James Franklin

[Antwon]

I will continue to ignore won/loss statistics until the end of time. So will Ricky Ray, and the voters who will put him into the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility.

But leave stats out of it -- which QB has played better over the last four games played?

I’m tired of this debate. MBT has played very well the last 4 games. And the losses are not all on him. But it’s been well documented that SJ Green was wide open on the last play in Moncton. MBT locked in on a tightly covered receiver where the DB made the play. We lose. Lack of offensive adjustments and horrible coverage in the second half cost us the LDC.
And according to Popp’s interview yesterday they’re not giving up on the season. So I expect MBT to start a very winnable game in Ottawa.

Evans, Fajardo, Arbuckle may not have had better stats, but the teams are getting the wins. In part they are all around better teams and the QB’s are not losing games with poor play.

I think this team is more talented than last year…but still not enough to win. Maybe more of that has to do with coaching which has been poor to good throughout the season. (one comparison is Hamilton’s very good coaching made second half adjustments on O to combat the Argo rush, and on D with losing 3 starters)

Once they are mathematically eliminated, then other players should be playing to see what they can do.

[Nob]

Herein lies the dilemma - MBT is neither the cause of, or solution to, the Argos problems.....

[paulwoods13]

But it’s been well documented that SJ Green was wide open on the last play in Moncton. MBT locked in on a tightly covered receiver where the DB made the play. We lose.

From the replay it's evident it would have been better to throw to Green on that play. But we would not have been in position to score the winning TD had he not marched the team 90-plus yards in a minute. He didn't cause us to lose the game -- he gave us a chance to win. And again, four passes that should have been caught -- including the last one to Edwards -- were dropped.

Evans, Fajardo, Arbuckle may not have had better stats, but the teams are getting the wins. In part they are all around better teams and the QB’s are not losing games with poor play.

There is no doubt whatsoever that those are better teams, and I don't disagree with the notion that those QBs are not causing their teams to lose. But neither is MBT. The difference is that breakdowns attributable to others are causing this team to lose.

Maybe more of that has to do with coaching which has been poor to good throughout the season.

I'd love to know when the good part was.

[Will]

Herein lies the dilemma - MBT is neither the cause of, or solution to, the Argos problems.....

Kinda where I stand on him.

[Ron]

Green may have been wide open. Too bad MBT wasn't watching on TV or from the stands to see him.

[ArgoGabe22]

Hard to put a value on “IT” but MBT is a fine person, great teammate, competitive and is good but he lacks “IT” and without “IT”, team is going no where. But I’m not sure what “it” is. MBT just lacks something that the greats have.

[jerrym]

In comments today, Popp said MBT is playing very well, Collaros may not or may play play again this season because of his concussion but Popp still wants him for next year, and did not even mention Franklin. While I think MBT deserves a chance to play based on his last four games, I also feel the Argos need to find out what they do or do not have in Franklin. After all they have lost three young QBs in Harris, Collaros and Fajardo who turned into starters for other teams. There have been some pretty good QBs in the CFL who took a number of years to develop. For practical purposes we are all but out of the playoff race and we need to determine which of our young players are most likely to become starters.

[paulwoods13]

Hard to put a value on “IT” but MBT is a fine person, great teammate, competitive and is good but he lacks “IT” and without “IT”, team is going no where. But I’m not sure what “it” is. MBT just lacks something that the greats have.

How many of the current CFL QBs have "it"? If it's something only the greats have, I would say two: Mitchell and Reilly, one of whose team is going nowhere. And how often do teams up here find QBs who have "it"?

[paulwoods13]

In comments today, Popp said MBT is playing very well, Collaros may not or may play play again this season because of his concussion but Popp still wants him for next year, and did not even mention Franklin. While I think MBT deserves a chance to play based on his last four games, I also feel the Argos need to find out what they do or do not have in Franklin. After all they have lost three young QBs in Harris, Collaros and Fajardo who turned into starters for other teams. There have been some pretty good QBs in the CFL who took a number of years to develop. For practical purposes we are all but out of the playoff race and we need to determine which of our young players are most likely to become starters.

Be realistic -- there is no way this will even be considered until the team is mathematically eliminated. "For practical purposes out of the race" does not apply when there is still a mathematical chance. Teams do not throw in the towel when there is a chance, and playing a guy you rate lower for purposes of evaluation would amount to throwing in the towel.

[ArgoGabe22]

How many of the current CFL QBs have "it"? If it's something only the greats have, I would say two: Mitchell and Reilly, one of whose team is going nowhere. And how often do teams up here find QBs who have "it"?

Adams might have it. If we had Nichols or Harris and had their respected records, I still think Argo fans (online at least) would not be satisfied and would want to run them from town too. I'm definitely in the middle with MBT. Criticism is fair, especially with accuracy or on field vision but I also think the criticism has gone too far.

[jerrym]

Be realistic -- there is no way this will even be considered until the team is mathematically eliminated. "For practical purposes out of the race" does not apply when there is still a mathematical chance. Teams do not throw in the towel when there is a chance, and playing a guy you rate lower for purposes of evaluation would amount to throwing in the towel.

Read my comment carefully. I said MBT deserves to start. I said for practical purposes the Argos are out of the playoff picture. I did not say Franklin should start
the next game. My concern is that Popp seems to be overlooking Franklin and jumping to Collaros who Popp
admits may not even play this year and whose concussion history suggests he may not last long if he does come back. Is the team going to lose another young QB who became a starter for other teams as they have with Collaros, Harris and Fajardo?

[Shatto]

Yes, MBT has played well enough to have won games, recently. That is if he had a good team around him. However, the crucial question is " would we be confident if he was our starting QB next year?" If the answer is anything but a confident, " yes", then the team must determine if one of our present QB's could be that starting QB. If not the team has some serious shopping to do in the off season

[1971GreyCup]

Heaven help this franchise if we go to camp with the same QBs next year and have another deplorable year.

[RB957]

Kinda where I stand on him.

Exactly.

[RB957]

Yes, MBT has played well enough to have won games, recently. That is if he had a good team around him. However, the crucial question is " would we be confident if he was our starting QB next year?" If the answer is anything but a confident, " yes", then the team must determine if one of our present QB's could be that starting QB. If not the team has some serious shopping to do in the off season

I agree. I have not given up on the notion that James Franklin may still turn out to be a high calibre QB in the CFL... I just don't think it will be with the Argos. There are so many different dynamics to this situation, but for whatever reason, it does not appear that the football stars will ever align for him here. As I don't believe MBT is the answer, it is time to move on.

[paulwoods13]

As I don't believe MBT is the answer, it is time to move on.

Move on to whom? I can't see the Argos simply walking away from MBT without a suitable replacement in hand.

[1971GreyCup]

Didn’t Jim Barker clean house of the QBs after 2011 and fire himself as HC? He got Ricky Ray, but could have started the season with Jurias Jackson at QB with unknowns Trevor Harris and Zach Collaras as backups. It can be done. The #2 QBs in Winnipeg and Calgary will be available.

[Will]

Didn’t Jim Barker clean house of the QBs after 2011 and fire himself as HC? He got Ricky Ray, but could have started the season with Jurias Jackson at QB with unknowns Trevor Harris and Zach Collaras as backups. It can be done. The #2 QBs in Winnipeg and Calgary will be available.

After two years of Cleo Lemon-Steven Jyles-Dalton Bell, etc, etc you well know that with the 100th being in Toronto that it was impractical that the Argos would've gone into 2012 with Jarious Jackson as their starter.

[1971GreyCup]

After two years of Cleo Lemon-Steven Jyles-Dalton Bell, etc, etc you well know that with the 100th being in Toronto that it was impractical that the Argos would've gone into 2012 with Jarious Jackson as their starter.

If it wasn’t Ricky Ray, it sure wasn’t going to be any of those three. I can’t think who else in the league was available. Brailey sure wasn’t throwing money around either.

I’m just saying it doesn’t have to be MBT and/or Franklin. What’s the downside of leaving this chapter behind? Certainly not a worse record.

[Will]

I seem to remember, at the time, that most people's focus / expectations in Toronto was that the Argos would be pursuing Henry Burris. He had been pushed out by Drew Tate at that point. Nobody thought that Ricky Ray was available, which made it even more the shocking when we learned about the trade. I still remember calling my father and telling him that the Argos had a QB and he automatically said Burris and was surprised when I told him it was Ricky Ray.

Jarious Jackson was signed after Ray was acquired, and the Argos had also brought in Ricky Tafralis (I think), but he retired prior to training camp. IIRC, Zach Collaros was not signed until after camp had started. I don't recall when Harris was brought aboard, but it was before Collaros.