Tailgating Cancelled

[Scooter McCray]

I am willing to see what Manning and the organization have in store for their new game day experience. Pre game, In game and Post game. Something that differentiates them from the other teams, that will evolve but be consistently done so that Argo games become a destination event 10 times per year. The problem in the past has always been consistency and commitment of ownership. The tailgate is just another idea that has been forgotten because there is new management again. Just have a plan and do it. Michael Copeland did not have a plan beyond opening day 2016 because nothing was built off of that day. This is why it has been difficult to gain traction in the minds of Toronto fans. That and intentional media bias to not cover the team.

[rdavies]

I have not read the entire thread so first off I plead ignorance. I am totally missing the point here. The people here who are complaining about the tailgate being cancelled, why can't you just do it yourselves? Instead of expecting 1000/2000 people start out with thirty. Are there ten people here who would go to a tailgate and maybe have two other people with them.

Obviously with that many/few people you would be congregating together and not be spread throughout a parking lot. Promote yourselves with media outlets, radio loves live hits like that. The host broadcaster will want that type of colour to fill space in the broadcast, (the ol bratwurst on the barbie shot) Any decent cameraman will shoot the 30 people to look like 300, not to be manipulative but to make the gathering look like an event and not be pathetic with so few people. But to my mind 30 is a lot of people.

Now I don't know about your liquor laws but can you hand out free de-alcoholized beers (in a cup?), sort of your contribution to get the promotion of the team back on its feet and bring more people to the gathering. If it's a hot day, I'm drinkin' a free beer no matter what it is (you don't have to say it's de-alcoholized).

Do this for every game with 30 people, for one year, two if you have to, I guarantee, human nature being what it is people will be curious about why that group is having such a good time and will endeavour to find out.

Now some might say they already tried that but it wasn't the fans responsibility as a fan to go promote it, it was the team. This way the fan has a special interest in growing the tailgate. Just keep doing it and good things will happen, MLSE will do whatever they can to help facilitate you (without spending money?), they did that with TFC they'll do it with you.

Otherwise, worst case scenario, just look forward to having a good meal and a great time with some new found friends every couple of weeks. Doesn't sound bad to me.

Maybe I didn't explain myself and what I said came across as naive but I can tell you as a former TV and marketing guy it would work. In this case it will truly be if you build it they will come.

[dmont]

I have not read the entire thread so first off I plead ignorance. I am totally missing the point here. The people here who are complaining about the tailgate being cancelled, why can't you just do it yourselves? Instead of expecting 1000/2000 people start out with thirty. Are there ten people here who would go to a tailgate and maybe have two other people with them.

Obviously with that many/few people you would be congregating together and not be spread throughout a parking lot. Promote yourselves with media outlets, radio loves live hits like that. The host broadcaster will want that type of colour to fill space in the broadcast, (the ol bratwurst on the barbie shot) Any decent cameraman will shoot the 30 people to look like 300, not to be manipulative but to make the gathering look like an event and not be pathetic with so few people. But to my mind 30 is a lot of people.

Now I don't know about your liquor laws but can you hand out free de-alcoholized beers (in a cup?), sort of your contribution to get the promotion of the team back on its feet and bring more people to the gathering. If it's a hot day, I'm drinkin' a free beer no matter what it is (you don't have to say it's de-alcoholized).

Do this for every game with 30 people, for one year, two if you have to, I guarantee, human nature being what it is people will be curious about why that group is having such a good time and will endeavour to find out.

Now some might say they already tried that but it wasn't the fans responsibility as a fan to go promote it, it was the team. This way the fan has a special interest in growing the tailgate. Just keep doing it and good things will happen, MLSE will do whatever they can to help facilitate you (without spending money?), they did that with TFC they'll do it with you.

Otherwise, worst case scenario, just look forward to having a good meal and a great time with some new found friends every couple of weeks. Doesn't sound bad to me.

Maybe I didn't explain myself and what I said came across as naive but I can tell you as a former TV and marketing guy it would work. In this case it will truly be if you build it they will come.

I hope an organic tailgate does spring up and eventually turn into something huge for the team. That would be a good use of time for the fan groups, to get together and set out some parameters. I think this would be a second-best scenario. However, I'm not optimistic.

As other posters have noted, however, fan-driven tailgating faces a lot of barriers that will work against it. Ontario liquor laws will inject enough uncertainty for some fans to avoid participating. BMO field rules and Ontario place rules and Exhibition rules create a frustrating mess of a labyrinth that many fans are not going to want to put up with. I understand that TFC fans tried to do something like this and were sent packing by the cops or event staff. I can imagine the disappointment of lugging all the tailgating supplies down to the game and then being told you can't do that here or (worse) here's a citation for breaking the law this week even though it wasn't a big deal last week.

There were MANY things the team was able to do that facilitated the event, helped it go smoothly, removed uncertainty, and promoted it outside of the diehard core. They established the rules, so fans knew that participating wouldn't get them in trouble. They coordinated with all the other events going on downtown. They organized the parking spots so tailgaters could all be together. They held promotions, brought cheerleaders and former players down in order to enrich the experience. In my opinion, all of these are necessary for tailgating to really work in downtown Toronto on public land with antiquated liquor laws. Without these, a fan-driven tailgate withers on the vine and dies.

The best bet for an organic tailgate is if the leaders of the different fan groups (Friends of the Argonauts, Argofans.com, The OARS, Double Blue Order, etc.) get together and take over the team's former functions. They wouldn't be able to get a liquor license for the area (so imbibing would have to stay on the extreme down-low) or reserve parking spaces, and I'm sure they'd need some kind of permission to bring in outside vendors and/or promo teams, but they could at least help with coordination. It's an uphill battle, though, and given the current state of Argo fandom in the city, I don't think it goes anywhere without the assistance of the team.

[rdavies]

The best bet for an organic tailgate is if the leaders of the different fan groups (Friends of the Argonauts, Argofans.com, The OARS, Double Blue Order, etc.) get together and take over the team's former functions.

A good place to start, that's one area where Argo fans can take a page out of the (for me) despised TFC's book.

[Jumbo]

Our group has already decided to tailgate for the first game. We won't be spending too much on expensive cuts of meat in case we get shut down, but we will try. We'll keep our beer on ice in our truck and use plastic cups. I'm confident that the worst that will happen is we will get a warning. After tailgating for the past couple of years, I highly doubt police will be running around trying to ticket people without giving a warning first. Best case scenario is they do a few walk byes to make sure that things are in control and like others have said, an organic tailgate begins to grow and we make due until a larger, sanctioned tailgate returns as crowds increase.

[dmont]

Our group has already decided to tailgate for the first game. We won't be spending too much on expensive cuts of meat in case we get shut down, but we will try. We'll keep our beer on ice in our truck and use plastic cups. I'm confident that the worst that will happen is we will get a warning. After tailgating for the past couple of years, I highly doubt police will be running around trying to ticket people without giving a warning first. Best case scenario is they do a few walk byes to make sure that things are in control and like others have said, an organic tailgate begins to grow and we make due until a larger, sanctioned tailgate returns as crowds increase.

Good idea and best of luck to you. Which one is "our group"? Argofans.com? Will you be coordinating with any of the other fan groups?

[rdavies]

We won't be spending too much on expensive cuts of meat in case we get shut down, but we will try. We'll keep our beer on ice in our truck and use plastic cups. I'm confident that the worst that will happen is we will get a warning. After tailgating for the past couple of years, I highly doubt police will be running around trying to ticket people without giving a warning first. Best case scenario is they do a few walk byes to make sure that things are in control and like others have said, an organic tailgate begins to grow and we make due until a larger, sanctioned tailgate returns as crowds increase.

Holy cow, who runs your city, Heinrich Himmler? Don't know why you need a sanctioned tailgate, if you're already doing it, unless you want to get rid of whatever headaches you have organizing it.

[paulwoods13]

I have received written confirmation from my ticket rep that my credit can be applied to 2019 season's tickets, so I suspect anyone told otherwise has been given erroneous info.

[RB957]

I have received written confirmation from my ticket rep that my credit can be applied to 2019 season's tickets, so I suspect anyone told otherwise has been given erroneous info.

I was told I could use the credit for next year's seats. I think part of the issue is that they are using MLSE reps who have little or no regular dealings with the Argos. According to her email signature, the rep who called me was an account executive with Raptors 905. So I think paulwoods13 is correct. Not everyone has the same info.


On a different issue... last year the Argos had a promotion or STH benefit that if you brought in another STH, you would receive a discount on your own tickets. I did bring someone into the fold, and advised the rep who called me today, who was clearly unaware. It has been passed on to the Argos to deal with, but I sure hope they honour their commitment.

[Argo57]

I was told I could use the credit for next year's seats. I think part of the issue is that they are using MLSE reps who have little or no regular dealings with the Argos. According to her email signature, the rep who called me was an account executive with Raptors 905. So I think paulwoods13 is correct. Not everyone has the same info.


On a different issue... last year the Argos had a promotion or STH benefit that if you brought in another STH, you would receive a discount on your own tickets. I did bring someone into the fold, and advised the rep who called me today, who was clearly unaware. It has been passed on to the Argos to deal with, but I sure hope they honour their commitment.

Seems we are getting different stories depending who we talk to, unprofessional at best.

[Shatto]

The rep who called me was pleasant, professional and knowledgeable. The first question I asked was, how long he had been an Argo rep and he replied, "one year". So, to some extent, he did have an understanding of the Argos and their fans.

It appears that decisions are being made on the fly, without enough time or consideration being taken to ensure the decisions are well founded and meet the fans' expectations. For example, if it is true that the upper east side is just being kept vacant without appropriate tarping, it will just leave a very unattractive sea of red, advertising to the TV camera the lack of attendance. It also helps explain how the tailgating decision was made, especially when the only justification appears to be Manning's view that it seem forced and cost too much. He may be correct but some objective detailed factual justification would have been nice.

The reduction of the ticket pricing is appreciated and hopefully this approach will increase attendance but was there any type of market analysis including a polling of present and potential fans that a price drop would result more people purchasing tickets? Or is it simply, this is what TFC ticket buyers pay, therefore it must be correct? A little more professionalism in the decision making wouldn't go astray.

[Will]

I was told I could use the credit for next year's seats. I think part of the issue is that they are using MLSE reps who have little or no regular dealings with the Argos. According to her email signature, the rep who called me was an account executive with Raptors 905. So I think paulwoods13 is correct. Not everyone has the same info.


On a different issue... last year the Argos had a promotion or STH benefit that if you brought in another STH, you would receive a discount on your own tickets. I did bring someone into the fold, and advised the rep who called me today, who was clearly unaware. It has been passed on to the Argos to deal with, but I sure hope they honour their commitment.

This was something that Manning mentioned that they could shift MLSE resources around, but what good is it if the ones who have been shifted are not fully briefed on what is and what is not a permissible use of this credit?

[AngeloV]

In reading all these differences of responses from the reps, to me, it has become a major topic for face to face discussion. Sadly, the Argos have yet to officially announce a date for the ST holders town hall. Training camp starts in about a month. This needs to get done ASAP.

[AngeloV]

I exchanged PM's with an MLSE employee today, and was told that the team can't keep your money in regards to the credit. If you choose not to use the credit for an upgrade, or to purchase additional tickets, you can either get your credit card reversal, or use it towards next season's tickets. Sadly I also asked about the town hall. There is no guarantee the Argos will have a town hall before the start of the season despite the fact that the email for the Randy Ambrosie town hall from the team clearly stated there will be one. I'm trying to find an email address for Bill Manning himself, but all I can find online to this point is the one when he was in charge of Real Salt Lake in MLS. If anyone comes across his current MLSE email, I suggest we share it and everyone send him an email with our concerns. I get the feeling talking to our reps will only go so far.

[Mightygoose]

I exchanged PM's with an MLSE employee today, and was told that the team can't keep your money in regards to the credit. If you choose not to use the credit for an upgrade, or to purchase additional tickets, you can either get your credit card reversal, or use it towards next season's tickets. Sadly I also asked about the town hall. There is no guarantee the Argos will have a town hall before the start of the season despite the fact that the email for the Randy Ambrosie town hall from the team clearly stated there will be one. I'm trying to find an email address for Bill Manning himself, but all I can find online to this point is the one when he was in charge of Real Salt Lake in MLS. If anyone comes across his current MLSE email, I suggest we share it and everyone send him an email with our concerns. I get the feeling talking to our reps will only go so far.

Is there a reason why the town hall has to take place before the start of the season? Some teams in other leagues have theirs towards the end, heck even hold it during the bye week.

Considering there was change in ownership and management this off season just like 2 years ago, I'm willing to be patient while they integrate into MLSE and people settle in their new roles.

[AngeloV]

Is there a reason why the town hall has to take place before the start of the season? Some teams in other leagues have theirs towards the end, heck even hold it during the bye week.

Considering there was change in ownership and management this off season just like 2 years ago, I'm willing to be patient while they integrate into MLSE and people settle in their new roles.

I highly doubt they would ever do it during the season. Looks like another cost cutting thing.

[paulwoods13]

I will be very surprised if there is a town hall this year. Hope I'm wrong, but it just feels to me like this is not happening.

[Shatto]

Communication doesn't seem to have a high priority with management. I also suspect there will be no Town Hall event this year.

[OV Argo]

Relax; these are clearly super-expert, so well versed in the nuances of Canadian football & Argo history people running the Argos now. Frick = probably over-qualified. Patience and have some faith.

;o)

[PullTogether73]

Relax; these are clearly super-expert, so well versed in the nuances of Canadian football & Argo history people running the Argos now. Frick = probably over-qualified. Patience and have some faith.

;o)

Very clever sarcasm.

I will point out however, that if the new management team was "well versed in the nuances of Canadian football & Argo history", you would label them GOBs with no new ideas or fresh perspectives.