Before the year ends I have to thank Jim and Scott

[Ron]

Remember the narrative being floated here a year ago that the Willy trade and the receiver massacre would set back the team years? Good times!

In hindsight ... there should not be anyone upset in any way at the Willy trade right now. In hindsight that trade set in motion the wheels that led to a GC championship in 2017.

At the time it looked not that great to most. But that's why actions are judged well after the fact and not during short term emotional responses.

[AngeloV]

In hindsight ... there should not be anyone upset in any way at the Willy trade right now. In hindsight that trade set in motion the wheels that led to a GC championship in 2017.

At the time it looked not that great to most. But that's why actions are judged well after the fact and not during short term emotional responses.

I was basically voted off the island when I said the trade would not have any impact going forward.

[Will]

The 2016 season was lost well prior to the 4 receivers being released.

[R.J]

The 2016 season was lost well prior to the 4 receivers being released.

And prior to the Willy trade as well IMO.

Either way desperation moves by individuals who thankfully are no longer with us.

[paulwoods13]

This forum and Twitter were full of "that trade sets the Argos back years." And look what happened. One year later -- the shortest possible span -- the team is champions and has lots of depth across the lineup, including young NATs. So clearly the trade did not set the Argos back any more than a few games, if that. (I'm well known to believe that going with Lefevour would not have been any better than going with Willy, but even if he did eke out a few more wins down the stretch, does anyone think we would have won anything of consequence in 2016 if that trade had not been made? It would sure be a stretch for all those who dump on Milanovich to suggest we might not have "blown the season" if only we had kept Heath and stayed away from Willy.)

As for dumping the Big Three not curing cancer, maybe so. But the fact is, our locker room was the exact opposite of cancer-ridden in 2017, and IMO a big part of that is we didn't have those guys in it. Call it desperation or whatever you want to call it, but IMO it is impossible to make a valid case we would have been better off in 2016 or 2017 of they had not been cut.

[OV Argo]

IF the Argos had kept Barker & Millanovich around last year, and they had Drew Willy as their pencilled-in QB, and no SJ Green or Armanti Edwards in the receiving corps - my guess is they would have went 1 & 17 or possibly 0 & 18.

[Neely2005]

IF the Argos had kept Barker & Millanovich around last year, and they had Drew Willy as their pencilled-in QB, and no SJ Green or Armanti Edwards in the receiving corps - my guess is they would have went 1 & 17 or possibly 0 & 18.

The scary thing is they wanted Willy to be our starter in 2017.

[ArgoGabe22]

The scary thing is they wanted Willy to be our starter in 2017.

I don’t believe that for a second and I’m not really sure this was ever publicly said.

[AngeloV]

The scary thing is they wanted Willy to be our starter in 2017.

They had to say that. A team needs to show confidence in all their players publicly. None of us know what the real feelings were.

[argolio]

This forum and Twitter were full of "that trade sets the Argos back years." And look what happened. One year later -- the shortest possible span -- the team is champions and has lots of depth across the lineup, including young NATs. So clearly the trade did not set the Argos back any more than a few games, if that. (I'm well known to believe that going with Lefevour would not have been any better than going with Willy, but even if he did eke out a few more wins down the stretch, does anyone think we would have won anything of consequence in 2016 if that trade had not been made? It would sure be a stretch for all those who dump on Milanovich to suggest we might not have "blown the season" if only we had kept Heath and stayed away from Willy.)

As for dumping the Big Three not curing cancer, maybe so. But the fact is, our locker room was the exact opposite of cancer-ridden in 2017, and IMO a big part of that is we didn't have those guys in it. Call it desperation or whatever you want to call it, but IMO it is impossible to make a valid case we would have been better off in 2016 or 2017 of they had not been cut.

Well said. It wasn't "set back the team years.....unless they hire Popp and Trestman." There was no qualifier. It was all-out the sky is falling.

And I don't see anyone here defending the Willy trade. It wasn't a good trade. Just not a fatal one long-term.

The scary thing is they wanted Willy to be our starter in 2017.

Obviously we'll never know now, but I think a healthy Ray would have won the job.

[ArgoGabe22]

Look at how the Argos find their Canadian talent. Not just via the draft.

More money is spent on regional combines like the one Gabriel attended. A lot of sleeper picks are going further than can’t miss 1st Rd guys. It’s not exactly what pick you have but who you pick. Didn’t the Saints trade away all their picks for Ricky Williams and the team who acquired them drafted no real contributors.

The draft is important but saying one trade will set the franchise back is a bit of a stretch. Unless the Argos literally gave away everyone in a fire sale.

[Jon Gonzo]

Look at how the Argos find their Canadian talent. Not just via the draft.

More money is spent on regional combines like the one Gabriel attended. A lot of sleeper picks are going further than can’t miss 1st Rd guys. It’s not exactly what pick you have but who you pick. Didn’t the Saints trade away all their picks for Ricky Williams and the team who acquired them drafted no real contributors.

The draft is important but saying one trade will set the franchise back is a bit of a stretch. Unless the Argos literally gave away everyone in a fire sale.

Sure that happens in all sports, but the feeder system is relative. You want the first crack in any draft. Better odds. Your own choice of who you want, who you like.

No draft is perfect. But no team is perfect either. That filters down, if you spend money in drafting and developing. You didn't do the ranking for me. I honestly would like to see how you rank that out.

For me, it's simple, you need to fill a roster with Canadians. And if you want ratio-busters, more than not you want a couple picks in the top 20 picks. We ALL know that in the CFL you are only as good as your Canadians. I say the CFL Draft is the most important talent stream in that list.

I rank them like this; 1) CFL Draft 2) Free Agency Camps --- as this is a (low) salary cap league AND then 3) CFL Free Agency 4) Trades

And there is no doubt that CFL teams place a high priority on it. If the CFL Draft is important, then so is a first pick.

[ArgoGabe22]

Sure that happens in all sports, but the feeder system is relative. You want the first crack in any draft. Better odds. Your own choice of who you want, who you like.

No draft is perfect. But no team is perfect either. That filters down, if you spend money in drafting and developing. You didn't do the ranking for me. I honestly would like to see how you rank that out.

For me, it's simple, you need to fill a roster with Canadians. And if you want ratio-busters, more than not you want a couple picks in the top 20 picks. We ALL know that in the CFL you are only as good as your Canadians. I say the CFL Draft is the most important talent stream in that list.

I rank them like this; 1) CFL Draft 2) Free Agency Camps --- as this is a (low) salary cap league AND then 3) CFL Free Agency 4) Trades

And there is no doubt that CFL teams place a high priority on it. If the CFL Draft is important, then so is a first pick.

I don't think I really have a ranking. It really depends on what you can get and for how much. I think it needs to and can be a pretty balanced combination but you'll obviously have more signings coming in via free agent camps and CFL free agency than via trades. But making one good trade could be a better move than 10 free agent signings. I just think one bad trade can be hypothetically evened out or erased by another form of transaction. I'd take Woods, Green, Vaughn, Laing, Ball, over a 1st Rd Pick any day. Having 2 players stick on your roster from a draft class is a success. Why I don't think it can be easily ranked and why I don't buy the whole "set the team back" stance.

[Jon Gonzo]

I don't think I really have a ranking. It really depends on what you can get and for how much. I think it needs to and can be a pretty balanced combination but you'll obviously have more signings coming in via free agent camps and CFL free agency than via trades. But making one good trade could be a better move than 10 free agent signings. I just think one bad trade can be hypothetically evened out or erased by another form of transaction. I'd take Woods, Green, Vaughn, Laing, Ball, over a 1st Rd Pick any day. Having 2 players stick on your roster from a draft class is a success. Why I don't think it can be easily ranked and why I don't buy the whole "set the team back" stance.

I am not saying there isn't an exception to every rule. Hey, there are indeed times when trading that first pick for someone who can start...is a great decision.

And I agree that the wide spectrum all plays a part. I appreciate the reply. Known commodities are very valuable. I was a huge supporter of the decision to bring in Bear & Ball. However, I disagree with the characterization that people who were concerned with the direction of this team at the end of the Milo-Barker tandem; and with the tardiness of deciding on a new direction were "chicken little."

I simply don't think that's fair.

There was concern league wide, and it was for very good reason. The reason being, we don't want to see this venerable old franchise put to chance.

It worked out, thankfully, but the Argonauts were swimming in dangerous waters and we still can't be certain there wasn't any setbacks even though getting Popp-Trestman was a huge coup.

We shall see if this team has any more street cred come the early summer. All indications are that it does, but we still have to see. Hey, I want a sell out in Game #1, but I'd still call 19,000-20,000 progress.

[paulwoods13]

However, I disagree with the characterization that people who were concerned with the direction of this team at the end of the Milo-Barker tandem; and with the tardiness of deciding on a new direction were "chicken little."

I simply don't think that's fair.

When and where has anyone made such a characterization, then or now?

Some people did suggest, here and elsewhere, that trading the No. 1 pick and Heath for Willy had set the team back years. Others scoffed at the notion, and I think it's fair to say the latter were proven right. A team that won the very next championship, and came close to filling the stadium in the playoff game, could not be reasonably said to have been set back years (unless there's a whole lot of really terrible stuff happening under the surface that none of us has seen).

As for the draft, I have never seen anyone say it's not an important component of building a team. But clearly teams can have success even if they give up the No. 1 overall pick, clearly No. 1 overall picks (all draft picks, for that matter) are not guaranteed to develop into stars or even starters, and clearly no team has absolute control over its draft choices for more than two years under the current rules. So it's an important component, but IMO it's not nearly as important as some people suggested after the Willy trade.

[OV Argo]

Sure that happens in all sports, but the feeder system is relative. You want the first crack in any draft. Better odds. Your own choice of who you want, who you like.

No draft is perfect. But no team is perfect either. That filters down, if you spend money in drafting and developing. You didn't do the ranking for me. I honestly would like to see how you rank that out.

For me, it's simple, you need to fill a roster with Canadians. And if you want ratio-busters, more than not you want a couple picks in the top 20 picks. We ALL know that in the CFL you are only as good as your Canadians. I say the CFL Draft is the most important talent stream in that list.

I rank them like this; 1) CFL Draft 2) Free Agency Camps --- as this is a (low) salary cap league AND then 3) CFL Free Agency 4) Trades

And there is no doubt that CFL teams place a high priority on it. If the CFL Draft is important, then so is a first pick.

Agree with some of what you say, and the draft can be very important, AND a smart CFL GM pays good attention to and mines all 4 of the talent streams you mention; but IMO, my CFL rankings would be - and they are close:

1) - known CFL FAs (or guys cut from other teams for whatever reason - still FAs though) - see Bear Woods, Cassius Vaughn, Cleon Laing, Ball
2) - trades - see SJ Green, A. Edwards, Lemon (not to mention one Ricky Ray) - a trade or two to acquire a known CFL talent in areas of big need can put a team over the top often IMO
3) & 4) (tied) - the CFL draft AND young import /new to the CFL FAs (see Wilder, Wynn, Posey, Butler, etc.) - and a lot of times with the CFL now - this method can jump to #1 at times if you have smart & connected scouts (ex-NFL roster guys are often so prevalent now).

I'm a huge supporter of Canadian talent and love to see a team draft well and build there, but IMO as long as CFL team "thinkers" see only 7 Canadian starters - out of 24 starting jobs on O & D - it's pretty hard to argue that the draft & NI players are so key or most important (though it could be). The notion that "Canadian talent" is so important to the CFL or some automatic recipe for success is IMO more of an old shop-worn cliche. Though depth and special team roles that a lot of Canadian players often occupy can be quite important; it's still mostly impact players on O & D that make for a really strong team. This Argo GC team was hardly built into a winner by mostly strong drafting & Canadian talent.
Now the Ottawa Rough Riders of the 60s - with the likes of Russ Jackson, Ronnie Stewart, Whit Tucker, Mo Racine, Joe Poirier, Wayne Giardino, etc. as star/impact players in the line-up; or the 85 BC Lions GC team with a pile of CFL all--star Canadian players on their D (Klassen, Konar, Hebeler, Glenn Jackson, Nelson Martin), a strong Canadian O-line and an all-time great dual kicker in Lui P = that was a different story; and different CFL times

Again though - a smart CFL GM will look far & wide at all sources of talent; and over-emphasis on one stream or ignoring a couple of them will make building a solid, deep roster a lot tougher.

[AngeloV]

Look at how the Argos find their Canadian talent. Not just via the draft.

More money is spent on regional combines like the one Gabriel attended. A lot of sleeper picks are going further than can’t miss 1st Rd guys. It’s not exactly what pick you have but who you pick. Didn’t the Saints trade away all their picks for Ricky Williams and the team who acquired them drafted no real contributors.

The draft is important but saying one trade will set the franchise back is a bit of a stretch. Unless the Argos literally gave away everyone in a fire sale.

Quality Canadian players is huge in terms of having a top ranked team in the league, but I too don't put as much stock into the draft as some others do. By the time most of these players are making a serious impact, they are on their 2nd contract or beyond. Great to have players you drafted and developed, but with free agent turnover the way it has become, not nearly as necessary as it used to be.

[Jon Gonzo]

"Quality Canadian players is huge in terms of having a top ranked team in the league, but I too don't put as much stock into the draft as some others do. By the time most of these players are making a serious impact, they are on their 2nd contract or beyond. Great to have players you drafted and developed, but with free agent turnover the way it has become, not nearly as necessary as it used to be." (Angelo V)

Fair enough, but it is getting better along with the football programs in Canada & with more canucks getting scholarships down South. Last years draft had some immediate starter & part starter impact. That's huge.

[Will]

We are light-years from 2016!
We won a Grey Cup in 2017!
That coach-GM are not here anymore!
That QB isn't here anymore!
Those 4 receivers aren't here anymore!

WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING IT!

[doubleblue]

We are light-years from 2016!
We won a Grey Cup in 2017!
That coach-GM are not here anymore!
That QB isn't here anymore!
Those 4 receivers aren't here anymore!


WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING IT!

We do this every off season to keep our minds in the game.