Before the year ends I have to thank Jim and Scott

["Issues"Mcgee]

When you consider the Grey Cup can and has been won by teams with a 50 per cent regular season record, 45 and 48 isn't that far off from greatness. Record does not tell the whole story. Do you consider 14-3-1 to be good enough? It wasn't good enough for the Stampeders to win it all.

[Jon Gonzo]

When you consider the Grey Cup can and has been won by teams with a 50 per cent regular season record, 45 and 48 isn't that far off from greatness. Record does not tell the whole story. Do you consider 14-3-1 to be good enough? It wasn't good enough for the Stampeders to win it all.

One cannot base success on unlikely probabilities. For one it doesn't sell tickets and more often -- it doesn't often pan out -- even in the unusual CFL. The right move was made. It was time to move on, as the records indicate. It wasn't good enough, and take away the peaks and valleys, and it still wasn't good enough. The right moves were made, even if the method of change scared the hell out of us.

[paulwoods13]

Obie won one Grey Cup in eight years, suffered three horrendous losses in Eastern Finals at home, and got to one Grey Cup that could be considered a surprise (1987). Was he that much more successful than Milanovich, with his one GC in five years, one horrendous loss in an Eastern Final at home and getting to one Grey Cup that could be considered a surprise (2012)? I would rate them as fairly similar in terms of success as Argo coaches. Obie didn't have to deal with stadium or ownership issues, but did manage a better regular-season record and five first-place finishes (not that those mean much if you don't at least get to the Grey Cup).

[Will]

It was time for both of them to go after last season.

Barker did find talent, but had trouble replacing departed personnel in certain areas (DB's in particular).

I can see similarities between O'Billovich's reign and Milanovich's. Both one Grey Cups early in their tenure and were not able to follow it up. I hope the same doesn't end up applying to Trestman.

[R.J]

Barker and Milanovich finished 9-20 in their last 29 games, and were mediocre at best during their tenure. I really don't understand how a 45 & 48 winning percentage is not that far from greatness. Greatness is the two Doug Flutie led seasons, how low the standards have fallen.

[argolio]

I will always put the Willy trade on ownership. I think there was 0% chance Barker would have pulled that trigger without being directed from above to pay any price for any available QB in a desperate attempt to get the host city to the Grey Cup.

Having said that, we got the joy of 2017 after the disappointment of 2016, so I can't argue with how things worked out.

[paulwoods13]

Well said, "Issues." Some posters here treat Milanovich like the second coming of Bart Andrus.

[AngeloV]

Well said, "Issues." Some posters here treat Milanovich like the second coming of Bart Andrus.

X2

[paulwoods13]

Suggesting that cutting four receivers at once was an act of desperation is wildly off base, unless it's desperation to expect players to follow team rules and come to work every day. Cutting three starters, without adequate replacements at hand, is not an act a coach "desperate" to make the playoffs would make. The two moves -- Willy trade and the receiver purge -- are completely separate. Both moves can be criticized (and have been, until the cows come home, on this forum), but to link them as equal measures of desperation is simply wrong.

[Rich]

Suggesting that cutting four receivers at once was an act of desperation is wildly off base

Milanovich was a dead man walking and he knew it. He had lost the room so badly that the ironically-named "Big Three" was like a second centre of power, at one point reportedly back-talking the coach during team meetings. And it could never have reached that point without at least the tacit support of some other players. Dumping the big three was never gonna cure that cancer, which became painfully obvious when the entire team quit on the coach for the last few games.

[Jon Gonzo]

Milanovich was a dead man walking and he knew it. He had lost the room so badly that the ironically-named "Big Three" was like a second centre of power, at one point reportedly back-talking the coach during team meetings. And it could never have reached that point without at least the tacit support of some other players. Dumping the big three was never gonna cure that cancer, which became painfully obvious when the entire team quit on the coach for the last few games.

Yes, and a Coach cannot lose the room or he's dead. To leave this on a positive note; our current administration doesn't get to that point. 1) Popp doesn't bring em in 2) Trestman is able to get through to them 3) or, after making a drastic cut (not 4 in the same position group) Trestman gets the attention of his team and it works.

The DESPERATE moves made by our last administration failed, and squandered a season. These things happen, even to good people. They predictably were let go and this is documented in history. It happened for a reason.

I for one am not going to make excuses for a past administration just because I backed them at one time or another. What on earth does that achieve? Alternate reality and football fans taking cues from a crazy-assed President. My god! (;

Mistakes are mistakes, and people (super-fans or not) should be able to come to grips with them. Especially after how we were all graced and gifted with the ultimate improvement of last season.

Nothing good can be said about how that last administration ended it's run. Plenty of good can be harvested out of how it started.

[ArgoZ]

They were both desperation moves. A desperate attempt to win back the locker room (even if some of those recievers deserved it), failed. It made it even worse actually. Then Milo goes on record to say that our back up/rookie/special teamers are going to do a better job. Unfair to expect that and to no surprise, they couldn't get open and were hardly thrown to.

I had no problem with Willy. However, to expect any new quarterback to turn around your disfunctional team, that late in the season, is also unfair and not realistic.

I admire and appreciate the job Barker and Milanovich did. To face so much adversity and win a cup was awesome. Unfortunately, good things are hard to make last and they made mistakes, followed by bigger mistakes instead of good solutions and so their time here was done. Give them credit for what they accomplished, but let's not defend the disaster they created.

[Jon Gonzo]

They were both desperation moves. A desperate attempt to win back the locker room (even if some of those recievers deserved it), failed. It made it even worse actually. Then Milo goes on record to say that our back up/rookie/special teamers are going to do a better job. Unfair to expect that and to no surprise, they couldn't get open and were hardly thrown to.

I had no problem with Willy. However, to expect any new quarterback to turn around your disfunctional team, that late in the season, is also unfair and not realistic.

I admire and appreciate the job Barker and Milanovich did. To face so much adversity and win a cup was awesome. Unfortunately, good things are hard to make last and they made mistakes, followed by bigger mistakes instead of good solutions and so their time here was done. Give them credit for what they accomplished, but let's not defend the disaster they created.

Yes they were. It was the beginning of the end, and it had to end at that point. Nothing good came from it. Great post. I couldn't have put it better myself.

[ArgoGabe22]

Don't think the release of the Big 3 plus Bates was just because of lack of production/effort. Pretty sure it's all related to one particular incident that had occurred after the Montreal game. That's not an act of desperation, that's a coach/GM doing their IMO.

[argolio]

Remember the narrative being floated here a year ago that the Willy trade and the receiver massacre would set back the team years? Good times!

[Jon Gonzo]

Remember the narrative being floated here a year ago that the Willy trade and the receiver massacre would set back the team years? Good times!

and then they hired Popp and Trestman. Whole new ballgame and a completely different narrative. The moves did not help the team; it set them back, and that's how those moves should be (and were) judged.

[ArgoGabe22]

Remember the narrative being floated here a year ago that the Willy trade and the receiver massacre would set back the team years? Good times!

I even heard that losing the #1 pick will set the team back for years. There are other ways to build a team!

[Jon Gonzo]

So you believe trading the first pick for Drew Willy should be applauded, or just met with indifference? I was raised to believe that Canadian talent was at the top of the list of priorities. A first pick, is always the best chance at the best pick.

[ArgoGabe22]

So you believe trading the first pick for Drew Willy should be applauded, or just met with indifference? I was raised to believe that Canadian talent was at the top of the list of priorities. A first pick, is always the best chance at the best pick.

Not applauded but trading a draft pick (in any trade) is not as catastrophic as some make it. I'm not talking about the trade itself but this belief that losing one draft pick will and can set a team back, especially when there are more import starters. Canadian talent is obviously key to this league but if you're able to acquire other pieces through CFL free agency (Finley), NFL cuts (Ball, Laing) picking up released players (Woods, C.Vaughn), free agent camps, trades (Edwards, Green, Franklin) and are able to make up a good roster, you can easily ease the "damage" caused by trading away the top pick.

I don't think anyone is saying how the team is set back by trading a top CDN prospect Mason Woods.

[Jon Gonzo]

Not applauded but trading a draft pick (in any trade) is not as catastrophic as some make it. I'm not talking about the trade itself but this belief that losing one draft pick will and can set a team back, especially when there are more import starters. Canadian talent is obviously key to this league but if you're able to acquire other pieces through CFL free agency (Finley), NFL cuts (Ball, Laing) picking up released players (Woods, C.Vaughn), free agent camps, trades (Edwards, Green, Franklin) and are able to make up a good roster, you can easily ease the "damage" caused by trading away the top pick.

I don't think anyone is saying how the team is set back by trading a top CDN prospect Mason Woods.

Hmmm. Right. No one is complaining, like they were when they traded a 1st overall for Willy. Wonder why that is? I suggest the narrative is more that some hesitate to admit when they are wrong and look for ways to justify this into perpetuity. This is the only spot where I have read people attempting to justify the final mistakes of the Milo-Barker combo.

It is a unique place. Indeed.