Victor Butler

[Will]

FYI, he's written a fairly scathing letter that 3-Down Nation published. More or less, the same situation as Wilder.

[mchesher03]

Well this isn’t going according to plan here sheesh…

Anyhow, at times like this I like to think about how much fun this past season was if nothing else J

[Skilz]

I swear I could be a savant.

These were my EXACT words in the James Wilder thread on Page 3

2) Precedent- If I am correct Victor Butler is in Year 1 of his deal, having played 3-4 seasons for the Dallas Cowboys previously. His sack and QB pressure statistics were off the charts the first 6 weeks of the season. Then he got injured.

Wonder if he revolted like Wilder - would Popp agree? Likely not.

[OV Argo]

Have to wonder if some of these American players are either gullible or have been fed B$/lies by agents or CFL GMs who recruited them ? They think they can just show up for a cup of coffee for one season and then are free to go back to the NFL?

Some CFL GMs - and the Americans 1st / preferred attitude of some GOBs - are to blame for this fiasco we are seeing with Wilder & Butler, IMO. They want to treat the CFL as some joke /farm system for the NFL? - then go ahead and keep signing these guys and letting them out of their contracts; hey - why not let them go mid-season if an NFL team has need? - call the CFL guy up from the minors - and tough $hite for the CFL team, the league and the fans. After all - why stand in the way of the player's well being? They shouldn't have to commit to the dinky little CFL.

Very disappointed in both Wilder & Butler - and some of their both ignorant and ungrateful attitudes. Neither would have been playing pro football and making a living at it if not for the Argos & the CFL last season. Get lost - the both of you.

Keep signing these guys Popp - looks real good on the Argos & the CFL.

[Will]

He isn't wrong about the practice facility.

[Will]

My opinions on the Butler/Wilder situation are way over the map.

[dmont]

.

I see a lot of differences between this and the Wilder case. Wilder basically said "I looked at the situation and decided it wasnt for me. I understand I need to sit out a year, and I'm going to do it. Otherwise, nothing but good feelings for the Argonauts". Butler is bashing the team and how it operates, essentially telling other players not to come here. Forget negotiations, I say demand an immediate retraction or the Argos suspend him.

It's one thing if the playing conditions are harsh and the owners are making boat loads of money, but this is an organization that lost money last year and nobody's getting rich. I'm sorry it doesn't live up to his standards but that's been the reality of cfl football in toronto: surviving. I hope MLSE changes that.

The one point Butler might have is if his handshake agreement was made with the previous GM. Popp might do something like "I was unaware that the previous management had made this promise. I've since confirmed it and will honour the previous arrangement." That calms things down without setting a precedent.

In short, I see some grey area with Wilder (although I still disagree with his approach) but I Butler is very disappointing. If the Argos discipline him over this, they have my full support.

[R.J]

This could be a long off season, as I don't think it's only Argonaut players having these issues. He's right about Canadian's being paid more (sad that Canadian's are not only handing roster and starting spots, but also handed significantly more money just because of their passport), Butler's also right about the practice facility which is pathetic to say the least. I didn't know about the meals not being provided, that's messed up as there are quite a few CFL teams providing them now at some point on practice/walk through days. Add in that the League has told all the execs/football ops people not to pay out the bonuses, and this is not looking good right now.

Players need to get paid substantially more IMO, they need much better insurance benefits, I also think it's time to either lower or get rid of the ratio, bring down the roster size to 40 (+ 10 PR, then add 5 for NFL cuts), and maybe even look at taking out the starting QB's salary out of the SMS.

Butler signed the deal, but if he was told by Zimmerman or whomever, that he'd be free to go to the NFl in 2018, then I do think he should be let go. I wouldn't work for a company where my bosses don't keep their word.

[ArgoGabe22]

Not a fan of him saying he's being taken hostage, when there are actual hostages in the world. But, if he was promised to be released, then he probably should. Do I think he needed to write everything that he did publicly? No. And seeing that he lasted in the NFL for more years than the average player, i'm sure there are more CFL players who are currently playing (and not publicly complaining) and are under much more financial stress living in TO or Vancouver than he is. He also has quite the nice car, if its even his LOL.

[jerrym]

Part of this problem relates to the change in management. Barker let some players go the NFL after one year. As Butler's letter notes, he was signed after Popp became GM. IMO, if Barker promised Butler or Wider they could go to the NFL after one year, Popp should honour that as an Argo promise even if he wants to change his approach on two year contracts in the future. Failing to keep Barker's commitment, if that was what happened, could hurt recruiting in the future as players wonder if other promises will be upheld or if they will be ignored if management changes, as sooner or later it will.

Last February, I signed a one-year deal with the organization that included a team-held option. I made it painfully clear to the team that I was only interested in playing the 2017 season. I saw this as a great opportunity and possible chance to relaunch my NFL career where I had played 65 games over seven seasons. I was told that the Argos have a history of working with guys who have the opportunity to play down south, so if it did not pan out there was always a home for them back in Toronto.
I said: “If that’s the understanding, let’s do it.”
Shortly after joining the team, Jim Popp was hired on as general manager and Marc Trestman as the head coach.

http://3downnation.com/2018/01/26/vi...lding-hostage/

[Scooter McCray]

The Love Boat is taking on some water. It was all too good to be true. For guys like Wilder and Butler that have been professionals for a few years, their tactics for airing their concerns in the public leave alot to be desired. Why burn your bridges like this. They should understand that the Argos and any other CFL team would want them for more than one season, hence the 2 year standard entry contracts the CFL has. Likewise, if they do light up the league in year one of said contract, than I would hope the incumbent team does offer to improve the contract for the last year. Offer an extension as well, but if the player really wants to bolt after two years, sweeten the final year and leave it at that.

Otherwise there is no point to signing players like this who really think they are going to jump right back to the NFL immediately. It is counterproductive, and the PR in this situation is in no way beneficial to the team or the league. This just looks bad for the league. Unfortunately there is not a ton of money in the CFL. Football rosters are huge in comparison to other sports. All of the revenues are in Canadian dollars, and the TV deal while good, probably doesn't compensate the league based upon the viewership they deliver compared to the other sports. The other side of revenues being gate driven, the largest cities are the poorest draws in attendance and that doesn't help matters. The argument is like a dog chasing it's tail; "I don't like the CFL because it is minor league, they don't pay guys enough." Rather than this is good, entertaining football. I will go to some games, thereby filling team coffers and increase ability to recruit and retain top talent.

[OV Argo]

What type of CFL GM signs players who he knows are only interested in a one season / cup of coffee/ quick pay-cheque attitude and then adios? Nice way to build a team, huh? I guess the type of GM who believes getting some of these players is worth it cause it almost guarantees a big winning season and a very good chance at a GC ? Name me all the times that has happened.

The Argos were a .500 type team last season; and things gelled nicely for a play-off run; Victor Butler and James Wilder are both fine football players, and had some great moments for the Argos last season; but it's not like the team was getting a proven CFL superstar like a Doug Flutie. I'd suggest Wilder's 9 carries for 14 yards production in the GC game is easily replaceable; Butler didn't do much in that game either. They were both more like a few big, outstanding game type players and I don't think they respect or appreciate the CFL. I'll take the game that the likes of Declan Cross or Matt Black or Sean McEwen or Jermaine Gabriel or Llevi Noel brought in the GC / play-offs and their respect for the pro league in their own country.

Sick of over-rated, superior in their own minds American players bad-mouthing the CFL and the CFL GOB types who $uck up to them. And spouting cliched bull$hite they were told/sold - about a few Canadian O-linemen being over-paid in the CFL when the reality is that a majority of a CFL team's $MS is reserved for American players - QBs are the highest paid by far and star, vet starters make way more than average - and CFL GOBs reserve a majority or roster spots period, a huge majority of starting jobs (highest paid), and a monopoly of the highest paid jobs (QBs) for their favored American players.

Total garbage / B$ - makes me want to puke - that this league had the gall to once bill itself as "Radically Canadian" or wants to float "it's our game" type bull$hite.

"This town needs an enema" - said the Joker ;o) Please sign Johnny Football so we can all go - "golly gee, an all-American hero comes to our little old CFL; we're so fortunate".

[ArgoZ]

Welcome to the Argonauts, the NFL’s farm team! Sorry guys, but that guy (Barker) is gone. God forbid Popp is trying to build a winning franchise for us Argos fans. So just checking, that’s Posey, Wilder, and now Butler that want $200000 next year. Anyone else want to join in? I called it, I saw the signs of these egos on Twitter. OV covered all my points, way to much BS spewing from Butler than Wilder.

[argotom]

This has not been a good week for the team.
The public relations aspect has taken a hit.
Even though what's the old saying there is no such thing as bad PR as long as you stay relevant?

[Skilz]

This has not been a good week for the team.
The public relations aspect has taken a hit.
Even though what's the old saying there is no such thing as bad PR as long as you stay relevant?

Good or Bad. This two player "mutiny" will be the first great test of Popp's leadership..

Either you stem the flow with these two, or be prepared for the 15+ other Non-Imports to revolt god forbid after another good season...

I assure you that an Athlete not making "enough" money has never earned the collective sympathy of a City or fanbase. (see Jose Bautista's "$25 million demands" two seasons ago - Right, where is he at now?)

[argos1873]

I had to laugh when he implied that not being allowed to play in the NFL was and I quote "a crime against humanity". I'm laughing and shaking my head at the same time. I'd rather watch a team of guys who couldn't sack a bag of peanuts than this jackass. Beat it.

[argotom]

I had to laugh when he implied that not being allowed to play in the NFL was and I quote "a crime against humanity". I'm laughing and shaking my head at the same time. I'd rather watch a team of guys who couldn't sack a bag of peanuts than this jackass. Beat it.

He is right on about the practice facilities and the cost of living in the city.
Not to mention the paltry salary, also like Wilder's.

[RB957]

One thing the Argos do need to do, and it is alluded to in another post, is improve the conditions that the players work under. Their practice facilities have been a joke for a long time. I appreciate that no money was being spent when Braley owned the team because all he was doing was keeping the lights on, but MLSE has to make big improvements. And if it's true what Butler has posted... professional athletes shouldn't have breakfast deducted from their game cheques. That's just petty. Reminds me of the line in Moneyball about the Oakland Athletics charging players to get a pop from the vending machine in their clubhouse.

It is a given that the nature of the market here in Canada means that players won't make the same money as in the U.S. But they are still professional athletes and should be treated accordingly.

[gilthethrill]

Gee, looks like the Argos are the worst employers in the world.....no other CFL team seems to have these issues like Wilder and now Butler are causing.

[ArgoZ]

I had to laugh when he implied that not being allowed to play in the NFL was and I quote "a crime against humanity". I'm laughing and shaking my head at the same time. I'd rather watch a team of guys who couldn't sack a bag of peanuts than this jackass. Beat it.

ROTFL, good one. To think, this team wasn't even that great last year. Imagine if the actual great teams had to deal with this. Maybe some do, but at least it would be somewhat expected, not from a bunch of guys who were fortunate to win the Cup thanks to a fumble. These guys exhausted all there NFL options, now they want to leave because there’s “interest”. Finish your damn contract and then you’ll get the pay day. This is a no win for Popp. He releases them, they likely don’t make it, they come back to the highest bidder (not necessarily the Argos) or decide to retire. I’ve always said $ trumps everything and players are always out for themselves, but this is getting ridiculous.