Argos game thread - Week 2 - Stamps @ Argos.

[paulwoods13]

I agree wholeheartedly (incremental change over the next 10 years?! - sounds like a way to not be held accountable for failing for the next while)....but I'm just whining now (ha ha ha)....I thought that's what message boards were for - griping?!.....ha ha ha.....I simply asked for some ideas at the end of my "novel" after putting out a few of my own ideas (mostly stolen from other teams marketing departments in various sports) at the end of my long diatribe....

I'll go back to yelling at clouds now.....

Incremental increases every year is a far more attainable goal than a huge jump in one year. We've seen reams of evidence that this is a long-term problem requiring a long-term solution.

This is not addressed to you, specifically, but since the statement was made in response to your first post -- there were never 40,000 season-ticket holders, ever. The organization averaged total attendance in the 40s only four years -- 1976-79. Those crowds were not made up entirely of STHs. I would bet the maximum number of season tickets was in the low 30s at most.

[Mightygoose]

This seems incredibly hard to believe. I know the organization seems to be flying by the seat of its pants this year but it's hard to imagine it could completely fail to notify season-ticket holders about how to obtain their special gift. I'd like to see evidence of this -- can someone please post a picture?

I second this.

We brought 4 family and friends yesterday who are not season ticket holders. We all lined up in the same line showed our respective tickets (we brought the stock in the ST package) and we all got the same type of ring.

Sorry to be skeptical but it sounds like a way to pile on from what was a very disappointing evening last night.

[lazycro]

To those saying 5:30 Is a weird time. Do you have kids?

My co-sth beside me has a kid and is glad it's an earlier game. He can bring his kid and now feed his kid at the game dinner.

Expect some sort of family deal and promotion around families for this game

[Argo57]

I second this.

We brought 4 family and friends yesterday who are not season ticket holders. We all lined up in the same line showed our respective tickets (we brought the stock in the ST package) and we all got the same type of ring.

Sorry to be skeptical but it ounds like a way to pile on from what was a very disappointing evening last night.

Same here.
We arrived at the Shipyard at 4:15, lined up showed the ST card stock and were given our rings.
Any e-mail notification we received clearly stated the first 6,000 fans at the shipyard receive a ring (which we did).
Didn’t see any special line up for ST holders?
If there was a special ring dedicated to ST holders that was news to me, I assumed all the rings were identical TBH.

[argofandave]

Incremental increases every year is a far more attainable goal than a huge jump in one year. We've seen reams of evidence that this is a long-term problem requiring a long-term solution.

This is not addressed to you, specifically, but since the statement was made in response to your first post -- there were never 40,000 season-ticket holders, ever. The organization averaged total attendance in the 40s only four years -- 1976-79. Those crowds were not made up entirely of STHs. I would bet the maximum number of season tickets was in the low 30s at most.

I read somewhere that the most season tickets ever sold for the Argos was 31,000 when Exhibition Stadium held 33,000 seats.

[Scooter McCray]

There is simply too much talent on this team and they are too well coached to keep.playing like this. There is hope for a turnaround. Whereas in Montreal I just don't believe the talent is there to excel. Most of the Argos played for and won a championship 7 months ago. It is the same collection of players for the most part. Although they do miss Posey to stretch the defences.

[ArgoZ]

This seems incredibly hard to believe. I know the organization seems to be flying by the seat of its pants this year but it's hard to imagine it could completely fail to notify season-ticket holders about how to obtain their special gift. I'd like to see evidence of this -- can someone please post a picture?

https://twitter.com/argonuts/status/...196329985?s=21
I tagged you in the post. Here is a quick picture of what I received. Box, oversized ring and felt bag. I put the smaller version ring beside (gave to a family member of mine around 6pm). I assume they gave out the larger rings when opening around 3:30pm, which were originally intended for ST holders, until they ran out and switched to the smaller versions. I believe we will all still receive a separate ST gift, otherwise a big screwup.

[Mightygoose]

https://twitter.com/argonuts/status/...196329985?s=21
I tagged you in the post. Here is a quick picture of what I received. Box, oversized ring and felt bag. I put the smaller version ring beside (gave to a family member of mine around 6pm). I assume they gave out the larger rings when opening around 3:30pm, which were originally intended for ST holders, until they ran out and switched to the smaller versions. I believe we will all still receive a separate ST gift, otherwise a big screwup.

Appreciate the image. I would like to believe the actual.ST gift will be something different and later on considering they were mentioning buying and renewing STs last night on the board. So why give them out if they're still selling them.

Also, I'm sure the larger rings are nice but making the ST gift the same thing as a promotional givaway but larger is lame IMO.

[OV Argo]

Incremental increases every year is a far more attainable goal than a huge jump in one year. We've seen reams of evidence that this is a long-term problem requiring a long-term solution.

This is not addressed to you, specifically, but since the statement was made in response to your first post -- there were never 40,000 season-ticket holders, ever. The organization averaged total attendance in the 40s only four years -- 1976-79. Those crowds were not made up entirely of STHs. I would bet the maximum number of season tickets was in the low 30s at most.

Well then - I stand corrected - maybe there was never 40K season ticket holders for the Argos, but there was 30K plus (about 3 times more people than they can currently get to attend, period, now) ? - that might indicate something on this file; perhaps not to you though - and I'm sure your types have full confidence in the current Argos ownership / braintrust group (composed of corporate bean counters, some soccer snobs and an NFL wannabe at the top) are well on their way to slowly building the Argos back to respectibility - with increases in support/attendance each and every year on the way to 20K even season ticket holders ?. Call me about a great real estate deal on some alligator home lands in Fla. ;o)

[paulwoods13]

I see the discussion has devolved as usual into the customary insults and derision from one participant. Some things just never change.

[Argos1983]

^ I'm not against the idea of incremental growth but the concept that it will magically happen if we win (that's been proven to be pretty irrelevant - see 96-97), move to a new stadium (that's been proven to be pretty irrelevant since 2016 - the BMO "bump" didn't really happen), lower ST ticket prices drastically (still proven to be pretty irrelevant unless 6000 STH is impressing anyone off of a GC winning season or we keep selling tickets at 50% of the ST price which is not exactly the best business model), my point is that something different needs to be tried as selling the game as is will not move the needle to get to a consistent crowd of 20-25K+ which is not an unreasonable target in this market to hit.....

I don't expect it to happen overnight, but what can one point to and say, this is what management has done since the move to BMO to really try to make their product stand-out in the crowded entertainment market of Toronto (the Barracks? which still was a bit of screw-up after trying tailgating and giving up on it within a two year window)......where is the access to players on a consistent basis? (I remember TFC pub crawls all over the 416 and 905 in the early years), where is the targeting of kids with their parents (cheaper family packs and Jr. Jays style entertainment for kids in stadium - before, during and after games)? where is the branding of merchandise for giveaways (give people a hat/shirt and maybe they will wear your brand out into the market and advertise your product for free)? where is the "fun" once you get inside BMO field (social gathering areas? better social media accessibility?) --- I keep seeing poor communication from management to the public (especially STH), we got a marching band that got rid of one of the few "fan-based" traditions that we had (Argo-Notes), and in general a lot of confusion (what about those Winter Tire prizes? offering discounts to some existing MLSE STH and not others unless "pushed" to do so, at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the people listed on the website in the ticketing department don't even work there anymore etc.) ----- if others have confidence seeing all of this, that's great - I and a apparently a few others are less than confident --- I'm at the "prove it to me" stage now as "words" don't mean much after you've heard them repeated for years and years and the same mistakes keep getting repeated over and over again.....

[jerrym]

sorry about the novel.

Don't be. I enjoy a good novel, especially when it interrupts a chain of short answers.

[paulwoods13]

I don't see anyone claiming that any kind of growth (whether incremental or explosive) will "magically happen." It's going to take a lot of work, a lot of resources, very likely a lot of new ideas and quite possibly some blind luck. There are very good reasons to be skeptical of the org -- the Copeland/Moore regime made a number of major mistakes, and the Manning regime is off to a less-than-stellar start, with a lot of things suggesting that it's currently a seat-of-the-pants operation. But that doesn't make it wrong to suggest that growth is going to have to happen in stages over time. As I and others have said on here many times, the franchise is tasked with trying to find solutions for 35 years of neglect, and sometimes downright abuse, by a succession of ownership and management groups that has been a contributing factor (but not the only factor) in a loss of interest or lack of attention from much of the marketplace. Getting 20,000 to 25,000 individuals in the doors consistently is absolutely a realistic target in this market. But IMO it is completely unrealistic to think that anything could get us there in 2018. Maybe by 2021 if the right moves are made from now until then.

[jerrym]

In terms of the attendance tonight which I know many seem to hyperfocus on negative.

Last year's home opener with Hamilton has the opponent with their large contingent of fans drew 13,500 and change. This was also with the upper east side opened and selling seats in the group section plus last year STHs had the 4 free vouchers per person, though not all were used, it still bumped up the crowd size.

With this context, 16,450 is a step in the right direction. Manning has very short incremental goals this year so this is beyond what I expected at least.

Too bad the on field result was poor tonight but winning and losing has never really moved the needle in attendance one way or another. Let the sales people sell and let the on field personel take care of the on field issues. Next game begings with a 0 - 0 score to start.

I don't know what the future will bring but I do think Manning's approach is the only one that has a chance of working long term. I also think if rebuilding the brand is going to occur it will be in a zigzag pattern with ups and downs, not a straight line.

[Wobbler]

I see the discussion has devolved as usual into the customary insults and derision from one participant. Some things just never change.

Question to all: would you prefer that we delete messages like that, or rely on you all to ignore OV? Most people seem to be quite good at ignoring him - perhaps he is on a lot of Ignore lists?

(Also, you might want to think about that option, Paul)

[argofan81]

Oh it's true. Saw one. Friend Tigger had one and was close to double the size. Came in a felt bag with no stand. Apparently (according to Tibor) they handed them out at the same spot they did the other one's and even had "season ticket gift" written on it.

You're right though. There was no signage and should have had a separate STH line for it.

I asked at that table and nobody had any knowledge about a separate ring for STHs. The rumour I later heard is that they were simply mixed in with all the other rings and could basically be obtained by anybody?

[paulwoods13]

Question to all: would you prefer that we delete messages like that, or rely on you all to ignore OV? Most people seem to be quite good at ignoring him - perhaps he is on a lot of Ignore lists?

(Also, you might want to think about that option, Paul)

Perhaps naively, I keep hoping for contributions to the discussion that go beyond the old "your types" smears. Call me an optimist, I guess. Nonetheless, I don't recommend mods delete such messages. We're all entitled to our opinions and the form of expressing them.

[OV Argo]

Question to all: would you prefer that we delete messages like that, or rely on you all to ignore OV? Most people seem to be quite good at ignoring him - perhaps he is on a lot of Ignore lists?

(Also, you might want to think about that option, Paul)

Perhaps a good old fashion bannin' (credit - Turd-down - RIP) is in order - for some heretic types who aren't with the program ?

Smug or dismissive responses to opinions that are unacceptable to some usual suspects here are quite permissable though? Don't bother suggesting the ignore option to me however - I like hearing many various Argo opinions.

[paulwoods13]

"Smug or dismissive responses to opinions that are unacceptable to some usual suspects here" may go down as the most ironic statement this board has ever seen.

[PullTogether73]

Question to all: would you prefer that we delete messages like that, or rely on you all to ignore OV? Most people seem to be quite good at ignoring him - perhaps he is on a lot of Ignore lists?

(Also, you might want to think about that option, Paul)

Perhaps a good old fashion bannin' (credit - Turd-down - RIP) is in order - for some heretic types who aren't with the program ?

Smug or dismissive responses to opinions that are unacceptable to some usual suspects here are quite permissable though? Don't bother suggesting the ignore option to me however - I like hearing many various Argo opinions.

I'm good with either action - delete OR ban.

If someone can't express one's opinion without insulting others, then they should lose the privilege of posting.
Disagreement and disrespect do not go hand-in-hand.