Bill Manning Named New Argos President

[Shatto]

I must admit I have been underwhelmed by Manning's performance to date. It isn't one specific thing but rather what seems to be, a trend of questionable decisions and actions. Cancelling the tailgating, closing the upper east side and deciding not covering with acceptable tarping, holding the home exhibition game in Guelph on a mid week night, apparently no Town Hall meeting, no indication of any action to provide the team with acceptable training facility but most concerning is the seeming lack of timely communication to the fans and in particular the STH's.

However, to be fair, Manning is very early into his stewardship of the team and his decision to reduce ticket prices definitely deserves commendation. Perhaps, we should withhold judgement of Manning's performance until he has been given enough time to more fully demonstrate innovative and effective leadership. He should also be given kudos for allowing Popp and Trestman full freedom to run the team.

[AngeloV]

I must admit I have been underwhelmed by Manning's performance to date. It isn't one specific thing but rather what seems to be, a trend of questionable decisions and actions. Cancelling the tailgating, closing the upper east side and deciding not covering with acceptable tarping, holding the home exhibition game in Guelph on a mid week night, apparently no Town Hall meeting, no indication of any action to provide the team with acceptable training facility but most concerning is the seeming lack of timely communication to the fans and in particular the STH's.

However, to be fair, Manning is very early into his stewardship of the team and his decision to reduce ticket prices definitely deserves commendation. Perhaps, we should withhold judgement of Manning's performance until he has been given enough time to more fully demonstrate innovative and effective leadership. He should also be given kudos for allowing Popp and Trestman full freedom to run the team.

Very fair comment. I am in the same boat.

[Argo57]

I must admit I have been underwhelmed by Manning's performance to date. It isn't one specific thing but rather what seems to be, a trend of questionable decisions and actions. Cancelling the tailgating, closing the upper east side and deciding not covering with acceptable tarping, holding the home exhibition game in Guelph on a mid week night, apparently no Town Hall meeting, no indication of any action to provide the team with acceptable training facility but most concerning is the seeming lack of timely communication to the fans and in particular the STH's.

However, to be fair, Manning is very early into his stewardship of the team and his decision to reduce ticket prices definitely deserves commendation. Perhaps, we should withhold judgement of Manning's performance until he has been given enough time to more fully demonstrate innovative and effective leadership. He should also be given kudos for allowing Popp and Trestman full freedom to run the team.

Not overly impressed so far but ultimately time will tell.

[rdavies]

I think the criteria for me is at least equal treatment with regards to TFC. I refuse to believe this cannot be rebuilt in a market this size. I can't believe that there aren't 30k rebels in a market of at least 5 million who would not go against the conventional belief.

I have no clue how you tap that audience but if they can sell TFC surely to God they can sell this.

[RB957]

I was in Etobicoke today and did a slight detour to check out the team's facility at Don Bosco. Took a picture of the front of the building which has two Toronto Argonauts banners affixed to the wall. There was not much activity going on to suggest that it is being worked on as a permanent facility. There were young school kids using the field, which does not appear to be in any condition to be used by the team. So to me, it looks like once training camp breaks it will be a similar situation to last year for practices.

Attachment 911

[smokeslet'sgo]

I think the criteria for me is at least equal treatment with regards to TFC. I refuse to believe this cannot be rebuilt in a market this size. I can't believe that there aren't 30k rebels in a market of at least 5 million who would not go against the conventional belief.

I have no clue how you tap that audience but if they can sell TFC surely to God they can sell this.

They need to draw 4/10s of a percent of the GTA to sell out the stadium. I will never understand why this is so difficult, but apparently it is

[Stevoman]

I was in Etobicoke today and did a slight detour to check out the team's facility at Don Bosco. Took a picture of the front of the building which has two Toronto Argonauts banners affixed to the wall. There was not much activity going on to suggest that it is being worked on as a permanent facility. There were young school kids using the field, which does not appear to be in any condition to be used by the team. So to me, it looks like once training camp breaks it will be a similar situation to last year for practices.

Attachment 911

Could not see your photo but find your description to be depressing. Come on MLSE step up!!!!!

[rdavies]

Any discussion or possible contributing factors I could give would likely be taken as offensive to some here but the one I just can't understand is why some say they can't watch the CFL because it isn't the best. And yet, people will go watch TFC. The CFL is a helluva lot closer to the best than MLS is and yet they can get their message across to their fans. I better stop because this will go places where people can't have a civil discussion without being offended (which is too bad)

[smokeslet'sgo]

Any discussion or possible contributing factors I could give would likely be taken as offensive to some here but the one I just can't understand is why some say they can't watch the CFL because it isn't the best. And yet, people will go watch TFC. The CFL is a helluva lot closer to the best than MLS is and yet they can get their message across to their fans. I better stop because this will go places where people can't have a civil discussion without being offended (which is too bad)

How true is this. The CFL is the 2nd best football league in the world while there are several leagues above MLS. Also it seems only gridiron football gets this treatment. No one has an issue with Swedish/Russian hockey or Japanese/Latin baseball, but for some reason the NFL is sacred and is the only football league that's allowed to exist according to many small-minded folks.

[jerrym]

I must admit I have been underwhelmed by Manning's performance to date. It isn't one specific thing but rather what seems to be, a trend of questionable decisions and actions. Cancelling the tailgating, closing the upper east side and deciding not covering with acceptable tarping, holding the home exhibition game in Guelph on a mid week night, apparently no Town Hall meeting, no indication of any action to provide the team with acceptable training facility but most concerning is the seeming lack of timely communication to the fans and in particular the STH's.

However, to be fair, Manning is very early into his stewardship of the team and his decision to reduce ticket prices definitely deserves commendation. Perhaps, we should withhold judgement of Manning's performance until he has been given enough time to more fully demonstrate innovative and effective leadership. He should also be given kudos for allowing Popp and Trestman full freedom to run the team.

I'm also underwhelmed.

[paulwoods13]

How true is this. The CFL is the 2nd best football league in the world while there are several leagues above MLS. Also it seems only gridiron football gets this treatment. No one has an issue with Swedish/Russian hockey or Japanese/Latin baseball, but for some reason the NFL is sacred and is the only football league that's allowed to exist according to many small-minded folks.

The CFL is the second-best pro football league in the world, but the comparison to hockey and baseball isn't particularly relevant IMO. No one in this market has easy access to those leagues, and the same is essentially true in reverse. No one in Canada ever gives any thought to hockey leagues in Sweden and Russia because they are not accessible, and fans in Sweden and Russia go to games there because those leagues are essentially all that is available to them. NFL games are played in the same time zones as Canada, readily available on TV and relatively easy to attend in person for residents of much of this country.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

How true is this. The CFL is the 2nd best football league in the world while there are several leagues above MLS. Also it seems only gridiron football gets this treatment. No one has an issue with Swedish/Russian hockey or Japanese/Latin baseball, but for some reason the NFL is sacred and is the only football league that's allowed to exist according to many small-minded folks.

Perhaps Toronto has become too liberal of a city and the CFL is synonymous with Canadian/ American conservatism. I think another hard selling point is that the first 1/2 of the CFL season is largely irrelevant to the eventual winner of the Grey Cup. Whereas in bigger leagues every point matters because the ratio of teams that make the playoffs is less.

I would go one division and make each individual game worth more in the standings and market the CFL like the Big-12 or something. There's obviously interest in football south of the border and yet the CFL product-on-the-field is so similar with some unique aspects/ rules.

[ArgoGabe22]

Perhaps Toronto has become too liberal of a city and the CFL is synonymous with Canadian/ American conservatism. I think another hard selling point is that the first 1/2 of the CFL season is largely irrelevant to the eventual winner of the Grey Cup. Whereas in bigger leagues every point matters because the ratio of teams that make the playoffs is less.

Perhaps people just don't have any interest in football. Football really is a North American sport and more than 50% of Toronto's population are visible minorities, even higher in Markham and Brampton, who didn't grow up with football naturally. Of course there is still a chance of a football conversion to occur but its not getting any easier. Especially with HS teams folding. Then those who do follow football, tend to follow the NFL or at least pretend to with the jerseys they wear.

[Ron]

Any discussion or possible contributing factors I could give would likely be taken as offensive to some here but the one I just can't understand is why some say they can't watch the CFL because it isn't the best. And yet, people will go watch TFC. The CFL is a helluva lot closer to the best than MLS is and yet they can get their message across to their fans. I better stop because this will go places where people can't have a civil discussion without being offended (which is too bad)

The pool of soccer fans is vastly larger than the pool of football fans in the GTA. So while many soccer fans won't watch TFC (TV ratings prove that) for the same reasons many football fans won't watch the CFL ... the pool is large enough that they can fill BMO even with that sentiment.

[gilthethrill]

Any discussion or possible contributing factors I could give would likely be taken as offensive to some here but the one I just can't understand is why some say they can't watch the CFL because it isn't the best. And yet, people will go watch TFC. The CFL is a helluva lot closer to the best than MLS is and yet they can get their message across to their fans. I better stop because this will go places where people can't have a civil discussion without being offended (which is too bad)

Agreed, your last 2 posts are just spot on.

[Will]

Any discussion or possible contributing factors I could give would likely be taken as offensive to some here but the one I just can't understand is why some say they can't watch the CFL because it isn't the best. And yet, people will go watch TFC. The CFL is a helluva lot closer to the best than MLS is and yet they can get their message across to their fans. I better stop because this will go places where people can't have a civil discussion without being offended (which is too bad)

Geographical distance may play a factor. To go to Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit or Pittsburgh isn't difficult from the GTA. Getting to Manchester or Liverpool is however.

[paulwoods13]

Perhaps Toronto has become too liberal of a city and the CFL is synonymous with Canadian/ American conservatism. I think another hard selling point is that the first 1/2 of the CFL season is largely irrelevant to the eventual winner of the Grey Cup. Whereas in bigger leagues every point matters because the ratio of teams that make the playoffs is less.

I would go one division and make each individual game worth more in the standings and market the CFL like the Big-12 or something. There's obviously interest in football south of the border and yet the CFL product-on-the-field is so similar with some unique aspects/ rules.

I think Toronto (like the rest of Canada) is increasingly polarized politically, not more liberal. There's no centre any more, just hard right and hard left. If the PCs win the provincial election, I expect they will win some seats in Toronto (where Rob Ford won easily, and where the current mayor also identifies as small-c conservative).

I don't disagree with your point that many of the games really don't matter when so many teams make the playoffs, but I don't know if anyone stays away specifically for that reason. To me a much bigger issue is the fact that there are only nine teams. Every other pro league has more than 20 teams. The conferences in US college football also allow non-conference games, and the conferences are built in large part on longstanding regional rivalries that exist only in pockets in Canada. (For instance, Calgary and Edmonton dislike each other intensely -- not just in sports; Hamilton dislikes Toronto intensely, but Toronto simply doesn't care about Hamilton.) It gets old seeing the same teams so often, and it will be made even worse if Ambrosie's plan to reduce inter-conference games goes ahead. Much as I like the Argo-Ticat rivalry, I don't want to play the same team five or even six times a year including playoffs and preseason.

[rdavies]

No one in Canada ever gives any thought to hockey leagues in Sweden and Russia because they are not accessible, and fans in Sweden and Russia go to games there because those leagues are essentially all that is available to them.

I don't know if I'd say that. We are truly living in the global village now, if I want to watch the K, I can. Many Canadians are playing in the KHL, so I have a rooting interest there (as Bob McCown used to say) NHL hockey is readily available in Sweden via traditional carriage.

I am a fan of the Canadian national soccer teams. If they play and are televised in any way, conventional or streamed, I can find them. Even obscure stuff like U18 girls, it's all out there.

One of the future growth areas for the CFL is getting American fans to find players of NCAA teams they follow and to keep following their careers in the CFL.

Kodi is your friend : )

[rdavies]

I think Toronto (like the rest of Canada) is increasingly polarized politically, not more liberal. There's no centre any more, just hard right and hard left.

Very true, mores the pity.

[rdavies]

Geographical distance may play a factor. To go to Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit or Pittsburgh isn't difficult from the GTA. Getting to Manchester or Liverpool is however.

I don't think that's it, although it plays a part. In the US a football fan is generally a real football. They'll support HS, college and pro, not the same here.

Some of the issues are more cultural and while part may involve race and background, some of it may even be gender based.