What will it take for Toronto to love the Argos?

[jerrym]

A Grey Cup has generated a small boost in interest for the Argos in Toronto, but what will it take to produce a love affair? Do you agree with Manning's and Ray's assessments below?

Seven months later, as the Argonauts prepare for their home opener against Calgary on Saturday night, the big question is the same question: They can win, but what will it take for Toronto to love them?
“I think it’s going to be a longer project,” says new Argos team president Bill Manning, who is also the president of Toronto FC. “I think what we’re looking to do and what (ownership) have asked me to do is stabilize the franchise, and then for a lack of a better word, how do we make it cool again? It’s 660,000 viewers for the last game, 175,000 who are in Ontario. How do we get them to come out and how do we get them to enjoy the in-game experience? And I’m conservatively excited, for lack of a better word, about the home opener.”

The home opener is nearly a sellout, but a sellout is closer to 20,000, with the upper east seats covered over this season. Season tickets are up 25 per cent, to about 6,000. Last season, in the friendly and scenic confines of BMO Field, the Argos averaged 13,913 fans per game, about half of capacity, and down from their first year there; the next-lowest number in the CFL was Montreal at 19,521, at 83 per cent of capacity. The average for the non-Toronto CFL teams was almost 26,000. ...


“Yeah, that’s a good question,” says Ray, who has been in Toronto since 2012. “That’s something that, my time in Toronto it’s been a hot topic, just with fan support at the games, and in my opinion I just think there’s been so much negativity around it. You know, people talking about why aren’t people going, people hear that and they don’t want to go to a game because it sounds like it’s a bad experience or something.
“And I think we just need to start talking about what a great experience it can be, to go down and watch a CFL game … it’s a great product, it’s a great stadium, it’s a great atmosphere. If we start talking about the fun that fans can have going to a CFL game rather than always harping on why it’s not happening, I think we can change that perspective of going to a game, and instead of it being uncool, you know, an uncool thing to do, maybe fans will look at it as a really fun thing to do. And we can do our part by winning our home games".


Championships have never solved the problem before. The game experience might. They’re trying stuff like giving out replica championship rings to the first several thousand fans at Stanley Barracks, across from the stadium, which the Argos envision as a pre-game replacement for tailgating, with live music and beer and hotdog deals.
But the most important part is the simplest: More cheap tickets. Gotta get people in the building.

“Now you can get in the game, essentially, for 20 bucks,” says Manning. “Unless you want some of the more premium seats, and that’s any venue, they’re going to be more expensive. But if you just want to come out to the game with your family, in my mind, I want a family to be able to come for four tickets, four hotdogs and four drinks, for $100. That was my goal. And I think we’ve accomplished that. And those aren’t the 50-yard-line seats. But they’re decent seats. It’s a pretty good venue. And once we start selling all the seats in the lower bowl and the west side, then we start selling the upper east side, and that’s when we can really start pushing off. I’m really hoping for incremental growth. Like, if we sell an additional 1,500 tickets this year, I’ll consider that success. Then the year after another 1,000, 1,500. And then all of a sudden you’re looking three years, four years from now, are they averaging 19,000, 20,000 a game. Hey guys, that’s pretty good. That’s how I see it.”

http://3downnation.com/2018/06/23/ar...-love-toronto/

[ArgoGabe22]

A culture change.

[Bruro]

If the Argos were an NFL team.......other than that toronto is too snooty for the CFL

[jerrym]

No love today.

[macspectrum]

A culture change.

true
and
as al davis said; 'just win baby!'
.
i just looked at youtube and saw skydome filled with fans when john candy was an owner
.
i even remeber going to games at Exhibition stadium w/ 45,000 fans

[macspectrum]

If the Argos were an NFL team.......other than that toronto is too snooty for the CFL

i disagree
4 million people in GTA can easily generate 40,000 fans per home game
argos need to look important on the field
that loss aginst calgary as a home opener was abysmal

[Argo57]

i disagree
4 million people in GTA can easily generate 40,000 fans per home game
argos need to look important on the field
that loss aginst calgary as a home opener was abysmal

Agree 100%

[Ron]

10 years

[paulwoods13]

true
and
as al davis said; 'just win baby!'
.
i just looked at youtube and saw skydome filled with fans when john candy was an owner
.
i even remeber going to games at Exhibition stadium w/ 45,000 fans

1. SkyDome was filled ONCE with John Candy as a co-owner -- the 1991 Eastern Final. There was only one other crowd above 40,000 in his three years as part of the ownership group.

2. When the Argos were consistently drawing 45,000 fans to Exhibition Stadium (1976-79) they were doing the opposite of "just win, baby."

3. If ever a team could "just win, baby," it was the 1996-97 Argos (34 wins in 40 games). They averaged less than 19,000 fans per game.

[paulwoods13]

4 million people in GTA can easily generate 40,000 fans per home game

If it is easy, how come none of the EIGHT ownership groups since the 1970s has been able to do it?

[Scooter McCray]

It's easy for the other T.O. teams because there is consistent media coverage daily in season and sometimes out of season. Still crickets for the most part for the Argos. They still don't do radio broadcasts on away games. Go onto the tsn radio sites in any of the other CFL cities and there are downloads of shows and interviews and the game day pre and post shows. TSN 1050 has one from all of last week.

I am not saying regular coverage fixes all of their issues but it would be a start in the right place.

[paulwoods13]

It's easy for the other T.O. teams because there is consistent media coverage daily in season and sometimes out of season. Still crickets for the most part for the Argos. They still don't do radio broadcasts on away games. Go onto the tsn radio sites in any of the other CFL cities and there are downloads of shows and interviews and the game day pre and post shows. TSN 1050 has one from all of last week.

I am not saying regular coverage fixes all of their issues but it would be a start in the right place.

1. TFC gets less media coverage than the Argos. The Jays get more coverage and are down 11,000 fans a game.

2. Media coverage can't be controlled except by buying ads. And traditional media are dying. Expecting coverage in print, on TV and radio to solve the problem is just about guaranteed to fail.

[Scooter McCray]

1. TFC gets less media coverage than the Argos. The Jays get more coverage and are down 11,000 fans a game.

2. Media coverage can't be controlled except by buying ads. And traditional media are dying. Expecting coverage in print, on TV and radio to solve the problem is just about guaranteed to fail.

The Blue Jays still get 30000 out on weekend games and they are terrible. Without Rogers and Bell daily coverage all of these decades no way do they draw like that. Same with the Raptors. TFC do not draw on TV and is probably why there is no coverage.

Traditional may be dying a slow death but it doesn't stop them from covering these other teams. As a fan I want to consume more information not less. I don't particularly care what the source is. With the Argos it is just not available. For example yesterday Sean Fitzgerald of the Athletic tweeted that he saw Ricky Ray walk out of a go train at exhibition and nobody knew who he was. Whose fault is that? I like Sean and his writing but he doesn't do enough of it when it comes to the Argos. And I bet if asked if would prefer to write about Ricky and the Argos than most other topics. But they are too afraid to do it thinking nobody cares. Media can make a difference. They can make the Argos cool again just giving them legitimacy through their coverage. The Argo ownership still have to manage their plan and be creative in marketing and cultivating their fan base as well. I am just saying if they just had some consistent coverage they could have a fighting chance and we wouldn't be hoping for a 10 year rebuild to fill a 26000 seat stadium.

[paulwoods13]

Media can make a difference. They can make the Argos cool again just giving them legitimacy through their coverage. The Argo ownership still have to manage their plan and be creative in marketing and cultivating their fan base as well. I am just saying if they just had some consistent coverage they could have a fighting chance and we wouldn't be hoping for a 10 year rebuild to fill a 26000 seat stadium.

The media are going to cover whatever they think is worthy of coverage. What reason would they have to provide more coverage of an institution that has been slowly but regularly dwindling in attendance, if not popularity, for the past 35 years? You can argue the dwindling interest is because of reduced media coverage, and we could have an endless chicken-and-egg discussion. But bottom line is that wishing for more coverage, and/or believing it would help, will not make it happen. And as I said above, the media are dying themselves. The Globe and Mail and National Post have essentially stopped covering sports, the Star has drastically reduced its coverage, CFRB no longer covers it, etc. More media coverage would be nice but until there is a good reason for the media to cover the Argos -- such as evidence of increasing interest among consumers of those media -- it won't happen.

[Scooter McCray]

The media are going to cover whatever they think is worthy of coverage. What reason would they have to provide more coverage of an institution that has been slowly but regularly dwindling in attendance, if not popularity, for the past 35 years? You can argue the dwindling interest is because of reduced media coverage, and we could have an endless chicken-and-egg discussion. But bottom line is that wishing for more coverage, and/or believing it would help, will not make it happen. And as I said above, the media are dying themselves. The Globe and Mail and National Post have essentially stopped covering sports, the Star has drastically reduced its coverage, CFRB no longer covers it, etc. More media coverage would be nice but until there is a good reason for the media to cover the Argos -- such as evidence of increasing interest among consumers of those media -- it won't happen.

Correct. We will never know. For whatever reasons (NFL conspiracy) the media turned their backs on the Argos and CFL in Toronto. Years ago they made a conscious choice to not cover and in some cases denigrate the league to bring about more quickly the NFL dream.

[paulwoods13]

Years ago they made a conscious choice to not cover and in some cases denigrate the league to bring about more quickly the NFL dream.

That may be true in some cases (cough Paul Godfrey cough) but is unprovable and improbable in others. The fact that attendance began dropping in 1980, dropped more precipitously after the 1983 Grey Cup win, and at the same time the Blue Jays were rising to contention had a hell of a lot more to do with the reduction in coverage, IMO. Why would the media provide wall-to-wall coverage of something their readers/viewers were drifting away from and showing they didn't care about as much (except for the diehards)?

[jerrym]

Leo foresaw, at least to some extent, what would happen when the Blue Jays arrived in town.

[Scooter McCray]

That may be true in some cases (cough Paul Godfrey cough) but is unprovable and improbable in others. The fact that attendance began dropping in 1980, dropped more precipitously after the 1983 Grey Cup win, and at the same time the Blue Jays were rising to contention had a hell of a lot more to do with the reduction in coverage, IMO. Why would the media provide wall-to-wall coverage of something their readers/viewers were drifting away from and showing they didn't care about as much (except for the diehards)?

Why did there need to be a reduction in coverage? In American cities they manage to cover 4 major team sports. I think people like Godfrey decided that Toronto should only have American leagues and was too good for the CFL and others like him agreed and decided to stop covering the Argos. That policy decision has eroded the fan base over the last 2 generations of fans so that we can only draw 14000 from 35000 in 30 years. IMO the Toronto media take a slightly greater than equal share of the blame in the decline of our fan base. And it was not by accident which makes it hard to swallow. The job in front of MLSE is huge. I just hope with MLSE credibility that coverage can exist again.

[paulwoods13]

I don't doubt that reduced media coverage has contributed to the decline in the franchise's fortunes, but IMO that reduced coverage was mostly DUE TO the decline in the team's fortunes. It reflected reduced attendance and interest, which was caused by factors more important than media coverage -- the rise of the Blue Jays and later the Raptors, the salary explosion in other sports making the CFL look small-time, terrible ownership and marketing decisions by the Argos, the difference in quality between American and Canadian TV broadcasts, the blackout rules, to name a few. The reduced media coverage of the Argos exacerbated what was already going on for other reasons. As I said above, this could be an endless chicken-and-egg debate. Clearly we have different ideas about what came first.

[Bruro]

Have to diagree with your first point. tFC gets probably 10x more media exposure and hype than the Argos. To be perfectly frank, TFC is hype and cool and the Argos are not. Most people in the office i work know who Sebastian Givinco, Michael Bradley and Jose Alterdore are and very few have even heard of Ricky Ray. Sad as it to say.