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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    With MLSE onboard, Calgary Flames and soon Vancouver Canucks, plus a massively profitable Riders team, watch for a move towards a more generous salary cap, or franchise player(S) tag. Cost savings owners like Brailey out. Balance of power shifting of CFL Board of Governors. Professionally run owners in.

    Professionally run franchisees are excellent capital allocators. They know that spending more could actually cost them less. Plus add economies of scale and the CFL teams could make money and actually become a return on their investment!

    Bell Media/Larry Taunebaun and now MLSE didn't outlay $20 million without a plan.
    I agree and think there is a new positive economy in the CFL indeed. No one should dismiss the presence of MLSE (and their media/TV influencers) and the very strong presence with Commissioner Randy Ambrosie, who seemingly can do no wrong.

    They can be and should be helping lead the CFL into a new era.

    This is an important negotiation and won't be without challenges, but IMHO, I see this as a watershed CBA for both sides. I am confident that new lucrative TV arrangements will ultimately bring the players improvements in player safety, work environs and remuneration.

    I see opportunity for improvements in our game.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    I disagree this will happen -- at least not without a work stoppage. The owners are in it to make money, not to give it away. I doubt the players will be united enough to force a much more generous CBA -- too many factions (vets/rookies/future players, NATs/INTs, high-paid/low-paid). There has been lots of infighting among players on Twitter this off-season. We all want players to make more money and stay in the CFL, but if they get a significantly larger piece of the pie, we will pay through higher ticket prices.
    Business success is often counterintuitive. I doubt very much the CBA would stand in the way of pay increases.

    Union Pearson Express is a perfect example. Introduced at high prices, and they lost a ton of money. Cut prices significantly and bingo, making money.
    “it's not the strongest who survive nor the most intelligent but the ones most adaptable to change.’ Charles Darwin

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    Business success is often counterintuitive. I doubt very much the CBA would stand in the way of pay increases.

    Union Pearson Express is a perfect example. Introduced at high pricing they were losing a ton of money. Cut prices significantly and bingo, making money.
    Public transit ticket prices do not have anything to do with labour relations (altho if UP Express is "making money," someone must be cooking the books or not accounting for a hell of a lot of investment and infrastructure).

    Regardless, you can take this to the bank: there will be no pay increases without a new CBA. That's how labour law works. The league is legally required to negotiate with the bargaining unit for the players, which is the CFLPA. It cannot change the terms of the CBA unilaterally. The pay scale is part of the CBA. Hence if there are to be increases to that pay scale (and I believe there will be, but not nearly on the level some wishful-thinking fans want), they will be negotiated with the CFLPA as part of the next CBA. There is no other way for it to happen, short of the union being decertified first.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Public transit ticket prices do not have anything to do with labour relations (altho if UP Express is "making money," someone must be cooking the books or not accounting for a hell of a lot of investment and infrastructure).

    Regardless, you can take this to the bank: there will be no pay increases without a new CBA. That's how labour law works. The league is legally required to negotiate with the bargaining unit for the players, which is the CFLPA. It cannot change the terms of the CBA unilaterally. The pay scale is part of the CBA. Hence if there are to be increases to that pay scale (and I believe there will be, but not nearly on the level some wishful-thinking fans want), they will be negotiated with the CFLPA as part of the next CBA. There is no other way for it to happen, short of the union being decertified first.
    Paul, thanks for the Finance 101 lesson. It's been decades since I took it.

    It's unlikely that I'll take your advice to the bank anytime soon. Conjecture, while interesting, has proven rather unpredictable on this site for years.

    I come here for timely CFL information, not guidance.
    “it's not the strongest who survive nor the most intelligent but the ones most adaptable to change.’ Charles Darwin

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    Excellent news! We have as much or more QB talent and flexibility than any team in the league. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Ray and Franklin lead us to multiple wins this season.

    As far as this talk of the possibility of the cap going up significantly, it's not possible without a huge increase in TV rights fees. Without that, where exactly is the money coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    Union Pearson Express is a perfect example. Introduced at high prices, and they lost a ton of money. Cut prices significantly and bingo, making money.
    UPE isn't making money. It's just losing less since they cut prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by argolio View Post
    Excellent news! We have as much or more QB talent and flexibility than any team in the league. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Ray and Franklin lead us to multiple wins this season.

    As far as this talk of the possibility of the cap going up significantly, it's not possible without a huge increase in TV rights fees. Without that, where exactly is the money coming from?

    UPE isn't making money. It's just losing less since they cut prices.
    That's a question for President Bill Manning. How do they fund the 2 big TFC contracts with a significant TV deal?
    “it's not the strongest who survive nor the most intelligent but the ones most adaptable to change.’ Charles Darwin

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    That's a question for President Bill Manning. How do they fund the 2 big TFC contracts with a significant TV deal?
    Simple answer? It's allowed in that league. The CFL still has to OK every single player contract that is signed before it becomes official. The league will not allow those types of contracts, therefore they will not happen.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    Paul, thanks for the Finance 101 lesson. It's been decades since I took it.

    It's unlikely that I'll take your advice to the bank anytime soon. Conjecture, while interesting, has proven rather unpredictable on this site for years.

    I come here for timely CFL information, not guidance.

    Well, it is uncanny how often the experts are wrong. I see no reason to assume the worst at this time.

    I'll take this off season over last -- any day, and twice on any given Sunday.

    Don't see the sky falling here. Not yet anyway.
    Hustle hit and never quit

  9. #29
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    Pretty sure the CFL brought in a new Commissioner and new ownership so that the status quo changes. Then again, we can stick with "the same/old same old" and hope for for the best, right AngeloV?
    “it's not the strongest who survive nor the most intelligent but the ones most adaptable to change.’ Charles Darwin

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    Pretty sure the CFL brought in a new Commissioner and new ownership so that the status quo changes. Then again, we can stick with "the same/old same old" and hope for for the best, right AngeloV?
    Sure, go back to the overspending from the early 90's and see the league almost fold again. I'd love to see guys in the league make more money, but to think they can pay millions to designated players is just not living in reality. But, I'll leave the banking knowledge to you.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

  11. #31
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    Very progressive.

    You're dealing with professional sports ownership now. The 90s were an aberration.

    Randy Ambrosie was brought in to try new, modern approaches. His job is to increase business value, fan experience and in doing so could bring CFL wages into the modern era.

    New ownership across the league should bring the CFL more In line with their other franchise businesses. I see MLSE and Toronto very important now. Higher wages should follow.
    Last edited by 1971GreyCup; 02-03-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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    Ricky is coming back to win his 5th GC - which i think would be the most all-time for QB of record in the big game?

    Damon Allen had 4 (2 with the Esks + BC + Argos).

    The (IMO) all-time big 3 of CFL QBs - Jackson, Moon & Flutie - all had 3 GC wins (Moon was also on those 78 & 79 Esks dynasty teams, and did play in the 79 game); but they did not play in the league as long as Damon Allen or Ricky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gonzo View Post
    Well, it is uncanny how often the experts are wrong. I see no reason to assume the worst at this time.

    I'll take this off season over last -- any day, and twice on any given Sunday.

    Don't see the sky falling here. Not yet anyway.
    Who's assuming the worst?
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    Paul, thanks for the Finance 101 lesson. It's been decades since I took it.
    So many decades ago that labour law hadn't been written yet, I guess. I'll wait for the next round of bargaining to see what happens to pay scales. Ambrosie may be a great commissioner (maybe even better than Pinball would have been), but even a great commissioner isn't going to give something up without a negotiation. And if Ambrosie is as visionary as some seem to think, he will actually face two negotiations -- one with the players association and one with the owners, who for the first time in decades are enjoying some relative prosperity in most markets, and aren't about to voluntarily walk back from that.
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  15. #35
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    Boy if only there was an opportunity to ask the Commissioner these existential questions directly.
    “it's not the strongest who survive nor the most intelligent but the ones most adaptable to change.’ Charles Darwin

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup View Post
    Boy if only there was an opportunity to ask the Commissioner these existential questions directly.
    This is why I have so enjoyed the (early) leadership of Randy Ambrosie. He's not going to weight himself down with such heavy conjecture. Why? There is opportunity, and opportunity for both the league AND the players to takes strides forward *together*

    Since it's the truth, I don't see it as a difficult sell. I don't see the league folding. I don't see the league returning to anything. I see the league moving forward here, but color me double-blue and call me an optimist.

    I see opportunity.
    Hustle hit and never quit

  17. #37
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    We need to find a way to uncover some more blue chip talent coming out of American colleges. USC, Michigan, Notre Dame.
    Not all of those guys go to the NFL. Seems the CFL only recruits from smaller schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topshelf View Post
    We need to find a way to uncover some more blue chip talent coming out of American colleges. USC, Michigan, Notre Dame.
    Not all of those guys go to the NFL. Seems the CFL only recruits from smaller schools.
    I don't get that thinking. If they are not in the NFL, and are not being recruited to play in the CFL, doesn't that tell you they are likely not good enough? Maybe they should try recruiting more from the National Championship (at least should be in the conversation being unbeaten and beating Auburn who beat both Alabama and Georgia) UCF program instead.
    It's us vs the rest of the country

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topshelf View Post
    We need to find a way to uncover some more blue chip talent coming out of American colleges. USC, Michigan, Notre Dame.
    Not all of those guys go to the NFL. Seems the CFL only recruits from smaller schools.
    I understand that the league uses negotiation lists to help keep costs under control. However, I don't think teams need 45 player negotiation lists that block other teams from recruiting any of these players. Furthermore, with teams hoarding so many QBs on these lists, it is virtually guaranteed that the league over time has lost out on some talented players who are very suited to the Canadian game. In other words, reducing the number of players, especially QBs, on these lists would help in getting more talent into the league.
    Last edited by jerrym; 02-04-2018 at 06:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrym View Post
    I understand that the league uses negotiation lists to help keep costs under control. However, I don't think teams need 45 player negotiation lists that block other teams from recruiting any of these players. Furthermore, with teams hoarding so many QBs on these lists, it is virtually guaranteed that the league over time has lost out on some talented who very suited to the Canadian game. In other words, reducing the number of players, especially QBs, on these lists would help in getting more talent into the league.
    You're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. I would hope that we see a fan poll on CFL.ca on this issue.

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