GAME THREAD / Week 6 / Winnipeg @ Toronto

[Argofan_1000]

I was going to discuss the holes I saw on offence and defence, but what I saw in the last twenty minutes of the game was simply one big hole covering every aspect of the Argo team.

So team is BAD - got it - no desire - no hussle today - question - where are all the fans? It can't be, in a city of 6M we can't get 20K out for a game. I just can't understand this.

[dmont]

.

Just like 2016, I'm really not liking this Stubler-style "bend but dont break" defense. Im no great football mind, but it seems to me this type of defense is so complicated that you need the right/awesome defensive players to make it work. Otherwise it's a disaster. I dont think our secondary is good enough and our linebackers are too depleted. Second-down defense is terrible. If I were the opposing offense, I would throw the ball all day because we give up at least 10 yards on most second downs.

The story of the 2018 Argos is underperforming veterans. Heath and Yell came in with high billing but have not lived up to the hype. Kanneh was a late addition, but I dont have confidence in him either. I'm liking Trumaine Washington and thought Dowling didnt look out of place last game.

On offense, the o line is good (not great) at pass protection, but they're not doing enough to open up the run game. Franklin seems to have adequate (if not ample) time to get the ball out.

I like the emergence of Rodney Smith, although I dont know if he represents that burner needed to stretch the defense. I thought Williams improved today, not with a ton of catches but he was where he needed to be and drew a key penalty.

D-line is not getting enough pressure. Chalk it up to injuries and personnel losses (butler).

The Pfeffer situation needs to get resolved.

I think another season like 2016 would be a long-term disaster. I dont think it's a coincidence that attendance fell off a cliff that year. It was just a horrible team to watch and the games felt out of reach by the end of the first quarter. I dont understand how this team can play respectably on the road, but be completely out of sorts at home.

[smokeslet'sgo]

The good thing is almost no one saw the game at BMO as it was the lowest attended regular season game there ever.

I believe this is actually the smallest crowd in the teams' entire history in the modern CFL, not counting pre-season games. I've still been to Jays games with much smaller crowds though (actual people not announced attendance)

[Will]

Offence

Bad

- Why was Franklin forced to try and be a pocket pass today?

Defence

Bad

Special Teams

Bad

Trestman is no longer blameless either. All three phases of his football team are awful right now.

Neither the offence or defence have any imagination. Opponents are not fooled.

[smokeslet'sgo]

.I think another season like 2016 would be a long-term disaster. I dont think it's a coincidence that attendance fell off a cliff that year. It was just a horrible team to watch and the games felt out of reach by the end of the first quarter. I dont understand how this team can play respectably on the road, but be completely out of sorts at home.

That first game blowout against Hamilton at the highly-anticipated and hyped BMO opener sealed the Argos' fate I believe. Almost 25,000 people packing the stadium, a fantastic atmosphere, an actually pro-Argo crowd against Hamilton for once, and they played a terrible game and many people were gone by halftime, never to return again. If the Argos had won that game, things might be different. Maybe not selling out, but 18-20k crowds or so. I think that one game basically ruined this team. It was more important than any Grey Cup game

[R.J]

Offence

Bad

- Why was Franklin forced to try and be a pocket pass today?

Defence

Bad

Special Teams

Bad

Trestman is no longer blameless either. All three phases of his football team are awful right now.

Neither the offence or defence have any imagination. Opponents are not fooled.

Don Argo, I think you know the answer to the question.

[Will]

Don Argo, I think you know the answer to the question.

BTW, McCluster replaces Jackson IMO.

[Argo57]

.

Just like 2016, I'm really not liking this Stubler-style "bend but dont break" defense. Im no great football mind, but it seems to me this type of defense is so complicated that you need the right/awesome defensive players to make it work. Otherwise it's a disaster. I dont think our secondary is good enough and our linebackers are too depleted. Second-down defense is terrible. If I were the opposing offense, I would throw the ball all day because we give up at least 10 yards on most second downs.

The story of the 2018 Argos is underperforming veterans. Heath and Yell came in with high billing but have not lived up to the hype. Kanneh was a late addition, but I dont have confidence in him either. I'm liking Trumaine Washington and thought Dowling didnt look out of place last game.

On offense, the o line is good (not great) at pass protection, but they're not doing enough to open up the run game. Franklin seems to have adequate (if not ample) time to get the ball out.

I like the emergence of Rodney Smith, although I dont know if he represents that burner needed to stretch the defense. I thought Williams improved today, not with a ton of catches but he was where he needed to be and drew a key penalty.

D-line is not getting enough pressure. Chalk it up to injuries and personnel losses (butler).

The Pfeffer situation needs to get resolved.

I think another season like 2016 would be a long-term disaster. I dont think it's a coincidence that attendance fell off a cliff that year. It was just a horrible team to watch and the games felt out of reach by the end of the first quarter. I dont understand how this team can play respectably on the road, but be completely out of sorts at home.

Well summarized.
Argos track record following Grey Cup victories not great, coaching and player turnover seems to bite this franchise after winning a championship.
Corey Chamblin sorely missed at this point, guys really bought into his schemes last season, don’t get the same sense with Archer as DC.
Kanneh’s brain cramp left him 10 yards behind Winnipeg’s receiver on the first TD, add poor tackling, no pass rush and poor coverage by the rest of the defensive backfield and here we are.
Find a new kicker period, this team nowhere near good enough to give up sure points through inept FG kicking.
O-line mediocre at best, Wilder reverting to early 2017 form and a receiving group that cannot stretch the field add to the disastrous start to the season.
Franklin not blameless in all of this but you can see the talent and potential he possesses, hopefully his development doesn’t get derailed through all of this.

[R.J]

BTW, McCluster replaces Jackson IMO.

I was talking about forcing Franklin to stay in the pocket - Trestman is the answer.

Maybe McCluster does replace Jackson, but Wilder doesn't deserve a free pass. I get that the oline is playing horribly, but Wilder is making even worse decisions because he's not very good up the gut. IMO it looks like he avoids running north/south unless he has space. I still think he reminds me of Chevon Walker.

[Argo57]

I was talking about forcing Franklin to stay in the pocket - Trestman is the answer.

Maybe McCluster does replace Jackson, but Wilder doesn't deserve a free pass. I get that the oline is playing horribly, but Wilder is making even worse decisions because he's not very good up the gut. IMO it looks like he avoids running north/south unless he has space. I still think he reminds me of Chevon Walker.

Wilder looks like he did early last season.

[R.J]

Wilder looks like he did early last season.

And in the playoffs.

I've been saying for quite some time now that a runningback's primary job should be running the ball, but coaches seem to think it's blocking at #1 and pass catching at #2. Yeah, this is a "pass first" league, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the stronger offensive teams almost always have a strong run game.

[doubleblue]

Beautiful day for football, even the East side wouldn't have got scalded today. Don't know why 20,000 people will come to the soccer and Blue Jay games and not the Argos. Different bunch I get it. I would think there would be 20,000 diehards in the area instead of 10-12,000.

What changes does Trestman make for next friday? I would think McCluster in for Jackson. Bring Waters back for field goals. Smith should stay in at WR. Hope Van Zeyl isn't too badley injured.

Defense needs Bear Woods back in the middle. Maybe Tuggle could get more of a pass rush than Davis at DE, or as someone has suggested give Wynn a shot there. Opposing offenses are just playing pitch and catch against this laid back defense. Veteran DB's but QB's have too much time with no pass rush to speak of.
Trestman said this was a different team, but I don't think he was thinking it was this different.

[lazycro]

Very disappointed in the lack of use over Barry on D

[macspectrum]

Offence

Bad

- Why was Franklin forced to try and be a pocket pass today?

Defence

Bad

Special Teams

Bad

Trestman is no longer blameless either. All three phases of his football team are awful right now.

Neither the offence or defence have any imagination. Opponents are not fooled.

trestman needs to stop loving players and start yelling at them

[macspectrum]

Beautiful day for football, even the East side wouldn't have got scalded today. Don't know why 20,000 people will come to the soccer and Blue Jay games and not the Argos. Different bunch I get it. I would think there would be 20,000 diehards in the area instead of 10-12,000.

What changes does Trestman make for next friday? I would think McCluster in for Jackson. Bring Waters back for field goals. Smith should stay in at WR. Hope Van Zeyl isn't too badley injured.

Defense needs Bear Woods back in the middle. Maybe Tuggle could get more of a pass rush than Davis at DE, or as someone has suggested give Wynn a shot there. Opposing offenses are just playing pitch and catch against this laid back defense. Veteran DB's but QB's have too much time with no pass rush to speak of.
Trestman said this was a different team, but I don't think he was thinking it was this different.

play calls on d need to be more aggressive
more blitz and more man to man
zone d is getting killed
db are ball hawks - let em go after the ball - sure they will get beat but they will get knockdowns, int and swag !

[Bruro]

Time to face the bitter truth. Today was the smallest crowd to watch an Argo game at home in the post war era (exception of preseason and home games scheduled outside Toronto). 10,844 Thats right people. 10,844. These are the grey cup champions. 10,844! Beautiful aftrrnoon for football. 10,844! Let that sink in. Thats getting close to Las Vegas Posse numbers. Lets put this in perspective. 2017 the average attendance of the Toronto Wolfpack (rugby in case you never heard of them) was just shy of 7,000 at Lamport Stadium. 10,844! It surely rubs off on the players as well. This reminds me of the Alouettes circa 1986.is it time to pull the plug? 10,844! Thoughts? Perhaps the franchise can be moved to Halifax. What is the seating capacity at U of Guelph? Western University?

[R.J]

Time to face the bitter truth. Today was the smallest crowd to watch an Argo game at home in the post war era (exception of preseason and home games scheduled outside Toronto). 10,988. Thats right people. 10,988. These are the grey cup champions. 10,988! Beautiful aftrrnoon for football. 10,988! Let that sink in. Thats gettinf close to Las Vegas Posse numbers. 10,988! Even Lamport Stadium that wouldnt be a sellout. It surely rubs off on the players as well. This reminds me of the Alouettes circa 1986.is it time to pull the plug? Thoughts?

mikem/slimjim, you're back already ?

FYI, Lamport capacity: 9,600.

[Argo]

and in the playoffs.

I've been saying for quite some time now that a runningback's primary job should be running the ball.

^^^ t h i s ^^^

[Bruro]

Everyone bashes me for being an Argo cynic but ive been a life long fan since 1982. Poor management decisions have driven this franchise into the ground. For the sake of the CFL we should seriously consider either folding the franchise or moving it to a smaller Canadian city that would support good quality football. Today was embarrassing. Even TSNs camera angles couldnt hide it. Time to talk about the elephant in the room.

[Argo57]

Everyone bashes me for being an Argo cynic but ive been a life long fan since 1982. Poor management decisions have driven this franchise into the ground. For the sake of the CFL we should seriously consider either folding the franchise or moving it to a smaller Canadian city that would support good quality football. Today was embarrassing. Even TSNs camera angles couldnt hide it. Time to talk about the elephant in the room.

I’m sure future television rights owners would pay millions without a franchise in Canada’s largest city?