Picking up the pieces

[rdavies]

Argos rebuild is to take 10 years according to Manning.

I think people just have to stop talking and start doing just like they did here. You wanna tailgate then tailgate, you shouldn't need the front office to take you by the hand.

As for the ten year rebuild, that's fine if he wants to say that but turnarounds can happen on a dime and if problems are dealt with and people of influence don't bemoan them and keep dragging them out, then you can move on.

Case in point, less than one short year ago, all we were reading was about the imminent demise of the Cats; 0-8, Art Briles, Kent Austin. Before that the Bombers were on their death bed; Joe Mack, Mike Kelly. The league itself suffered; Orridge is no Cohon. Well all three of those situations did not take ten years to resolve themselves.

I was at another site and it came to me how little talk there was of the actual games themselves. All there seems to be often times is bitching and bandwagonning on something we already know is a problem. Ok, the Argos have to rebuild their audience, can we look at that without the constant repetition of how bad it is (relatively speaking) Can someone tell me what actual good that serves. How does it help?

Saw a great interview with national soccer coach John Herdman on Tim and Sid. He said the national team had a lot of doubters and naysayers but he said something that has always resonated with me even before he said it. He said we have a plan to go somewhere and if you don't like it get the hell outta the way, because we're doin' it.

I see some of that in Ambrosie (in a kinder, gentler way) but wish the Argos perhaps could be a lot more aggressive. Seriously, is there anything left to lose. Manning is talking about incrementally increasing attendance, what is the shift that will cause that even marginally.

Something I'd like to see the league do that the NHL did/does?. Have games broadcast in Mandarin and Punjabi. I never thought about it until one of the broadcasters related how he had a little old Indian lady come up to him with a team shirt on (can't remember which team) Anyway she felt involved and included and was able to converse with family and others about the local team. She becomes involved and so does the family.

[Argofan_1000]

I think people just have to stop talking and start doing just like they did here. You wanna tailgate then tailgate, you shouldn't need the front office to take you by the hand.

As for the ten year rebuild, that's fine if he wants to say that but turnarounds can happen on a dime and if problems are dealt with and people of influence don't bemoan them and keep dragging them out, then you can move on.

Case in point, less than one short year ago, all we were reading was about the imminent demise of the Cats; 0-8, Art Briles, Kent Austin. Before that the Bombers were on their death bed; Joe Mack, Mike Kelly. The league itself suffered; Orridge is no Cohon. Well all three of those situations did not take ten years to resolve themselves.

I was at another site and it came to me how little talk there was of the actual games themselves. All there seems to be often times is bitching and bandwagonning on something we already know is a problem. Ok, the Argos have to rebuild their audience, can we look at that without the constant repetition of how bad it is (relatively speaking) Can someone tell me what actual good that serves. How does it help?

Saw a great interview with national soccer coach John Herdman on Tim and Sid. He said the national team had a lot of doubters and naysayers but he said something that has always resonated with me even before he said it. He said we have a plan to go somewhere and if you don't like it get the hell outta the way, because we're doin' it.

I see some of that in Ambrosie (in a kinder, gentler way) but wish the Argos perhaps could be a lot more aggressive. Seriously, is there anything left to lose. Manning is talking about incrementally increasing attendance, what is the shift that will cause that even marginally.

Something I'd like to see the league do that the NHL did/does?. Have games broadcast in Mandarin and Punjabi. I never thought about it until one of the broadcasters related how he had a little old Indian lady come up to him with a team shirt on (can't remember which team) Anyway she felt involved and included and was able to converse with family and others about the local team. She becomes involved and so does the family.

I did see lots of new Canadians at the game on Sat wearing their double blue. Anyone else notice? I was in 110

[paulwoods13]

As for the ten year rebuild, that's fine if he wants to say that but turnarounds can happen on a dime and if problems are dealt with and people of influence don't bemoan them and keep dragging them out, then you can move on.

Case in point, less than one short year ago, all we were reading was about the imminent demise of the Cats; 0-8, Art Briles, Kent Austin. Before that the Bombers were on their death bed; Joe Mack, Mike Kelly. The league itself suffered; Orridge is no Cohon. Well all three of those situations did not take ten years to resolve themselves.

The situations you describe are not analogous. Sure the Ticats were 0-8, but they weren't struggling with attendance. Nor were the Bombers when they had Mack and Kelly. Obviously it is possible to turn around the on-field product in a hurry -- the 2017 Argos are a fine example of that. But we are dealing off the field with the legacy of three and a half decades of terrible or non-existent marketing, neglectful or horrible ownership, and the rise of a lot of serious competition for sports fans' attention in this market. It cannot and will not be turned around on a dime, much as we might wish it could.

[rdavies]

It cannot and will not be turned around on a dime, much as we might wish it could.

Ottawa Redblacks hit the ground running with the added stigma of two failed franchises behind it. And they had nowhere near the resources of MLSE. All they had was a guy who knew what to do, problem is Toronto doesn't seem to have that guy. And now I'm being hypocritical bitching about it which doesn't help at all.

[Argo57]

Ottawa Redblacks hit the ground running with the added stigma of two failed franchises behind it. And they had nowhere near the resources of MLSE. All they had was a guy who knew what to do, problem is Toronto doesn't seem to have that guy. And now I'm being hypocritical bitching about it which doesn't help at all.

Ottawa Redblacks aren’t battling the Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and TFC for attention either.

[OV Argo]

Ottawa Redblacks aren’t battling the Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and TFC for attention either.

Toronto has about at least 5 times the demographic of Ottawa to draw fans from; and the Senators are huge here, plus there is a minor baseball team playing at a nice ballpark here; and there is a pro soccer team that plays at Lansdowne to compete for fans. Again - 5 x the demographic to draw from and they can barely get 15K fans, yet Ottawa has no problem filling Lansdowne for CFL games ?

Ottawa has a smart ownership group who understand CFL football.

BUT - Ottawa just does not (IMO) face the same degree of wannabeness that has been foisted on the GTA for decades - led by the snickering "world class" dweebs in the media and all their sheep/lemming like followers who got told the CFL was 2nd rate and not worth any attention. This factor is HUGE IMO and cannot be under-stated. Impossible to over-come? - maybe, but maybe not ?

[rdavies]

Ottawa Redblacks aren’t battling the Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and TFC for attention either.

Do you really think the same people are making those choices? I know I wouldn't be at a TFC or Raptors game. I've been offered Leafs and Raptors tickets and couldn't be bothered. Plus the Leafs and Raps are irrelevant because they don't share the same season with CFL. That leaves the Jays and TFC and in my case only the Jays would be competition and with 81 home games you can see them anytime.

And although I might not agree with the way OV Argo states things sometime, I often agree with the sentiment. Argo fans are very reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back at others who are fighting dirty. That has not helped them from getting kicked around from many angles.

[ArgoGabe22]

Plus the Leafs and Raps are irrelevant because they don't share the same season with CFL. That leaves the Jays and TFC and in my case only the Jays would be competition and with 81 home games you can see them anytime.

People, especially families, may only choose to spend money on one or a few events per year. Doesn’t necessarily have to share same season as the Argos. For me, it’s always been the Argos. I won’t pour money into other the teams. Plus there’s a lot of other non-sporting events that take place too.

[Argo57]

Do you really think the same people are making those choices? I know I wouldn't be at a TFC or Raptors game. I've been offered Leafs and Raptors tickets and couldn't be bothered. Plus the Leafs and Raps are irrelevant because they don't share the same season with CFL. That leaves the Jays and TFC and in my case only the Jays would be competition and with 81 home games you can see them anytime.

And although I might not agree with the way OV Argo states things sometime, I often agree with the sentiment. Argo fans are very reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back at others who are fighting dirty. That has not helped them from getting kicked around from many angles.

Actually in many cases I do.
I have been an Argo fan for 40 years and have had season seats for the majority of them, I also wear Argonaut gear to “fly the flag” so to speak and talk up the team and CFL to anyone that will listen.
Truth is over the last 35 or so years various Argonaut ownership groups have been the masters of their own demise in this market and it will be a slow climb out of it.
As for your assertion that Argofans are reluctant to put on the gloves and swing back I would argue that purchasing tickets and attending games is the only way to fight back as a fan, it’s the organizations job to get their shit together to start filling the seats (which seems to be starting to happen).
With all this said I’d love to hear your detailed plan in “putting on the gloves and swinging back at others that are fighting dirty”?

[rdavies]

With all this said I’d love to hear your detailed plan in “putting on the gloves and swinging back at others that are fighting dirty”?

And that's just what I mean, people who think they are too far above it to bother getting into the fray or are naively clueless. Anything that is worth saving is worth fighting for.

When you go online to the CFL sites and all you see is negative things about the Argos and the CFL, do you honestly think it's the Argo and CFL fans who are doing that? It's people who want to see the CFL and Argos DEAD! But no, ol' RDavies is paranoid and we'll just give him the condescension treatment and we'll just be nice folk until the franchise goes into the ground.

Are some people too old to know that the social medias are how the future fans get their news and communicate. If they see nothing but bad and negative news without rebuttal who do you think they are gonna believe? They're gonna believe the guy who posted the negative news because the new possible "fan" doesn't know any better.

But those guys who want to see the CFL and Argos dead don't think like that. And when MLSE didn't run the operation the way they thought they were loud about their protests. They definitely subscribe to the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

So we'll just meekly accept the situation and muddle along and muzzle crazy old rdavies and then close the thread, so discourse (civil or otherwise) doesn't happen.

Nope, there's nobody out there hoping the Argos die and insidiously posting in many places to that end to try and influence people to hurry it on. Not happening at all.

Ok, I got my frustration out and I'm not directly pointing fingers at anybody, especially those who are loyal ticket buyers and supporters but there has to be a recognition of this issue. And I recognize "mainstream" media and trolls alike for this behaviour, it's real easy to kick somebody when you let them. A little pushback from the Argos community would be well served. Would it kill some people to respond to a Trash Madani or Damien Cox article and let them know what you think.