Bill Manning Named New Argos President

[paulwoods13]

I don't know if I'd say that. We are truly living in the global village now, if I want to watch the K, I can. Many Canadians are playing in the KHL, so I have a rooting interest there (as Bob McCown used to say) NHL hockey is readily available in Sweden via traditional carriage.

I am a fan of the Canadian national soccer teams. If they play and are televised in any way, conventional or streamed, I can find them. Even obscure stuff like U18 girls, it's all out there.

One of the future growth areas for the CFL is getting American fans to find players of NCAA teams they follow and to keep following their careers in the CFL.

Kodi is your friend : )

There's no question that everything is available if you hunt for it, but I would wager that less than 1% of NHL fans spend any of their brain bandwidth pondering hockey overseas. Some might try to check on how their favourite team's prospects are doing over there from time to time, but very few actually try to watch games. I'd say zero per cent of hockey fans in this country have ever pondered whether the Swedish Elite League is on a par with the NHL, and I imagine the vast majority of hockey fans in Sweden accept the fact that the best Swedish players (and the best players from every country, with a handful of exceptions) are in the NHL.

[Shatto]

Interesting that when I phoned yesterday morning to speak to my personal rep to inquire about tickets for the exhibition game, I was informed by recorded message that everyone was busy with the STH'S refunds and they would call after 5pm. No call came after 5 and no call today. Maybe it is an anomaly but in the past, I have always received a call back from my personal rep within 1 to 2 hours. Hopefully this is not a harbinger of future public relations problems with MLSE now operating the Argos.

As for the exhibition game, the Argos do not handle requests for tickets. One must set up an account with Guelph Gryphons and order the tickets through them. Not really an issue with us, since one of my grandsons plays for the Gryphons but it does seem a little strange that the ordering of an Argo home game ticket has been off loaded to another organization. Perhaps it makes sense administratively, since the Gryphons know how many tickets they can sell. Not a big deal just a little strange.

Please excuse if I'm starting to sound like an old curmudgeon, complaining about everything but though change is always inevitable, the change should be perceived as an improvement to the system if at all possible.

[rdavies]

Please excuse if I'm starting to sound like an old curmudgeon, complaining about everything but though change is always inevitable, the change should be perceived as an improvement to the system if at all possible.

Nuthin' wrong with that : )

[ArgoRavi]

Any discussion or possible contributing factors I could give would likely be taken as offensive to some here but the one I just can't understand is why some say they can't watch the CFL because it isn't the best. And yet, people will go watch TFC. The CFL is a helluva lot closer to the best than MLS is and yet they can get their message across to their fans. I better stop because this will go places where people can't have a civil discussion without being offended (which is too bad)

I have heard TFC fans who bash the Argos/CFL justify their bashing by saying that the MLS is the best pro soccer league in North America whereas the CFL isn't. If TFC were playing in an all-Canadian league, I have no doubt that they would be lucky to average what the Argos are averaging.

[smokeslet'sgo]

I have heard TFC fans who bash the Argos/CFL justify their bashing by saying that the MLS is the best pro soccer league in North American whereas the CFL isn't. If TFC were playing in an all-Canadian league, I have no doubt that they would be lucky to average what the Argos are averaging.

I've always felt that the main reason the Argos don't do well in Toronto is because they only play Canadian teams. Toronto has this strange, bizarre obsession with being noticed and acknowledged by Americans. On TSN radio one of the hosts was absolutely losing his mind about how the Raptors weren't getting press and notice in the US. (But why would they care about covering a foreign team?) All the callers and texters were saying the same thing, I called in and said, "who cares what Americans think, this is our team". Toronto loves the "us against the world" but more specifically "us against the Yanks" thing. The Argos don't give Toronto that satisfaction of being noticed by and beating Americans. Toronto thinks they have nothing to prove to Calgary, Edmonton and Regina but they get their rocks off on beating New York, Chicago and LA. TFC gives them that while the Argos don't

[PullTogether73]

I have heard TFC fans who bash the Argos/CFL justify their bashing by saying that the MLS is the best pro soccer league in North American whereas the CFL isn't. If TFC were playing in an all-Canadian league, I have no doubt that they would be lucky to average what the Argos are averaging.

I've always felt that the main reason the Argos don't do well in Toronto is because they only play Canadian teams. Toronto has this strange, bizarre obsession with being noticed and acknowledged by Americans. On TSN radio one of the hosts was absolutely losing his mind about how the Raptors weren't getting press and notice in the US. (But why would they care about covering a foreign team?) All the callers and texters were saying the same thing, I called in and said, "who cares what Americans think, this is our team". Toronto loves the "us against the world" but more specifically "us against the Yanks" thing. The Argos don't give Toronto that satisfaction of being noticed by and beating Americans. Toronto thinks they have nothing to prove to Calgary, Edmonton and Regina but they get their rocks off on beating New York, Chicago and LA. TFC gives them that while the Argos don't

Completely agree with both of these comments.

[Jon Gonzo]

I've always felt that the main reason the Argos don't do well in Toronto is because they only play Canadian teams. Toronto has this strange, bizarre obsession with being noticed and acknowledged by Americans. On TSN radio one of the hosts was absolutely losing his mind about how the Raptors weren't getting press and notice in the US. (But why would they care about covering a foreign team?) All the callers and texters were saying the same thing, I called in and said, "who cares what Americans think, this is our team". Toronto loves the "us against the world" but more specifically "us against the Yanks" thing. The Argos don't give Toronto that satisfaction of being noticed by and beating Americans. Toronto thinks they have nothing to prove to Calgary, Edmonton and Regina but they get their rocks off on beating New York, Chicago and LA. TFC gives them that while the Argos don't

This is a compelling and astute observation on what makes the big smoke tick, IMO.

And thanks to RB957 for actually doing a drive by, for the update on Don Bosco.

I am further away from it, than may of you season ticket holders, but I too am underwhelmed.

My expectations are that both these franchises will be nurtured and treated with dignity and respect.

When I hear stories about the typical present day methods of business setting in; non-returned phone calls, bs and the phone (abitis) fence getting set up, it reminds me of what I've seen lately in modern business. The Reps are probably understaffed and disinterested. They have been tasked with an extra duty that they look at as a hindrance and a nuisance.

I don't think this serves the Argos well, if this indeed is the case.

[Neely2005]

I've always felt that the main reason the Argos don't do well in Toronto is because they only play Canadian teams. Toronto has this strange, bizarre obsession with being noticed and acknowledged by Americans. On TSN radio one of the hosts was absolutely losing his mind about how the Raptors weren't getting press and notice in the US. (But why would they care about covering a foreign team?) All the callers and texters were saying the same thing, I called in and said, "who cares what Americans think, this is our team". Toronto loves the "us against the world" but more specifically "us against the Yanks" thing. The Argos don't give Toronto that satisfaction of being noticed by and beating Americans. Toronto thinks they have nothing to prove to Calgary, Edmonton and Regina but they get their rocks off on beating New York, Chicago and LA. TFC gives them that while the Argos don't

The Raptors and the Blue Jays are the worst draws for US based teams home games. Americans have no interest in watching Canadian teams.

[rdavies]

I have heard TFC fans who bash the Argos/CFL justify their bashing by saying that the MLS is the best pro soccer league in North American whereas the CFL isn't. If TFC were playing in an all-Canadian league, I have no doubt that they would be lucky to average what the Argos are averaging.

MLS isn't the best soccer league in NA, Liga MX is. And just to throw another wrench into Toronto lap dogging to the US, aren't the Impact and Whitecaps the best soccer draws vs TFC. Surely to God the New York Red Bulls can't be (are they still in the league?)

This market is so screwed up it's no wonder the Argos can't figure it out.

And despite the projections, if it ever gets off the ground, we might find out how soccer will do in an all Canadian league.

[Shatto]

A recent article by Neil Davidson outlines the distress to TFC players for having to play on an inferior pitch, resulting in a new field having to be installed.

The installation is timed not to interfere with any TFC games but the timing results in the Argo home exhibition game being relocated to Guelph.

The article states, "TFC club officials" elected not to install the new surface in December, in case it might not take over the winter. "The TFC boss", Bill Manning, said life has been difficult for "his players" adding "our guys have been playing on a bit of a cow pasture"

All right, let's accept TFC soccer players have every right to want to play on a pristine surface and nobody should argue with that. But there does not appear to be any concern from management that the timing of the installation is causing disruption and inconvenience to Argo fans who now have to travel to Guelph on a work week night in order to see their team play. Also "our president" hasn't expressed any concerns that his football players are still going to have to play on the disgraceful north end zone surface.

TFC players and fans deserve to be treated in the best way possible but shouldn't Argo players and fans also deserve to be treated in the same manner. Why do I keep getting the feeling that the Argos and their fans are a bit of an after thought to Manning. Hopefully things will change in the near future but I'd like to see some indication that we are not second class citizens in this operation.

[argos1873]

A recent article by Neil Davidson outlines the distress to TFC players for having to play on an inferior pitch, resulting in a new field having to be installed.

The installation is timed not to interfere with any TFC games but the timing results in the Argo home exhibition game being relocated to Guelph.

The article states, "TFC club officials" elected not to install the new surface in December, in case it might not take over the winter. "The TFC boss", Bill Manning, said life has been difficult for "his players" adding "our guys have been playing on a bit of a cow pasture"

All right, let's accept TFC soccer players have every right to want to play on a pristine surface and nobody should argue with that. But there does not appear to be any concern from management that the timing of the installation is causing disruption and inconvenience to Argo fans who now have to travel to Guelph on a work week night in order to see their team play. Also "our president" hasn't expressed any concerns that his football players are still going to have to play on the disgraceful north end zone surface.

TFC players and fans deserve to be treated in the best way possible but shouldn't Argo players and fans also deserve to be treated in the same manner. Why do I keep getting the feeling that the Argos and their fans are a bit of an after thought to Manning. Hopefully things will change in the near future but I'd like to see some indication that we are not second class citizens in this operation.

Oh I'm sure after this little TFC mess gets cleared up it will be sure sailing for the Argos....that's what we've been saying for years now. After this it will be that. etc etc. Its a little tiresome now. I just want to watch some Argo football, and I really don't care anymore if there's 50,000 people watching or 5. But I'm wise enough to know that if there's only 5 I won't be watching Argos football for very long.

To recap, I just want to watch Argos football.

[gilthethrill]

Oh I'm sure after this little TFC mess gets cleared up it will be sure sailing for the Argos....that's what we've been saying for years now. After this it will be that. etc etc. Its a little tiresome now. I just want to watch some Argo football, and I really don't care anymore if there's 50,000 people watching or 5. But I'm wise enough to know that if there's only 5 I won't be watching Argos football for very long.

To recap, I just want to watch Argos football.

As long as the Argos share BMO with the soccer team...I mean club, the drama will always be present.

[Argo57]

I have heard TFC fans who bash the Argos/CFL justify their bashing by saying that the MLS is the best pro soccer league in North America whereas the CFL isn't. If TFC were playing in an all-Canadian league, I have no doubt that they would be lucky to average what the Argos are averaging.

I’ve said the same thing all along Ravi, just the fact American teams are part of MLS give them “major league” status with many in Toronto, kind of sad actually.

[gilthethrill]

I’ve said the same thing all along Ravi, just the fact American teams are part of MLS give them “major league” status with many in Toronto, kind of sad actually.

Back in the day when arena football was in town, I really thought the Phantoms would be a success at the gate for the reason you stated above. I was shocked when the team folded after a short period of time. Not sure how MLS has done it, but give them credit I suppose.

[rdavies]

A recent article by Neil Davidson outlines the distress to TFC players for having to play on an inferior pitch, resulting in a new field having to be installed.

Toronto FC tired of playing on ‘cow pasture’, installing new grass surface at BMO Field
Neil Davidson, Canadian Press May 5, 2018

Tired of playing on a “cow pasture,” Toronto FC plans to lay a new grass surface at BMO Field later this month.

The existing pitch has suffered through a long, severe winter. Its condition was not helped by an unforgiving, crowded schedule that saw Toronto begin CONCACAF Champions League play in late February.

Head groundskeeper Robert Heggie says the combination took its toll on the grass, which has been cutting up during play.

The new pitch will be installed after the May 26 Toronto FC 2 game. The senior side does not play at home again until June 13 when D.C. United visits. The ArgosCFL home opener is June 23.

“Basically after the resod, we have five weeks with one interruption,” said Heggie.

Toronto put in a new grass field after BMO Field hosted the Centennial Classic outdoor hockey game in January 2017.

After last December’s MLS Cup, club officials debated whether to install a new surface but elected to wait out of the concern that it might not take over the winter.

“We weren’t sure how far along and how good the surface would have been a few weeks later,” said Heggie. “So it was kind of the devil you know versus the devil you don’t.”

So the replacement grass pitch was left in Burford, Ont. The existing surface, meanwhile, took a beating from Mother Nature.

“Basically you saw a green field but it didn’t have any root structure,” said team president Bill Manning.

The TFC boss says it has made life difficult for his players.

“You have a player like Sebastian Giovinco and the analogy I use is he’s a Ferrari. But if you put a Ferrari on a muddy or shoddy field, it’s not going to drive so well.”

“In hindsight we put down the (new) turf right after MLS Cup (last December) … In some ways our guys have been playing on a little bit of a cow pasture,” he added. “And it’s been very difficult. Mother Nature was not kind to us this winter.”

The new grass will be the fifth in eight years at BMO Field, which has undergone considerable construction to expand and improve the original venue that opened in 2007 with artificial turf.

The plan from now on is to lay a new surface at the end of every season.

Toronto is also going to have another look at the kind of hybrid turf used by teams like the Green Bay Packers. With about five per cent of the surface synthetic, that type of surface offers more durability.

“As we go into the off-season, we may very well go that direction,” Manning said.

Even though BMO Field has underground heating, an inflatable cover and grow-lamps, that isn’t enough to preserve grass in the depth of a Toronto winter.

“That’s the burden of being a successful club. When you have an 11-month season, it’s tough,” said Heggie, who was named Sports Turf Manager of the Year in 2015 by Sports Turf Canada.

“We do our best,” he added. “Usually we pull off some miracles. But Mother Nature wins. She’s always the judge, jury and executioner at the end of the day.”

[rdavies]

The lines highlighted in the article above could become very important. What Manning said is well within the realms of possibility. It was originally considered an option but the present situation was deemed to be a more practical solution. If they are considering a hybrid surface, this constant replacement of turf, must be costing them money and the penny pinchers at MLSE are looking at something else.

Welcome to the world of GrassMaster.

[rdavies]

GrassMaster is a hybrid grass sports playing field surface composed of natural grass combined with artificial fibres. It was developed and patented by Desso Sports in 1993. This hybrid grass system is now developed by Tarkett Sports after a takeover of Desso Sports and has been rebranded since as GrassMaster. Tarkett Sports developed PlayMaster in 2016, a new lay-n-play hybrid grass solution.

[rdavies]

Where this could get interesting would be a Round 2 of the Argos/TFC sharing BMO saga. There are still a few goofs over on the TFC side who believe that GrassMaster is not a real turf field and that it would be a violation of their sacred turf. Having said that, the number who think that is far less now than it was and hopefully non existent now as they clue in to what GrassMaster actually is.

If this comes to pass and they try and blame the Argos, again, for wrecking their sacred turf, it should be known (contrary to popular belief) that soccer is rougher on turf (GrassMaster in this case) than football is. Logically the article posted above doesn't try and blame the Argos, in any way, because they weren't even playing when the turf was played on by TFC and not fully bedded in after a bad winter.



Tony Stones, Head Groundsman, Wembley Stadium (quoted on the damaging effects of soccer (he uses the word football), vs North American football, vs Rugby Union.

"We find most damage is caused by football (soccer) players digging in, turning quick, whereas an NFL game it's all solid, it's crunching together, Desso likes that, holds together well, it's when they're doing quick turns, your Rugby Union you get a bit of quick turning in that as well and a bit of scrummaging so you get a bit of mess from that but I'd say most damage comes from football (soccer)

It's warmups, football (soccer) warmups that are the worst thing, that's where we get the most damage from, especially the goalkeepers that will not use his portable goal, they insist on using his main goal that creates us some serious trouble"

[Joe Barnes]

Where this could get interesting would be a Round 2 of the Argos/TFC sharing BMO saga. There are still a few goofs over on the TFC side who believe that GrassMaster is not a real turf field and that it would be a violation of their sacred turf. Having said that, the number who think that is far less now than it was and hopefully non existent now as they clue in to what GrassMaster actually is.

If this comes to pass and they try and blame the Argos, again, for wrecking their sacred turf, it should be known (contrary to popular belief) that soccer is rougher on turf (GrassMaster in this case) than football is. Logically the article posted above doesn't try and blame the Argos, in any way, because they weren't even playing when the turf was played on by TFC and not fully bedded in after a bad winter.



Tony Stones, Head Groundsman, Wembley Stadium (quoted on the damaging effects of soccer (he uses the word football), vs North American football, vs Rugby Union.

"We find most damage is caused by football (soccer) players digging in, turning quick, whereas an NFL game it's all solid, it's crunching together, Desso likes that, holds together well, it's when they're doing quick turns, your Rugby Union you get a bit of quick turning in that as well and a bit of scrummaging so you get a bit of mess from that but I'd say most damage comes from football (soccer)

It's warmups, football (soccer) warmups that are the worst thing, that's where we get the most damage from, especially the goalkeepers that will not use his portable goal, they insist on using his main goal that creates us some serious trouble"

Thanks for posting all of this...interesting and informative stuff. Amazing how far this has come - a far cry from the old indoor/outdoor carpet at Exhibition Stadium! I'd say this is the route they should take at BMO. Expanding the turf surface to accommodate the CFL end zones while they are at it.

[BATKINSON001]

Thanks for posting all of this...interesting and informative stuff. Amazing how far this has come - a far cry from the old indoor/outdoor carpet at Exhibition Stadium! I'd say this is the route they should take at BMO. Expanding the turf surface to accommodate the CFL end zones while they are at it.

DOing that would be nice but then tfc fans would lose rows 1-5 on the south endzone seats and there would be no north seats at field level.

I personally would prefer this as it would leave the field CFL ready but TFC fans would go ape shit.