Tailgating Cancelled

[Rich]

Zero chance there were 1,000 people regularly attending the tailgate/shipyard, 200-350 at best.

You don't know what you're talking about. There was easily over 2,000 people at the last tailgate, probably closer to 3,000. It very well may be that the tailgating thing was just starting to catch on and might have really taken off this year.

[Rich]

Another thing people need to remember is if a concert is taking place at Ontario Place they cannot get the space to run an official tailgate the Argos had conflicts on the following nights:

July 7th: Beck
July 21st: Yanni
August 2nd: Kenny Chesney
August 18th CNE

And RBC Echo Beach and the Amphitheater will still have some more dates to announce. I would rather the Argos do something on a consistent basis. Those conflicts leave them with almost half the schedule not being able to run it anyway on their own.

The Ontario Place lot could never be a long-term location for tailgating anyway. Ontario Place is going to be redeveloped over the next few years and no matter what they end up putting in there, it's not likely they'd ever have a huge empty parking lot available.

[R.J]

You don't know what you're talking about. There was easily over 2,000 people at the last tailgate, probably closer to 3,000. It very well may be that the tailgating thing was just starting to catch on and might have really taken off this year.

The East Final where there was just under 25,000 for the the game ?
What about the games that averaged between 12-15 thousand, still 2-3,000 ?

For those claiming that there was 1,000 or over for regular season tailgates, do you have photographic proof ?

[Rich]

The East Final where there was just under 25,000 for the the game ?
What about the games that averaged between 12-15 thousand, still 2-3,000 ?

If there's more people at the game there will be more people at the tailgate. What's your point?

[R.J]

If there's more people at the game there will be more people at the tailgate. What's your point?

Paul's statement which I quoted was: "So let's assume that 1,000 people regularly attended tailgates", to which I replied 200-350 "regularly". Neither one of us stated it's never gone over that number on a one game basis, like the East Final as you brought up.

[Rich]

Paul's statement which I quoted was: "So let's assume that 1,000 people regularly attended tailgates", to which I replied 200-350 "regularly". Neither one of us stated it's never gone over that number on a one game basis, like the East Final as you brought up.

If the Argos drew 25,000 to every game it is not unreasonable to assume that the tailgates would have regularly attracted 2-3,000 people.

[R.J]

If the Argos drew 25,000 to every game it is not unreasonable to assume that the tailgates would have regularly attracted 2-3,000 people.

And your point is ?

[mchesher03]

Wow this one is really off the rails.

My 2 cents: yes I’m disappointed there’s no more tailgates but I totally see why they stopped doing it. The team was probably paying a pretty penny to operate these tailgates and I’d struggle to say they were having an impact on attendance, it was mainly a couple hundred of the “die hards” who’d be at these games come hell or high water.

They were great fun but such is life, they weren’t the be all and end all of the game day experience.

[Rich]

And your point is ?

It shouldn't be so hard to understand that low tailgate attendance was directly related to low game attendance, and not necessarily a reflection of the tailgates' worthiness or popularity.

[Neely2005]

After yesterday's announcements, I thought I would check the reaction on this site.
(I stopped coming to this site last fall as I found the incessant whining by many posters here was actually ruining my enjoyment of the Argonauts and the CFL.)

I see that nothing has changed.
If I remember correctly, there was a lot of whining on this site about how the tailgating was going to be run when it was first set up. Beer prices would be too high...parking prices would be too high...lineups would be long if you couldn't bring your own beer....
Now, most of those people are crying about the scrapping of that same tailgating.

A question for everyone here who is slamming MLSE for scrapping tailgating: Would you forgo the price reduction on your game tickets in order to retain tailgating?
No excuses about how MLSE has gobs of money that can be thrown around to "invest" in the Argos long term - So many people here are great at spending other peoples' money, yet those same people are screaming that they want a refund on the money for which they are receiving a credit for their already paid season tickets. Where is YOUR long-term investment in the team?

Talk is cheap.

Yes I would forego my price reduction in favour of keeping Tailgating. I know I'm in the minority but after talking to other season ticket holders I'm certainly not alone.

[Neely2005]

So let's assume that 1,000 people regularly attended tailgates. (I find that a bit hard to believe, but maybe it's true.) And let's imagine that over time, the tailgates might have expanded to hold 5,000. (I don't think the parking lot could accommodate that many, but let's say I'm wrong.) That's still 15,000 fewer people than they hope to put into the stadium consistently. Every paying customer benefits from the price decrease. Only those who attend tailgate benefit from the existence of tailgate. While it's possible people who would otherwise not go to a game would go to a tailgate and be converted into ticket-buying fans, the number seems more likely to be in the dozens than the thousands.

Most cars at the Tailgate had multiple people, so 1 car X 4 people. More people than parking spots.

[paulwoods13]

It shouldn't be so hard to understand that low tailgate attendance was directly related to low game attendance, and not necessarily a reflection of the tailgates' worthiness or popularity.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the tailgates were enjoyed by those who attended (even though it was not a "true" -- i.e. BYOB, little regulation, etc. -- tailgate experience). But did it do any more than create a really fun experience for a few hundred to several hundred spectators, most of whom would likely go to the games anyway? Did it drive business success? The answer seems to be No, based on Manning's comments. Might it have driven business success (by bringing in new fans, who liked it so much they became regulars) if it had been kept alive this year and in the future? Maybe -- we really have no way of knowing. We do know that the physical setup is not terribly conducive to a great (and consistent) tailgate experience. The tailgate lot is far from the stadium and is unavailable at least 45% of the time this season.

[Neely2005]

That's the thing I find hilarious about this situation - fans crying about the owners investing money into the team, and yet just because the team will no longer financially support a "beer garden", the so called "fans" want to pull their support of the team lol.

Tailgating should and can be done by the fans, not sure why so many feel it's over and done with, just because the owners don't feel they should run a beer garden.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Argonauts biggest issues are #1. the perception of the team/league within the general masses, and #2. the fanbase itself, who are always looking for ways to abandon the team.

Zero chance there were 1,000 people regularly attending the tailgate/shipyard, 200-350 at best.

The weekend Tailgates easily had over 1000 people. Aside from the Grey Cup Tailgate the East Final Tailgate was the biggest one yet.

[paulwoods13]

Most cars at the Tailgate had multiple people, so 1 car X 4 people. More people than parking spots.

Right, so 5,000 people would mean at least 1,250 parking spots. Are there that many spots in that lot?

[Neely2005]

Right, so 5,000 people would mean at least 1,250 parking spots. Are there that many spots in that lot?

There are multiple parking lots there and yes I believe there are enough parkin spots to accommodate 1250 cars.

You can see a parking map here:

www.ontarioplace.com/en/visit-us/parking

(Scroll down)

[Harpastum]

Sure - I'll miss the fun of tailgating - but it wasn't the sole reason I ever went to an Argo game.
And you can bet MLSE knows they will need more than just the game itself to draw in new fans - & will be providing a good pregame experience to replace this.
So I'm gonna be patient & give them this season to show me their new vision.

[R.J]

http://www.ontarioplace.com/sites/de...Lots%20Map.pdf

752 parking spots where the official tailgate/shipyard was. Considering how much space the shipyard took, and that on most games the lot wasn't even half full at best (including the Shipyard), I have a real hard time believing that the Shipyard/Tailgate averaged over 1,000 attendees on the regular. If I'm wrong, no worries, but I'd at least like to see some proof.

[AngeloV]

You don't know what you're talking about. There was easily over 2,000 people at the last tailgate, probably closer to 3,000. It very well may be that the tailgating thing was just starting to catch on and might have really taken off this year.

Disagree. The tailgate at the first BMO game in 2016 was also huge. It's the size of the crowd that drives how big the tailgate is. Not the other way around. My point, fans aren't just going to go to a football game because of the tailgate. You have to get them interested in going to the game first. The tailgate is an added bonus to those that choose to partake.

[R.J]

Disagree. The tailgate at the first BMO game in 2016 was also huge. It's the size of the crowd that drives how big the tailgate is. Not the other way around. My point, fans aren't just going to go to a football game because of the tailgate. You have to get them interested in going to the game first. The tailgate is an added bonus to those that choose to partake.

Of which they can still continue to do so.

[Neely2005]

You're absolutely right about Hamilton. The team AFAIK does not officially sanction the tailgating, but it does take place in parking lots that are officially sanctioned by the team. I have seen very few incidents (if any) in about 10 years of tailgating in Hamilton. The only time that the police gave people any hint of trouble was in 2010-2011 (and it was minor) was during the height of the stadium controversy.

I believe the concern in Toronto is that the people who need to look the other way will not look the other way when people try to set up their tailgates independently.

IIRC the Toronto Police shut down TFC fans tailgating before games at BMO Field a few years ago. I think Tbone may have even posted about it on this message board.