105th GREY CUP GAME THREAD! / November 26th / Calgary vs. Toronto

[paulwoods13]

Surely Collaros isn't expecting to see starter money from any CFL team after the way he looked this year on top of his injuries?

He could take a big pay cut and still get starter money. He was reportedly making $540k. There's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that he is expecting starter money. I'm sure he has not last a scintilla of self-belief, despite being benched and fighting off injuries.

[AngeloV]

I really hope Collaros comes back to the Argos, whether they re-sign Ricky or not. I still think he has the qualities to be the top QB in the league. It should be noted, he never had the opportunity to play with the Cats after Austin removed himself as coach. The entire team picked up their game at that point, except ZC didn't get the opportunity to do so.

[Rich]

There's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that he is expecting starter money. I'm sure he has not last a scintilla of self-belief, despite being benched and fighting off injuries.

Then he's delusional. I see him signing for $200K plus incentives for starting.

[R.J]

Aside from Kavis in Montreal, I don't see any gm being dumb enough to hand Collaros starter's type money ($400k+ nowadays). $150-250k base plus incentives would be my guess.

[paulwoods13]

Then he's delusional. I see him signing for $200K plus incentives for starting.

I don't. Enough teams need a QB that someone will be willing to pay him based on his performance in 2014 and 2015. He won't make $540k, but I bet he ends up making more than $200 in base salary.

[Argo]

This is true for Manziel but definitely not for Kaepernick. First of all, Kaepernick has proven that he can play at an elite level in the NFL, and Manziel has proven nothing.The prospect of Kaepernick taking the helm of a Grey Cup winning offence under the guidance of Trestman (and Ray?) ought to intrigue any football fan in this city.

Secondly Manziel has serious character questions, but nobody questions Kaepernick's character. He is a hero to many people who know very little about football, and I would be willing to bet a large majority of Torontonians who know who he is have a positive impression of him. I think they would sell every ticket for every game in a week if they signed him, especially coming off the high of the Cup victory.

I agree.

[Argo57]

I don't. Enough teams need a QB that someone will be willing to pay him based on his performance in 2014 and 2015. He won't make $540k, but I bet he ends up making more than $200 in base salary.

I agree, $250-$300k would be my guess for Collaros next season.
I would expect Popp to act quickly on one of the free agent QB’s that are available as I think Ray will call it a career.

[AngeloV]

I agree, $250-$300k would be my guess for Collaros next season.
I would expect Popp to act quickly on one of the free agent QB’s that are available as I think Ray will call it a career.

If Ray calls it a career I would have no issue paying ZC $400k. IMO, he is an elite QB that was in a bad situation this year. If Ray decides to come back, I would try and sell ZC on a similar type deal that Ottawa gave to Harris, paying him starters cash in season 2.

[jerrym]

Please no Manziel or Kappernick. Love 'em or hate 'em, those two generate too much controversy and the risk of the Argos locker room imploding is far too high.

This is true for Manziel but definitely not for Kaepernick. First of all, Kaepernick has proven that he can play at an elite level in the NFL, and Manziel has proven nothing.The prospect of Kaepernick taking the helm of a Grey Cup winning offence under the guidance of Trestman (and Ray?) ought to intrigue any football fan in this city.

Secondly Manziel has serious character questions, but nobody questions Kaepernick's character. He is a hero to many people who know very little about football, and I would be willing to bet a large majority of Torontonians who know who he is have a positive impression of him. I think they would sell every ticket for every game in a week if they signed him, especially coming off the high of the Cup victory.

I agree that Manziel is too controversial, has proved nothing in terms of pro football, and would probably drive away some female fans because of his domestic abuse charges.
On the other hand Kaepernick has shown he can play at the highest level, has shown he is very mobile which is a big asset in 3 down football, and is viewed very favourably by many fans in Canada. However, he has a $30 million dollar lawsuit that alleges that the NFL owners colluded to deny him employment. I suspect his lawyers would advise him to not come to the CFL for what is a relatively small salary in comparison when it could result in career ending injury or a poor season as he adapts to a different game. The NFL owners would then use this to argue they cut him because he wasn't good enough. So I don't see him coming north unless he has managed his previous millions in salary poorly and is desperate to earn some money.

[Argo57]

If Ray calls it a career I would have no issue paying ZC $400k. IMO, he is an elite QB that was in a bad situation this year. If Ray decides to come back, I would try and sell ZC on a similar type deal that Ottawa gave to Harris, paying him starters cash in season 2.

Collaros would thrive in Toronto working with Trestman.

[ArgoGabe22]

I agree that Manziel is too controversial, has proved nothing in terms of pro football, and would probably drive away some female fans because of his domestic abuse charges.

I'm not so sure. Manziel would get hype for the first week and everyone will soon forget. How many players with a criminal past playing in the CFL today? How many people have turned away from it because of them?

[Argo]

I'm not so sure. Manziel would get hype for the first week and everyone will soon forget. How many players with a criminal past playing in the CFL today? How many people have turned away from it because of them?

Just the other day, the domestic assault charge against Manziel was dropped, IIRC.

[jerrym]

I'm not so sure. Manziel would get hype for the first week and everyone will soon forget. How many players with a criminal past playing in the CFL today? How many people have turned away from it because of them?

I am not so sure that in the current environment where men are being fired for sexual assault cases that are involved far less violence than is alleged with Manziel's domestic abuse case, that this is necessarily what is likely to happen. Being accused of "kidnapping, beating and threatening to kill" hardly sound minor to me, especially when his girlfriend claims the beating left her deaf in one ear. The district attorney was extremely lenient in letting him off with a misdemeanour charge that was waived after a year of good behaviour. He said/she said is not looked at the same way as even a year ago. He has also attempted suicide and had to go through alcohol/drug rehab. What are the repercussions if a team signs him to a team's reputation and something along these lines occurs up here?

Johnny Manziel's 2-year-old assault case is now a thing of the past, court records show.
This month, records show, a judge dismissed a misdemeanor assault charge against the former Texas A&M quarterback and Heisman Trophy winner.
Manziel was accused of kidnapping, beating and threatening to kill his ex-girlfriend in January 2016. The ex said the alleged abuse, during a fight over another woman, left her deaf in one ear.

The maximum punishment for a conviction on the misdemeanor charge would have been a year in jail and a $4,000 fine.
But Manziel reached an agreement last year with the Dallas County district attorney's office to get his misdemeanor assault charge dismissed if he agreed to a set of conditions that included rehab and anger management help.
It appears he's completed those requirements. The charge was dismissed this month, records show.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/news...arge-dismissed

Other high-profile incidents included:
--One month after he was drafted with the 22nd overall pick, Manziel was photographed swigging champagne as he floated on an inflatable white swan in a nightclub's pool in Austin, Texas. It was the first of many photos of Manziel that went viral on social media, but this one was the most memorable for being both bizarre and brash.
--Before training camp opened in 2014, a clearly intoxicated Manziel was photographed talking into a money phone, and the Browns were disturbed by an image of him holding a rolled up dollar bill in a Las Vegas bathroom.
--During his second exhibition game, Manziel flipped his middle finger toward Washington's sideline as he jogged back to the huddle following an incomplete pass. Manziel was fined $12,000 by the NFL for the profane gesture.
--Manziel skipped Cleveland's walk-through practice and a medical treatment before the team flew to Baltimore for the 2014 season finale. The Browns didn't know where he was and had to send security personnel to his downtown apartment to wake him.
--The late nights caught up with Manziel, who entered Caron, a rehab facility in Pennsylvania specializing in treatment for alcohol and drug abuse. Manziel spent 73 days under care, and upon his release, he apologized to the Browns and their fans and vowed to “regain everyone's trust and respect. I understand that will take time and will only happen through what I do and not what I say.”

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-johnny-manziel-police-report-20160204-story.html

[rdavies]

I'd rather have Manziel, Kaepernick's identity politics make a mockery of the Diversity is Strength program.

[ArgoGabe22]

I am not so sure that in the current environment where men are being fired for sexual assault cases that are involved far less violence than is alleged with Manziel's domestic abuse case, that this is necessarily what is likely to happen. Being accused of "kidnapping, beating and threatening to kill" hardly sound minor to me, especially when his girlfriend claims the beating left her deaf in one ear. The district attorney was extremely lenient in letting him off with a misdemeanour charge that was waived after a year of good behaviour. He said/she said is not looked at the same way as even a year ago. He has also attempted suicide and had to go through alcohol/drug rehab. What are the repercussions if a team signs him to a team's reputation and something along these lines occurs up here?



https://www.dallasnews.com/news/news...arge-dismissed






http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-johnny-manziel-police-report-20160204-story.html

I'm still waiting for the anti-Chris Rainey fan club. So I'm not sure Manziel will ever get one. And if he does, Rainey should have one as well. Go after one, can't ignore the others IMO.

[Golden Fleece]

Can we split the "who's going to be QB next year" discussion into its own thread? It's starting to detract from the "basking in the Grey Cup glow" direction it was entrenched in.

[Rich]

Kaepernick's identity politics make a mockery of the Diversity is Strength program.

I think it's exactly the opposite. The guy essentially sacrificed his career in order to draw attention to racial inequality. He would be the absolute perfect poster boy for the Diversity is Strength program.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I don't think he sacrificed his career. He just wasn't good enough. If a team thought they could win with him, he would have been signed. NFL teams have put up with way more nonsense than simply kneeling for the anthem.

[AngeloV]

I don't think he sacrificed his career. He just wasn't good enough. If a team thought they could win with him, he would have been signed. NFL teams have put up with way more nonsense than simply kneeling for the anthem.

I disagree. He was better than more than half the starting QB's in the NFL in 2016. Not his fault the team overall sucked.

As far as sacrificing his career, I don't believe he knew he was doing that. He may have just been naive in thinking all those old, white rich dudes that own teams would not black ball him for this.

[paulwoods13]

There's no doubt in my mind that, while Kaepernick is not all-pro-calibre, he's easily better than a lot of stiffs playing QB in the NFL, and he has been blackballed for his political views. I'd love to see him in the CFL both for his playing abilities and the statement it would make, but he's made clear that's not gonna happen.