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  1. #41
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    Fall attendance is also helped by summer being over. People like to rag on the whole "Cottage" excuse ... but it's a real thing. There's a reason you never hear the NFL talk silly things about starting 3 months earlier.

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    Strange, the Jays are not effected by people at a cottage weekend games in the summer. They still draw better than mid-week.

    It's not like the entire GTA empties out on weekends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    The owners. Plus he's trying to sell it to the fans so if he comes back later and says we decided to 'only' move it up 3 weeks it comes off better.
    So this idea did not come from ownership but is just Ambrosie's idea? If so, good luck to him getting it approved without an eight-figure annual payoff.
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  4. #44
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    If we wait, global warming will solve the temperature problem in November.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrym View Post
    If we wait, global warming will solve the temperature problem in November.
    Of course if that's true, we'll be playing in desert like conditions in June. Geez the CFL just can't catch a break!

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    Where does logic lead on this? I'm not advocating the following, simply observing what's inside Pandora's box...

    The CFL season begins at the end of March and ends the weekend before Labour Day. De facto it becomes the North American Spring-Summer B League to the NFL. The two leagues better formalize player transfer at seasons' beginning and end. (Perhaps CFL player rights' become tradeable between NFL teams.) The CFL gets not an eight figure but a nine figure television contract because now the American couch potato can literally watch pro ball the entire calendar year. The Grey Cup sees viewership figures in the low tens of millions across North America every August. The CFL's survival is assured, but it fundamentally becomes an adjunct of the NFL. Slowly pressure mounts to eliminate rule differences between the leagues...

    Again, I don't want this. But if we're already talking about a five week change you can be damned sure these ideas have been discussed privately.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tau Ceti View Post
    Where does logic lead on this? I'm not advocating the following, simply observing what's inside Pandora's box...

    The CFL season begins at the end of March and ends the weekend before Labour Day. De facto it becomes the North American Spring-Summer B League to the NFL. The two leagues better formalize player transfer at seasons' beginning and end. (Perhaps CFL player rights' become tradeable between NFL teams.) The CFL gets not an eight figure but a nine figure television contract because now the American couch potato can literally watch pro ball the entire calendar year. The Grey Cup sees viewership figures in the low tens of millions across North America every August. The CFL's survival is assured, but it fundamentally becomes an adjunct of the NFL. Slowly pressure mounts to eliminate rule differences between the leagues...

    Again, I don't want this. But if we're already talking about a five week change you can be damned sure these ideas have been discussed privately.
    The CFL season will never begin in March. Even if so, the American couch potato will never latch on. They never latched on to WAFL, NFL Europe, Europa League or whatever they called that stuff. There's no US money in it, and there never will be. Its time to realize that. Sure, get whatever US money you can, but don't focus on that, because its not happening. BTW the day the CFL becomes a de facto NFL minor league, and they start changing rules to match is the day I never tune into another CFL game again. In my humble opinion, the less NFL like the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by argos1873 View Post
    The CFL season will never begin in March. Even if so, the American couch potato will never latch on. They never latched on to WAFL, NFL Europe, Europa League or whatever they called that stuff. There's no US money in it, and there never will be. Its time to realize that. Sure, get whatever US money you can, but don't focus on that, because its not happening. BTW the day the CFL becomes a de facto NFL minor league, and they start changing rules to match is the day I never tune into another CFL game again. In my humble opinion, the less NFL like the better.
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    Actually, contrary to popular opinion, you will find CFL attendance as a whole actually declines in October and November (specifically in the west). Look at CFL database attendance figures. Without question its because of the colder weather. With the exception of the GC playoff games in the CFL seem to have a problem with attendance - the west final this year (battle of alberta) was 6k shy of a sellout yet the regular season tilt between these two teams drew more at McMahon in August. Last regular season game in Calgary was played under snow and, while paid atrendance was 25k or so, the stadium was more than half empty. I dont agree with moving the season back as more as the new CFL commish suggests but think somewhere in the middle would do the league good. Have the regular start mid June and have the grey cup in the first or second week of november the latest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruro View Post
    Actually, contrary to popular opinion, you will find CFL attendance as a whole actually declines in October and November (specifically in the west). Look at CFL database attendance figures. Without question its because of the colder weather. With the exception of the GC playoff games in the CFL seem to have a problem with attendance - the west final this year (battle of alberta) was 6k shy of a sellout yet the regular season tilt between these two teams drew more at McMahon in August. Last regular season game in Calgary was played under snow and, while paid atrendance was 25k or so, the stadium was more than half empty. I dont agree with moving the season back as more as the new CFL commish suggests but think somewhere in the middle would do the league good. Have the regular start mid June and have the grey cup in the first or second week of november the latest.
    McMahon has been half empty all season, so probably not the greatest example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruro View Post
    Have the regular start mid June and have the grey cup in the first or second week of november the latest.
    The ostensible reason to move the schedule up is to make more summer programming available for NFL Network, presumably with significant revenues attached. Moving the season up two weeks would hardly achieve that goal. Ambrosie was talking about playing Grey Cup in the third weekend of November which, combined with the extra bye week, would mean moving it up six weeks.
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    I presume you meant third week of October?

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    Ambrosie has talked about the need to increase the league's revenues. There are primarily 3 ways to accomplish that--1) increase attendance at games, 2) more and richer sponsorships and 3) increase TV revenues. The easiest quick fix should be number 3, but since the league is locked in to TSN for a few more years, this is not as easy as it should be.

    If the schedule was moved up 2 weeks and one bye week was eliminated, the GC could be played in the first week of November. This would allow the vast amount of the schedule to be available to the NFL before the NFL begins its regular schedule. The question is whether it is worth it or not. For a couple of million, not likely but for 20 million plus, it starts to become a more attractive proposition for the league. For 40 million or more it becomes a no brainer for the league.

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the schedule stay as it is. Even at my age I still enjoy going to games in the cold weather. However, it could all depend on how serious the NFL is in purchasing US rights to our games and how much they are willing to pay. We will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by argos1873 View Post
    BTW the day the CFL becomes a de facto NFL minor league, and they start changing rules to match is the day I never tune into another CFL game again. In my humble opinion, the less NFL like the better.
    Yup

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    Quote Originally Posted by argos1873 View Post
    The CFL season will never begin in March. Even if so, the American couch potato will never latch on. They never latched on to WAFL, NFL Europe, Europa League or whatever they called that stuff. There's no US money in it, and there never will be. Its time to realize that. Sure, get whatever US money you can, but don't focus on that, because its not happening. BTW the day the CFL becomes a de facto NFL minor league, and they start changing rules to match is the day I never tune into another CFL game again. In my humble opinion, the less NFL like the better.
    Amen.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by argolio View Post
    I presume you meant third week of October?
    Oops, yes.
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  17. #57
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    How much money should the league take to move the season? There is a lot more to this than meets the eye in regards to the fallout from moving the season over accepting more revenue.

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    Why it might not make sense for the CFL to dump ESPN for a return to NFL Network
    A return to NFLN wouldn't necessarily be all positive for the CFL.
    Andrew Bucholtz awfulannouncing.com 11/28/2017

    New CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie made international headlines Friday for comments to Tim Baines of The Ottawa Sun that the league could sign a deal with NFL Network following its “soon-to-expire” deal with ESPN (which is curious in its own right, as when that deal was signed in 2014, it was expected to run through 2018), and that it might move its season several weeks earlier to make that deal happen. Moving the season is one thing, and it has pros and cons (pros include that it would definitely help a U.S. TV deal regardless of who the deal’s with, and that there would likely be better weather and better attendance for late-season games and the playoffs, cons include that an earlier season would go head-to-head with the NHL playoffs and would require a shifting of the CFL offseason calendar and possibly the draft, and that the playoffs and the Grey Cup would then overlap with the MLB postseason and World Series), but proclaiming that the league could head back to NFL Network instead of ESPN for its U.S. TV deal is perhaps an even more notable comment, and not necessarily a good one.

    It’s not clear when this would happen; the initial deal was said to be for five years, and Ambrosie’s comments about changing the schedule in 2019 would fit with that, but the “soon-to-expire” language suggests this may be a discussion about 2018. But the CFL has seen games aired on NFL Network before, in 2010 and 2011, but only one game was aired a week that first year. Two a week were aired in the early part of the 2011 season, but the coverage was more limited once the NFL season began. In 2012, the CFL sent games to streaming service ESPN3 and also signed a 14-game deal with NBCSN, and the ESPN/NBCSN split continued in 2013. In 2014, ESPN struck an exclusive five-year deal with the CFL to show all its games across linear and digital (ESPN3) platforms, and that’s had plenty of benefits for the league; CFL fans in the U.S. have been able to access every game through at least ESPN3 (which is available through a variety of streaming apps, but does require a cable subscription), with plenty of games shown on ESPN’s linear platforms as well. And there are benefits to the consistency there; back in the days of the ESPN/NBCSN split, fans had to regularly consult broadcasting schedules to figure out which streaming service to access games on, as the NBCSN games weren’t on ESPN3. Going back to NFL Network entirely or a NFLN/ESPN split could make that more difficult; NFL Network does have its own streaming options, but they tend not to be as solid as the BAMTech-powered ESPN3.

    The big problem with a NFL Network partnership is NFLN’s limited space. They have one channel to air content on, and while that will be fine for CFL games in the summer when there’s next to nothing happening on the NFL front, it’s hard to see them ditching NFL analysis for CFL games during the season. By contrast, ESPN has four primary channels that have been used for CFL games, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNews and ESPNU, and they throw CFL games on some of those lower ones in particular even during the fall. (Especially on Sundays, when they don’t have college football and don’t want to put their own programming up against the NFL.) And ESPN has zero limitations in terms of what they can put on ESPN3, especially when it comes to outside-produced content like the CFL (CFL feeds come from Canada’s TSN, which is 20 per cent owned by ESPN, so ESPN isn’t directly paying production costs.) And they might be even more interested in CFL rights now that they’re planning to launch an OTT subscription service with some of the content not on traditional ESPN networks.

    The NFL doesn’t appear to have any sort of equivalent option to at least stream every CFL game, unless that gets rolled into a product like GamePass (which people are already complaining about in non-U.S. markets). It’s possible there could be a NFLN/ESPN3 split, but that provides less incentive for both networks to really promote the product if they have to share it, and it brings up the aforementioned confusion about where particular games are. And NFLN certainly doesn’t have more reach than ESPN or ESPN2; as per Nielsen’s August cable coverage estimates, ESPN and ESPN2 were both in over 87,000 homes, with ESPNU in 66,000, NFLN in 69,000 and ESPNews not rated. So NFLN is slightly better than ESPNU and better than ESPNews, but a drop in exposure from ESPN and ESPN2. Oh, and even if the season was moved up several weeks, it seems pretty unlikely that the CFL playoffs and the Grey Cup are going to get any sort of play on NFLN in October. But they get consistent slots on ESPN’s lesser channels and do okay there.

    Of course, it’s not all about the viewers. ESPN is believed to not be paying all that much for the CFL rights, and NFLN might offer more. Other U.S. companies could conceivably get involved too, perhaps even digitally-focused ones like Facebook, Amazon and Stadium that seem to be paying to stream just about anything. And the CFL has shown growing synergy with the NFL on several fronts, from cross-border officiating training and replay discussions to joint minor football initiatives in Canada, and there could be value for both leagues in aligning further. And at the very least, it seems positive for the CFL that there are different U.S. broadcasters who might be interested in carrying its games. And that’s likely even more the case if the CFL season is moved earlier in the year, and thus overlaps with the NFL and college football less. But the league should realize that its current U.S. broadcast situation is pretty good, all things considered. And it shouldn’t jump to abandon ESPN for NFLN unless the benefits outweigh the costs.

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    I think starting the week after Victoria Day (unofficial start to summer) would be a good idea, go with the whole kickoff to Summer idea. Get people out to games before the summer holidays get started. Maybe the league could have some sort of reserve fund (from t.v deal money) which could be given out to a team if they have a drop in attendance due to a Stanley Cup run in their city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobythor View Post
    I think starting the week after Victoria Day (unofficial start to summer) would be a good idea, go with the whole kickoff to Summer idea. Get people out to games before the summer holidays get started. Maybe the league could have some sort of reserve fund (from t.v deal money) which could be given out to a team if they have a drop in attendance due to a Stanley Cup run in their city.
    If the NHL playoffs ended in May like they used to, I would be OK with a June 1 start, but as I've said, it could be suicidal going up against NHL playoffs and Memorial cup at the start of the season. For starters, the league would get next to no National media coverage until after the Stanley Cup has been presented. You think the Argos are a forgotten commodity now, just think how that would affect them in this scenario.

    This whole thing about colder weather keeping away fans to me is bs. Should be noted the biggest crowd to ever see the Argos play at BMO was also the coldest day in which they have played a game there. It was also pretty cold for the TFC game last week. I didn't see their fans stay away and complain that the season ends too late.
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