Picking up the pieces

[Shatto]

Jumbo-thank you very much for both the information and the invite. It sounds as if your endeavour at creating a tailgating experience was successful. Good for you guys! It also doesn't appear that you were hassled by any of the authorities (police or security folks). The next game is at 5:30pm and the timing might be a problem for us, that game but hopefully we will join you at future games.

Congrats on your initiative. Well done.

[Antwon]

I'm almost ready to give up on the Argos in Toronto.
They are now under the powerful MLSE and have a long term vision to rebuild the brand.
Top notch facility at BMO.
Top quality GM and head coach.


I felt the next step is to make BMO a tough place to play for visiting teams. And competitive games to engage the fans.


Then the team goes out and craps the bed in the home opener! All the money and marketing in the world cannot sell a bad team that can't compete.
The players and coaches embarrassed the organization.
I know it's a long season, but if you start the season bad, you don't give people a reason to come down to a game.


My hope is that the bye week is at a good time regroup.
Franklin will no doubt be getting the next few starts, so with extra time with the first string reps in practice, maybe it will spark the offence.
Hopefully Trestman reviews the offence game plan, and realizes that most defenses can shut down a check down offence that does not go deep.
The pressure is on because Ham & Ott are better this year.

[matthew]

The Shipyard was adequate at best. It didn't have the community feel the tailgate did with people coming over etc. Just everyone parking themselves at picnic tables and benches largely keeping to themselves. Without the rings being given away, I wonder....

Rant: I was also happy to see that Sailun Winter Tires is back and we're giving them a platform and exposure again this year even though they have not met their obligations from last year. Good stuff MLSE!

For those of you that tailgated, did anyone in authority come over? My friends and I were debating this because, on the whole, we were let down by the Shipyard and one concern we had was that the Ex or someone else may have concern with propane tanks. If they didn't, we may join you to keep the spirit alive!

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm almost ready to give up on the Argos in Toronto.
They are now under the powerful MLSE and have a long term vision to rebuild the brand.
Top notch facility at BMO.
Top quality GM and head coach.


I felt the next step is to make BMO a tough place to play for visiting teams. And competitive games to engage the fans.


Then the team goes out and craps the bed in the home opener! All the money and marketing in the world cannot sell a bad team that can't compete.
The players and coaches embarrassed the organization.
I know it's a long season, but if you start the season bad, you don't give people a reason to come down to a game.


My hope is that the bye week is at a good time regroup.
Franklin will no doubt be getting the next few starts, so with extra time with the first string reps in practice, maybe it will spark the offence.
Hopefully Trestman reviews the offence game plan, and realizes that most defenses can shut down a check down offence that does not go deep.
The pressure is on because Ham & Ott are better this year.

Argos rebuild is to take 10 years according to Manning. This was the first home opener under MLSE. I wouldn't push the panic button yet. Football wise, the game was disappointing. From a off the field perspective, how does this differ from any other football game/home opener, with exception that no music was provided like 2 years ago. For me, its like no other game, city, etc. And we already had a larger crowd than last season. That's at least a positive step forward.

[rdavies]

Argos rebuild is to take 10 years according to Manning.

I think people just have to stop talking and start doing just like they did here. You wanna tailgate then tailgate, you shouldn't need the front office to take you by the hand.

As for the ten year rebuild, that's fine if he wants to say that but turnarounds can happen on a dime and if problems are dealt with and people of influence don't bemoan them and keep dragging them out, then you can move on.

Case in point, less than one short year ago, all we were reading was about the imminent demise of the Cats; 0-8, Art Briles, Kent Austin. Before that the Bombers were on their death bed; Joe Mack, Mike Kelly. The league itself suffered; Orridge is no Cohon. Well all three of those situations did not take ten years to resolve themselves.

I was at another site and it came to me how little talk there was of the actual games themselves. All there seems to be often times is bitching and bandwagonning on something we already know is a problem. Ok, the Argos have to rebuild their audience, can we look at that without the constant repetition of how bad it is (relatively speaking) Can someone tell me what actual good that serves. How does it help?

Saw a great interview with national soccer coach John Herdman on Tim and Sid. He said the national team had a lot of doubters and naysayers but he said something that has always resonated with me even before he said it. He said we have a plan to go somewhere and if you don't like it get the hell outta the way, because we're doin' it.

I see some of that in Ambrosie (in a kinder, gentler way) but wish the Argos perhaps could be a lot more aggressive. Seriously, is there anything left to lose. Manning is talking about incrementally increasing attendance, what is the shift that will cause that even marginally.

Something I'd like to see the league do that the NHL did/does?. Have games broadcast in Mandarin and Punjabi. I never thought about it until one of the broadcasters related how he had a little old Indian lady come up to him with a team shirt on (can't remember which team) Anyway she felt involved and included and was able to converse with family and others about the local team. She becomes involved and so does the family.

[Argofan_1000]

I think people just have to stop talking and start doing just like they did here. You wanna tailgate then tailgate, you shouldn't need the front office to take you by the hand.

As for the ten year rebuild, that's fine if he wants to say that but turnarounds can happen on a dime and if problems are dealt with and people of influence don't bemoan them and keep dragging them out, then you can move on.

Case in point, less than one short year ago, all we were reading was about the imminent demise of the Cats; 0-8, Art Briles, Kent Austin. Before that the Bombers were on their death bed; Joe Mack, Mike Kelly. The league itself suffered; Orridge is no Cohon. Well all three of those situations did not take ten years to resolve themselves.

I was at another site and it came to me how little talk there was of the actual games themselves. All there seems to be often times is bitching and bandwagonning on something we already know is a problem. Ok, the Argos have to rebuild their audience, can we look at that without the constant repetition of how bad it is (relatively speaking) Can someone tell me what actual good that serves. How does it help?

Saw a great interview with national soccer coach John Herdman on Tim and Sid. He said the national team had a lot of doubters and naysayers but he said something that has always resonated with me even before he said it. He said we have a plan to go somewhere and if you don't like it get the hell outta the way, because we're doin' it.

I see some of that in Ambrosie (in a kinder, gentler way) but wish the Argos perhaps could be a lot more aggressive. Seriously, is there anything left to lose. Manning is talking about incrementally increasing attendance, what is the shift that will cause that even marginally.

Something I'd like to see the league do that the NHL did/does?. Have games broadcast in Mandarin and Punjabi. I never thought about it until one of the broadcasters related how he had a little old Indian lady come up to him with a team shirt on (can't remember which team) Anyway she felt involved and included and was able to converse with family and others about the local team. She becomes involved and so does the family.

I did see lots of new Canadians at the game on Sat wearing their double blue. Anyone else notice? I was in 110

[matthew]

I saw lots myself. I am no radio expert but why can’t we have a HD radio or streaming channel with two guys at game explaining what is happening on the field in Punjabi or mandarin that people new to game could tune into while in stadium. Dosent have to be play-by-play per se. People tend to like and appreciate things they understand. At very least some YouTube vids in a variety of languages with a football 101 theme or some clinics.

Anyhow nice to see new faces.

[paulwoods13]

As for the ten year rebuild, that's fine if he wants to say that but turnarounds can happen on a dime and if problems are dealt with and people of influence don't bemoan them and keep dragging them out, then you can move on.

Case in point, less than one short year ago, all we were reading was about the imminent demise of the Cats; 0-8, Art Briles, Kent Austin. Before that the Bombers were on their death bed; Joe Mack, Mike Kelly. The league itself suffered; Orridge is no Cohon. Well all three of those situations did not take ten years to resolve themselves.

The situations you describe are not analogous. Sure the Ticats were 0-8, but they weren't struggling with attendance. Nor were the Bombers when they had Mack and Kelly. Obviously it is possible to turn around the on-field product in a hurry -- the 2017 Argos are a fine example of that. But we are dealing off the field with the legacy of three and a half decades of terrible or non-existent marketing, neglectful or horrible ownership, and the rise of a lot of serious competition for sports fans' attention in this market. It cannot and will not be turned around on a dime, much as we might wish it could.

[rdavies]

It cannot and will not be turned around on a dime, much as we might wish it could.

Ottawa Redblacks hit the ground running with the added stigma of two failed franchises behind it. And they had nowhere near the resources of MLSE. All they had was a guy who knew what to do, problem is Toronto doesn't seem to have that guy. And now I'm being hypocritical bitching about it which doesn't help at all.

[Argo57]

Ottawa Redblacks hit the ground running with the added stigma of two failed franchises behind it. And they had nowhere near the resources of MLSE. All they had was a guy who knew what to do, problem is Toronto doesn't seem to have that guy. And now I'm being hypocritical bitching about it which doesn't help at all.

Ottawa Redblacks aren’t battling the Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and TFC for attention either.

[OV Argo]

Ottawa Redblacks aren’t battling the Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and TFC for attention either.

Toronto has about at least 5 times the demographic of Ottawa to draw fans from; and the Senators are huge here, plus there is a minor baseball team playing at a nice ballpark here; and there is a pro soccer team that plays at Lansdowne to compete for fans. Again - 5 x the demographic to draw from and they can barely get 15K fans, yet Ottawa has no problem filling Lansdowne for CFL games ?

Ottawa has a smart ownership group who understand CFL football.

BUT - Ottawa just does not (IMO) face the same degree of wannabeness that has been foisted on the GTA for decades - led by the snickering "world class" dweebs in the media and all their sheep/lemming like followers who got told the CFL was 2nd rate and not worth any attention. This factor is HUGE IMO and cannot be under-stated. Impossible to over-come? - maybe, but maybe not ?

[rdavies]

Ottawa Redblacks aren’t battling the Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and TFC for attention either.

Do you really think the same people are making those choices? I know I wouldn't be at a TFC or Raptors game. I've been offered Leafs and Raptors tickets and couldn't be bothered. Plus the Leafs and Raps are irrelevant because they don't share the same season with CFL. That leaves the Jays and TFC and in my case only the Jays would be competition and with 81 home games you can see them anytime.

And although I might not agree with the way OV Argo states things sometime, I often agree with the sentiment. Argo fans are very reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back at others who are fighting dirty. That has not helped them from getting kicked around from many angles.

[ArgoGabe22]

Plus the Leafs and Raps are irrelevant because they don't share the same season with CFL. That leaves the Jays and TFC and in my case only the Jays would be competition and with 81 home games you can see them anytime.

People, especially families, may only choose to spend money on one or a few events per year. Doesn’t necessarily have to share same season as the Argos. For me, it’s always been the Argos. I won’t pour money into other the teams. Plus there’s a lot of other non-sporting events that take place too.

[Argo57]

Do you really think the same people are making those choices? I know I wouldn't be at a TFC or Raptors game. I've been offered Leafs and Raptors tickets and couldn't be bothered. Plus the Leafs and Raps are irrelevant because they don't share the same season with CFL. That leaves the Jays and TFC and in my case only the Jays would be competition and with 81 home games you can see them anytime.

And although I might not agree with the way OV Argo states things sometime, I often agree with the sentiment. Argo fans are very reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back at others who are fighting dirty. That has not helped them from getting kicked around from many angles.

Actually in many cases I do.
I have been an Argo fan for 40 years and have had season seats for the majority of them, I also wear Argonaut gear to “fly the flag” so to speak and talk up the team and CFL to anyone that will listen.
Truth is over the last 35 or so years various Argonaut ownership groups have been the masters of their own demise in this market and it will be a slow climb out of it.
As for your assertion that Argofans are reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back I would argue that purchasing tickets and attending games is the only way to fight back as a fan, it’s the organizations job to get their shit together to start filling the seats (which seems to be starting to happen).
With all this said I’d love to hear your detailed plan in “putting on the gloves and swinging back at others that are fighting dirty”?

[rdavies]

With all this said I’d love to hear your detailed plan in “putting on the gloves and swinging back at others that are fighting dirty”?

And that's just what I mean, people who think they are too far above it to bother getting into the fray or are naively clueless. Anything that is worth saving is worth fighting for.

When you go online to the CFL sites and all you see is negative things about the Argos and the CFL, do you honestly think it's the Argo and CFL fans who are doing that? It's people who want to see the CFL and Argos DEAD! But no, ol' RDavies is paranoid and we'll just give him the condescension treatment and we'll just be nice folk until the franchise goes into the ground.

Are some people too old to know that the social medias are how the future fans get their news and communicate. If they see nothing but bad and negative news without rebuttal who do you think they are gonna believe? They're gonna believe the guy who posted the negative news because the new possible "fan" doesn't know any better.

But those guys who want to see the CFL and Argos dead don't think like that. And when MLSE didn't run the operation the way they thought they were loud about their protests. They definitely subscribe to the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

So we'll just meekly accept the situation and muddle along and muzzle crazy old rdavies and then close the thread, so discourse (civil or otherwise) doesn't happen.

Nope, there's nobody out there hoping the Argos die and insidiously posting in many places to that end to try and influence people to hurry it on. Not happening at all.

Ok, I got my frustration out and I'm not directly pointing fingers at anybody, especially those who are loyal ticket buyers and supporters but there has to be a recognition of this issue. And I recognize "mainstream" media and trolls alike for this behaviour, it's real easy to kick somebody when you let them. A little pushback from the Argos community would be well served. Would it kill some people to respond to a Trash Madani or Damien Cox article and let them know what you think.

[R.J]

Actually in many cases I do.
I have been an Argo fan for 40 years and have had season seats for the majority of them, I also wear Argonaut gear to “fly the flag” so to speak and talk up the team and CFL to anyone that will listen.
Truth is over the last 35 or so years various Argonaut ownership groups have been the masters of their own demise in this market and it will be a slow climb out of it.
As for your assertion that Argofans are reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back I would argue that purchasing tickets and attending games is the only way to fight back as a fan, it’s the organizations job to get their shit together to start filling the seats (which seems to be starting to happen).
With all this said I’d love to hear your detailed plan in “putting on the gloves and swinging back at others that are fighting dirty”?

Fans sometimes do have to make those choices. I'm a season ticket holder for the Argos, Rock, Leafs and Ticats - if I had to only pick two of them: I'd go with the Argos and Rock. As of right now I'm still trying to figure out if I want to get season tickets for either the Marlies or Steelheads, and with that I'll probably drop my Ticat tickets - my dollars can only stretch so far lol.

And that's just what I mean, people who think they are too far above it to bother getting into the fray or are naively clueless. Anything that is worth saving is worth fighting for.

When you go online to the CFL sites and all you see is negative things about the Argos and the CFL, do you honestly think it's the Argo and CFL fans who are doing that? It's people who want to see the CFL and Argos DEAD! But no, ol' RDavies is paranoid and we'll just give him the condescension treatment and we'll just be nice folk until the franchise goes into the ground.

Are some people too old to know that the social medias are how the future fans get their news and communicate. If they see nothing but bad and negative news without rebuttal who do you think they are gonna believe? They're gonna believe the guy who posted the negative news because the new possible "fan" doesn't know any better.

But those guys who want to see the CFL and Argos dead don't think like that. And when MLSE didn't run the operation the way they thought they were loud about their protests. They definitely subscribe to the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

So we'll just meekly accept the situation and muddle along and muzzle crazy old rdavies and then close the thread, so discourse (civil or otherwise) doesn't happen.

Nope, there's nobody out there hoping the Argos die and insidiously posting in many places to that end to try and influence people to hurry it on. Not happening at all.

Ok, I got my frustration out and I'm not directly pointing fingers at anybody, especially those who are loyal ticket buyers and supporters but there has to be a recognition of this issue. And I recognize "mainstream" media and trolls alike for this behaviour, it's real easy to kick somebody when you let them. A little pushback from the Argos community would be well served. Would it kill some people to respond to a Trash Madani or Damien Cox article and let them know what you think.

Where's your cape ?

[rdavies]

Where's your cape ?

And there's just one small reason why the Argos are in the shitter. How's the sand down there?

[ArgoGabe22]

And there's just one small reason why the Argos are in the shitter. How's the sand down there?

Thanks a lot RJ. You and your penny pinching ways and that great idea of initiating blackouts. Then you decided to bring in the Blue Jays and helped promote this major league attitude. Then you allow media members to diss the CFL, or just completely ignore its existence all together. If I knew you were the problem, I would've not allowed you to take things this far.

[rdavies]

You're still blaming the blackout and the Jays? Are you friggin' serious? Why don't you blame the day King Krol got a bad haircut as the starting of the demise. Time to close the thread and bury our heads in the sand, the usual response.

[Will]

Didn't this thread start as "picking up the pieces" from an 0-2 start?