CFL and Argos looking at solution for BMO end zone turf and attendance problems

[gilthethrill]

Well I guess I better enjoy the last 3 seasons! Seriously though, are you new to the CFL? We are light years ahead of where the league was in the late nineties (the last time deaths door was knocking).

I envision a TFC jersey on Bruro when he posted his dire prediction.☺

[halifaxguy]

cfl sadly is simply dying in Canada's three biggest markets. Cant see it going on much longer, especially after TSN's contract ends in 2021 (only thing keeping the league afloat). Its not a coincidence as well that all three of those markets have MLS franchises now, sucking up even more oxygen in the sporting landscape during the summer/fall months. Their schedules are almost identical (cfl and mls).

The TV contract is worth $4 Million to each team, that's not a lot of money when you look at a team's revenue. You can look at the books of the public teams, Riders, Bombers and Esks and see that they all have similar revenues of around $37 Million. The teams have a lot of expense close to $36 million and the TV revenue helps but it's certainly not keeping the league afloat. The CFL is still a gate driven league and must rely on attendance for most of their revenue.

Who knows what will happen in 2021 with the TV contract, the league certainly can't hang their hopes on a potential rise in the TV contract especially with the amount of customers cutting the cord and more streaming. The TV revenue is such a small part of revenue now and the contract may be worth less in the future.
Teams are making just as much in revenue from things like the luxury suites, club seats viewing patios with bars etc

[Topshelf]

Only solution is a dirt endzone.
TFCs most vocal and organized fans are behind that goal. It isnt like the Argos are packing the place, so I think TFCs wishes will come ahead.
You can't maintain grass back there. You can't move the TFC seats further back, and you can't go to an artificial surface for the whole stadium as we have the world cup coming in 8 years.
Long term, you have to assume there will be another major renovation for the world cup. Hopefully the Argos needs are considered when any changes are made to the seating area.

[halifaxguy]

Only solution is a dirt endzone.
TFCs most vocal and organized fans are behind that goal. It isnt like the Argos are packing the place, so I think TFCs wishes will come ahead.
You can't maintain grass back there. You can't move the TFC seats further back, and you can't go to an artificial surface for the whole stadium as we have the world cup coming in 8 years.
Long term, you have to assume there will be another major renovation for the world cup. Hopefully the Argos needs are considered when any changes are made to the seating area.

Dirt end zone? I assume that the end zones right now have concrete to support the temp stands and for a base for the artificial turf. I don't think dirt on top of concrete would be a good surface.
No doubt that there will be major renovations for the World Cup, 30k to 55k so I am sure that there will be some huge end zone stands going in there and they won't be sliding in and out. I predict the Argos won't be playing there in the summer of 2026

[Bruro]

https://nationalpost.com/sports/foot...n-some-markets

While CFL has traditionally been a gate driven league, that has changed in the last five years with TSN. Attendance has plummeted to almost all time lows in some markets were if the revenue was primarily gate driven those franchises would have folded long ago. Argos averaged 13000 fans last season, worst in its post war history! Attendance is dropping to dangerous levels as well in Vancouver and Montreal where CFL talk, like Toronto, is nearly non-existent now. Tfc, whitecaps and the Impact are the cool kids on the block now in summer/fall now making it even more difficult for the CFL in those markets. 2021 could honestly be armageddon for the CFL when the TSN contract expires (they in essence own the league now with that TV contract). The league may look a whole lot different in 5 years. Hopefully they can get franchises in Halifax and Quebec City. Would help a lot.

[Bruro]

You can thank TSN for that. Without them CFL is even less relevant in the sporting landscape than the late 90s, if thats even possible

[ArgoZ]

Dirt end zone? I assume that the end zones right now have concrete to support the temp stands and for a base for the artificial turf. I don't think dirt on top of concrete would be a good surface.
No doubt that there will be major renovations for the World Cup, 30k to 55k so I am sure that there will be some huge end zone stands going in there and they won't be sliding in and out. I predict the Argos won't be playing there in the summer of 2026

BMO Field will not be hosting any of the knockout games, so we are talking a month, probably all of June, at the most. Easiest solution would be to play the Argos on the road for 3 weeks, and adding a bye. If the schedule lines up to sneak a home game in before the World Cup, even better.

I think the World Cup renovations do indeed provide an opportunity to restructure the stands so a full CFL grass field can be used. Both North and South stands are going to be drastically changed.

[halifaxguy]

https://nationalpost.com/sports/foot...n-some-markets

While CFL has traditionally been a gate driven league, that has changed in the last five years with TSN. Attendance has plummeted to almost all time lows in some markets were if the revenue was primarily gate driven those franchises would have folded long ago. Argos averaged 13000 fans last season, worst in its post war history! Attendance is dropping to dangerous levels as well in Vancouver and Montreal where CFL talk, like Toronto, is nearly non-existent now. Tfc, whitecaps and the Impact are the cool kids on the block now in summer/fall now making it even more difficult for the CFL in those markets. 2021 could honestly be armageddon for the CFL when the TSN contract expires (they in essence own the league now with that TV contract). The league may look a whole lot different in 5 years. Hopefully they can get franchises in Halifax and Quebec City. Would help a lot.

I agree, attendance has dropped to dangerous levels in Vancouver and Montreal too, they are losing money big time and only surviving because of dedicated owners like Braley and Wetenhall who are absorbing the losses. It has not changed in the last five years with TSN, CFL teams were collecting $4 million a year from TSN 5 seasons ago and still collecting the same $4M today and that hasn't changed and will not change until after 2021

Here are the numbers for the Riders, and as you can see the TSN contract represents only 11% of revenues.
Gate Receipts 45% and related to gate receipts are concessions at 4% and merchandise at 18%, in stadium sponsors 17%

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...rt1718_web.pdf

[argolio]

Franchise has a value of 250 million.

In the real world, no one would pay anything close to that.

[Bruro]

[QUOTE=argolio;129302]In the real world, no one would pay anything close to that.[/QUOT

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thes...to-forbes.html

[1971GreyCup]

[QUOTE=Bruro;129315]

In the real world, no one would pay anything close to that.[/QUOT

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thes...to-forbes.html

How does Forbes figure the BMO Field renovations add to the value of TFC? The investment MLSE was made to a city owned facility. Far from accretive to franchise value. I doubt that the additional seats cover the investment. Would love to understand the methodology. Likely franchise value is all attributed to new franchise fees. How many future franchises are going to be willing to come up with that kind’ve money given player contracts, TV contracts and ticket sales? Time will tell.

[argolio]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thes...to-forbes.html

Call me when someone gets anything close to those Forbes values. Hasn't happened yet.

[Argofan_1000]

The TV contract is worth $4 Million to each team, that's not a lot of money when you look at a team's revenue. You can look at the books of the public teams, Riders, Bombers and Esks and see that they all have similar revenues of around $37 Million. The teams have a lot of expense close to $36 million and the TV revenue helps but it's certainly not keeping the league afloat. The CFL is still a gate driven league and must rely on attendance for most of their revenue.

Who knows what will happen in 2021 with the TV contract, the league certainly can't hang their hopes on a potential rise in the TV contract especially with the amount of customers cutting the cord and more streaming. The TV revenue is such a small part of revenue now and the contract may be worth less in the future.
Teams are making just as much in revenue from things like the luxury suites, club seats viewing patios with bars etc

I will pay extra to TSN if they block all MLS, MLB and probably some others for me. I will even pay double.

[halifaxguy]

I will pay extra to TSN if they block all MLS, MLB and probably some others for me. I will even pay double.

Why not do what I do - I don't watch them.

Trying to figure out why TSN is paying the Ottawa Senators $400 MILLION over 12 years to televise 60 of their games a year, it works out to $33 MILLION a year.
The TSN Sens games are only avilable in the Ottawa area.
Yet TSN will pay the CFL only $42 million to broadcast over 70 CFL games which works out to $4.2 MIllion a year per team.
Based on ratings?

https://ottawasun.com/2014/01/29/liv...9-0c9352b14533

[Mightygoose]

TSN paid the rights to the Sens on the heels of losing the NHL national rights to Rogers and didn't want to lose regional rights. Demand increased the rights like anything else in business.

When the CFL rights we're last up for grabs, Bell was essentially competing with themselves. Now that Rogers has bought into the Argos with the possibility of a 10th team and the league's partnership with Corus/Shaw in the Grey Cup presenting rights, there will very likely be more players involved next time around.

[halifaxguy]

TSN paid the rights to the Sens on the heels of losing the NHL national rights to Rogers and didn't want to lose regional rights. Demand increased the rights like anything else in business.

When the CFL rights we're last up for grabs, Bell was essentially competing with themselves. Now that Rogers has bought into the Argos with the possibility of a 10th team and the league's partnership with Corus/Shaw in the Grey Cup presenting rights, there will very likely be more players involved next time around.

Who knows what will happen by 2022, but with millions cutting the cord and more people every year "streaming" programs and young people watching on their Iphones and tablets, the traditional TV rights and contracts just won't be the same.
When the CFL rights were last up for grabs there was no "streaming" or millions cutting cable and satellite.
By 2021 TSN will be scrambling to keep as much as they can to fill their 5 TV channels and hoping that people who have cut the cord will buy into their streaming service.
Rogers has the NHL and the Jays wrapped up until 2025, higher ratings, a younger market and 12 months of hockey and baseball. Rogers will likely pass on the CFL and let TSN renew it, that's the problem with a Bell/Rogers partnership, they just divvy up the market.

[Mightygoose]

Who knows what will happen by 2022, but with millions cutting the cord and more people every year "streaming" programs and young people watching on their Iphones and tablets, the traditional TV rights and contracts just won't be the same.
When the CFL rights were last up for grabs there was no "streaming" or millions cutting cable and satellite.
By 2021 TSN will be scrambling to keep as much as they can to fill their 5 TV channels and hoping that people who have cut the cord will buy into their streaming service.
Rogers has the NHL and the Jays wrapped up until 2025, higher ratings, a younger market and 12 months of hockey and baseball. Rogers will likely pass on the CFL and let TSN renew it, that's the problem with a Bell/Rogers partnership, they just divvy up the market.

Both Rogers and Bell both have streaming only options now.

Yes 4-5 years is still a long ways from now but as you say, networks want to fill airtime. Rogers would more likely go for 1, no more than 2 games a week to compliment their Jays coverage and also have a robust property as opposed to the Jays that will be feast or famine depending on how competing they are.

Rogers and Bell split up the Raptors and Leafs regional right with no issue

[paulwoods13]

This presumed that Rogers and Bell (and other cable providers and networks) still exist in 2022. The pace of change in the media world is unprecedented and I would not bet on the landscape being anything like it is now.

[Argofan_1000]

The TV contract is worth $4 Million to each team, that's not a lot of money when you look at a team's revenue. You can look at the books of the public teams, Riders, Bombers and Esks and see that they all have similar revenues of around $37 Million. The teams have a lot of expense close to $36 million and the TV revenue helps but it's certainly not keeping the league afloat. The CFL is still a gate driven league and must rely on attendance for most of their revenue.

Who knows what will happen in 2021 with the TV contract, the league certainly can't hang their hopes on a potential rise in the TV contract especially with the amount of customers cutting the cord and more streaming. The TV revenue is such a small part of revenue now and the contract may be worth less in the future.
Teams are making just as much in revenue from things like the luxury suites, club seats viewing patios with bars etc

I agree with you, the current TV contract is not a lot of money per team. I would like to see every team's business plan eliminate the TV revenue from their plan and what ever it is, that is the team profit. Revenue sharing and a nation wide strategy for sponsors and advertising could get them there. Sponsors fall over themselves for TFC and Raptors but only a few watch. WTF. I think there is a lot of upside to the CFL that the new commissioner is exploring and hope something breaks in this regard. A bank gives MLSE 80M a year for naming rights to the ACC. What the F for? Not happy with this

[doubleblue]

I agree, attendance has dropped to dangerous levels in Vancouver and Montreal too, they are losing money big time and only surviving because of dedicated owners like Braley and Wetenhall who are absorbing the losses. It has not changed in the last five years with TSN, CFL teams were collecting $4 million a year from TSN 5 seasons ago and still collecting the same $4M today and that hasn't changed and will not change until after 2021

Here are the numbers for the Riders, and as you can see the TSN contract represents only 11% of revenues.
Gate Receipts 45% and related to gate receipts are concessions at 4% and merchandise at 18%, in stadium sponsors 17%

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...rt1718_web.pdf

Do we know for sure the CFL didn't receive more for extending the contract? I never saw anything. Seemed to be all hush hush.