How Would Moving the CFL Season Earlier Affect the Argos?

[argolio]

I presume you meant third week of October?

[paulwoods13]

I presume you meant third week of October?

Oops, yes.

[Shatto]

Ambrosie has talked about the need to increase the league's revenues. There are primarily 3 ways to accomplish that--1) increase attendance at games, 2) more and richer sponsorships and 3) increase TV revenues. The easiest quick fix should be number 3, but since the league is locked in to TSN for a few more years, this is not as easy as it should be.

If the schedule was moved up 2 weeks and one bye week was eliminated, the GC could be played in the first week of November. This would allow the vast amount of the schedule to be available to the NFL before the NFL begins its regular schedule. The question is whether it is worth it or not. For a couple of million, not likely but for 20 million plus, it starts to become a more attractive proposition for the league. For 40 million or more it becomes a no brainer for the league.

Personally, I'd prefer to see the schedule stay as it is. Even at my age I still enjoy going to games in the cold weather. However, it could all depend on how serious the NFL is in purchasing US rights to our games and how much they are willing to pay. We will see.

[rdavies]

How much money should the league take to move the season? There is a lot more to this than meets the eye in regards to the fallout from moving the season over accepting more revenue.

[rdavies]

Why it might not make sense for the CFL to dump ESPN for a return to NFL Network
A return to NFLN wouldn't necessarily be all positive for the CFL.
Andrew Bucholtz awfulannouncing.com 11/28/2017

New CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie made international headlines Friday for comments to Tim Baines of The Ottawa Sun that the league could sign a deal with NFL Network following its “soon-to-expire” deal with ESPN (which is curious in its own right, as when that deal was signed in 2014, it was expected to run through 2018), and that it might move its season several weeks earlier to make that deal happen. Moving the season is one thing, and it has pros and cons (pros include that it would definitely help a U.S. TV deal regardless of who the deal’s with, and that there would likely be better weather and better attendance for late-season games and the playoffs, cons include that an earlier season would go head-to-head with the NHL playoffs and would require a shifting of the CFL offseason calendar and possibly the draft, and that the playoffs and the Grey Cup would then overlap with the MLB postseason and World Series), but proclaiming that the league could head back to NFL Network instead of ESPN for its U.S. TV deal is perhaps an even more notable comment, and not necessarily a good one.

It’s not clear when this would happen; the initial deal was said to be for five years, and Ambrosie’s comments about changing the schedule in 2019 would fit with that, but the “soon-to-expire” language suggests this may be a discussion about 2018. But the CFL has seen games aired on NFL Network before, in 2010 and 2011, but only one game was aired a week that first year. Two a week were aired in the early part of the 2011 season, but the coverage was more limited once the NFL season began. In 2012, the CFL sent games to streaming service ESPN3 and also signed a 14-game deal with NBCSN, and the ESPN/NBCSN split continued in 2013. In 2014, ESPN struck an exclusive five-year deal with the CFL to show all its games across linear and digital (ESPN3) platforms, and that’s had plenty of benefits for the league; CFL fans in the U.S. have been able to access every game through at least ESPN3 (which is available through a variety of streaming apps, but does require a cable subscription), with plenty of games shown on ESPN’s linear platforms as well. And there are benefits to the consistency there; back in the days of the ESPN/NBCSN split, fans had to regularly consult broadcasting schedules to figure out which streaming service to access games on, as the NBCSN games weren’t on ESPN3. Going back to NFL Network entirely or a NFLN/ESPN split could make that more difficult; NFL Network does have its own streaming options, but they tend not to be as solid as the BAMTech-powered ESPN3.

The big problem with a NFL Network partnership is NFLN’s limited space. They have one channel to air content on, and while that will be fine for CFL games in the summer when there’s next to nothing happening on the NFL front, it’s hard to see them ditching NFL analysis for CFL games during the season. By contrast, ESPN has four primary channels that have been used for CFL games, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNews and ESPNU, and they throw CFL games on some of those lower ones in particular even during the fall. (Especially on Sundays, when they don’t have college football and don’t want to put their own programming up against the NFL.) And ESPN has zero limitations in terms of what they can put on ESPN3, especially when it comes to outside-produced content like the CFL (CFL feeds come from Canada’s TSN, which is 20 per cent owned by ESPN, so ESPN isn’t directly paying production costs.) And they might be even more interested in CFL rights now that they’re planning to launch an OTT subscription service with some of the content not on traditional ESPN networks.

The NFL doesn’t appear to have any sort of equivalent option to at least stream every CFL game, unless that gets rolled into a product like GamePass (which people are already complaining about in non-U.S. markets). It’s possible there could be a NFLN/ESPN3 split, but that provides less incentive for both networks to really promote the product if they have to share it, and it brings up the aforementioned confusion about where particular games are. And NFLN certainly doesn’t have more reach than ESPN or ESPN2; as per Nielsen’s August cable coverage estimates, ESPN and ESPN2 were both in over 87,000 homes, with ESPNU in 66,000, NFLN in 69,000 and ESPNews not rated. So NFLN is slightly better than ESPNU and better than ESPNews, but a drop in exposure from ESPN and ESPN2. Oh, and even if the season was moved up several weeks, it seems pretty unlikely that the CFL playoffs and the Grey Cup are going to get any sort of play on NFLN in October. But they get consistent slots on ESPN’s lesser channels and do okay there.

Of course, it’s not all about the viewers. ESPN is believed to not be paying all that much for the CFL rights, and NFLN might offer more. Other U.S. companies could conceivably get involved too, perhaps even digitally-focused ones like Facebook, Amazon and Stadium that seem to be paying to stream just about anything. And the CFL has shown growing synergy with the NFL on several fronts, from cross-border officiating training and replay discussions to joint minor football initiatives in Canada, and there could be value for both leagues in aligning further. And at the very least, it seems positive for the CFL that there are different U.S. broadcasters who might be interested in carrying its games. And that’s likely even more the case if the CFL season is moved earlier in the year, and thus overlaps with the NFL and college football less. But the league should realize that its current U.S. broadcast situation is pretty good, all things considered. And it shouldn’t jump to abandon ESPN for NFLN unless the benefits outweigh the costs.

[Tobythor]

I think starting the week after Victoria Day (unofficial start to summer) would be a good idea, go with the whole kickoff to Summer idea. Get people out to games before the summer holidays get started. Maybe the league could have some sort of reserve fund (from t.v deal money) which could be given out to a team if they have a drop in attendance due to a Stanley Cup run in their city.

[AngeloV]

I think starting the week after Victoria Day (unofficial start to summer) would be a good idea, go with the whole kickoff to Summer idea. Get people out to games before the summer holidays get started. Maybe the league could have some sort of reserve fund (from t.v deal money) which could be given out to a team if they have a drop in attendance due to a Stanley Cup run in their city.

If the NHL playoffs ended in May like they used to, I would be OK with a June 1 start, but as I've said, it could be suicidal going up against NHL playoffs and Memorial cup at the start of the season. For starters, the league would get next to no National media coverage until after the Stanley Cup has been presented. You think the Argos are a forgotten commodity now, just think how that would affect them in this scenario.

This whole thing about colder weather keeping away fans to me is bs. Should be noted the biggest crowd to ever see the Argos play at BMO was also the coldest day in which they have played a game there. It was also pretty cold for the TFC game last week. I didn't see their fans stay away and complain that the season ends too late.

[rdavies]

This whole thing about colder weather keeping away fans to me is bs. Should be noted the biggest crowd to ever see the Argos play at BMO was also the coldest day in which they have played a game there. It was also pretty cold for the TFC game last week. I didn't see their fans stay away and complain that the season ends too late.

That might pertain more to the Western fans. I wonder (don't know) if the playoff ticket pricing may be a little out of whack. I always seem to notice the Bomber attendance going down (could be wrong), when for a big game it should be going up.

[AngeloV]

That might pertain more to the Western fans. I wonder (don't know) if the playoff ticket pricing may be a little out of whack. I always seem to notice the Bomber attendance going down (could be wrong), when for a big game it should be going up.

Another reason to buy Argos season tickets. A playoff ticket is included in the package.

[Mightygoose]

I posted this on the main CFL boards too.

I had a conversation with someone at my church who went to his first Argos game with his son at the home finale and followed up by going to the Eastern final. Had a great time and his kids (ages 9 and 7) and are now bugging him to get seasons next year....he may do a 2-3 games instead due to time restraints but overall some new fans for the Argos were created.

I will say they're right in the demographics the Argos and the league in general are trying to get in the doors. In other words not old and white!
We brought up the schedule and told him the league was considering moving it up for the playoffs/Grey Cup in October. His thoughts?.....it's a no brainer to make this move.

Though a sample size much like this site, curious view from one outside of the core.

[rdavies]

I'm one who doesn't want to see the schedule moved but the more I look at the empirical evidence the more I think maybe it should be moved. The problem is similar to some of the issues the league has with TSN. Although you might be achieving short term gain, in the long term will it be good for the league. To move the season almost into a spring/summer league like the USFL better take a boatload of long term cash right now.

Hindsight being 20/20, the NHL took more cash (double) in an ill advised deal with SportsChannel America instead of staying with ESPN and getting more exposure. They've never recovered from that.

[paulwoods13]

I don't know what evidence people are looking at to show support for attendance decreasing in the fall. The year-by-year charts at https://stats.cfldb.ca/ seems to show ups and downs throughout each season, with ups as likely to come at the end as anywhere else in the schedule. There are nifty graphics showing week-by-week attendance each season as a line graph, and in looking at the past 10 years I see no evidence that attendance declines consistently in October/November.

[Topshelf]

I've always subscribed to the notion that toronto hits the cottage on summer weekends, even though none of my friends have cottages.

But, having froze in that eastern final, I'm thinking why not play in the summer?

Have the grey cup thanksgiving sunday, make it a uniquely canadian tradition like nfl thanksgiving thursday.

If there's some nfl network tv money, even better.

[Shatto]

Football is a game that can be played in all weathers. Most CFL fans are well versed in how to dress for cold and snowy weather. Most fans I know, would rather watch a game in snowy, -5C weather than in warmer but rainy weather, especially if it is a heavy downpour. It is also part of the CFL history and tradition, that some of the most memorable games have been played in cold snowy conditions. Talking to fans, who watched this year's GC, not one person complained about the cold --after all we are Canadians!

There are some sports which can't be played in cold/snowy conditions --obviously baseball is a good example. With the upcoming MLS championship game, possibly being played in sub zero temperatures and perhaps even heavy snow, one has to ask what is their league thinking, having a schedule that allows the game to be played in these conditions. If one appreciates soccer and the skill set required of top players, playing in very cold and heavy snow conditions is a definite detriment. For the sake of the game, perhaps MLS should either move to a summer/fall schedule or have the championship game played, where there is a better guarantee of good weather.

Sorry, got off topic---hopefully the CFL schedule will continue to retain the GC on the traditional late November date. If the money enticement is so large that the league can't refuse to turn it down, then I guess we may see the GC scheduled as early as October. But IMO it would be a pity, if that does come to pass.

[Argobouncer]

Football is a game that can be played in all weathers. Most CFL fans are well versed in how to dress for cold and snowy weather. Most fans I know, would rather watch a game in snowy, -5C weather than in warmer but rainy weather, especially if it is a heavy downpour. It is also part of the CFL history and tradition, that some of the most memorable games have been played in cold snowy conditions. Talking to fans, who watched this year's GC, not one person complained about the cold --after all we are Canadians!

There are some sports which can't be played in cold/snowy conditions --obviously baseball is a good example. With the upcoming MLS championship game, possibly being played in sub zero temperatures and perhaps even heavy snow, one has to ask what is their league thinking, having a schedule that allows the game to be played in these conditions. If one appreciates soccer and the skill set required of top players, playing in very cold and heavy snow conditions is a definite detriment. For the sake of the game, perhaps MLS should either move to a summer/fall schedule or have the championship game played, where there is a better guarantee of good weather.

Sorry, got off topic---hopefully the CFL schedule will continue to retain the GC on the traditional late November date. If the money enticement is so large that the league can't refuse to turn it down, then I guess we may see the GC scheduled as early as October. But IMO it would be a pity, if that does come to pass.

MLS schedule started March 3 & ends Dec. 9 this year. The schedule is so long they are already taking advantage of the best weather Toronto can offer. Really they take 3 winter months off then start again - ridiculously long schedule & not really appropriate outdoors even in Toronto. Montreal & Vancouver use their domes when needed & I guess Toronto FC can & has too at Rogers Centre - but hasn't for playoff games. Will be wintry this year.

I think ideally the CFL should move the season up 2 weeks to take advantage of better weather esp. on the prairies. The Grey Cup has been played mid Nov before - most recently 2003 on Nov. 16

[AngeloV]

I think ideally the CFL should move the season up 2 weeks to take advantage of better weather esp. on the prairies. The Grey Cup has been played mid Nov before - most recently 2003 on Nov. 16

And this I have no problem with. I've stated that the league should make the final weekend of October the end of the regular season and market the first 3 weekends in November as Grey Cup month. Under this scenario, the Grey cup would be played anywhere from Nov 15-23. This would avoid the start of the season going against Stanley Cup playoffs, and the Grey Cup playoffs going against the world series. The CFL can't afford to have little to no media coverage over these time periods.

[Will]

Just to be clear--my spreadsheet is in relation to the Argos only. I don't have any intention of doing an analysis for all league teams.

[argos1873]

And this I have no problem with. I've stated that the league should make the final weekend of October the end of the regular season and market the first 3 weekends in November as Grey Cup month. Under this scenario, the Grey cup would be played anywhere from Nov 15-23. This would avoid the start of the season going against Stanley Cup playoffs, and the Grey Cup playoffs going against the world series. The CFL can't afford to have little to no media coverage over these time periods.

I also wouldn't have a problem with 1-3 weeks of moving up the schedule. 2 weeks would probably be the optimum of that situation. You avoid the end of the Stanley Cup playoffs that would conflict with 3 weeks, and have a slightly better chance at better weather than at 1 week. But maybe I'm in the minority, but I love these fairly rare snowbowl games. I think they make the game more interesting. The bitter cold on the other hand, that's probably not good for anyone or anything.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

It is December 10 and I am watching Buffalo and Indy playing in conditions that make the Grey Cup look like it was played in the Bahamas. Maybe the NFL should consider moving their schedule up as well? For me I say leave the schedule alone. Weather is and always has been part of the game. Hike up your skirts ladies and play on.

[Ron]

For me I say leave the schedule alone. Weather is and always has been part of the game. Hike up your skirts ladies and play on.

The heck with the NFL. Do we need Soccer fans calling out CFL fans for being pussies? lol They play in the cold and damp of spring to a fortnight before Christmas