Bethel-Thompson to start against Ottawa

[R.J]

I wonder if cap considerations were part of this move. Franklin has an incentive-laden contract that presumably pays out for every game he starts. Keeping him on the bench for a few games might allow Popp to bring in an extra body or two.

I doubt it. Ricky's on the 6 game, as is Coombs and Woods; lots of savings there and Franklin's incentives reportedly weren't that high. I think this has everything to do with Franklin's mediocre play and Trestman's bias towards pure pocket passers. If you'll recall when Mathews starter last year Trestman stated and I quote "He plays similarly to Ricky". Mathews sucks, so by playing similarly I'm pretty sure he's talking about being a pocket passer, and clearly Fajardo's game was built on throwing on the run. It's this reason that I feel bad for Prukop; who IMO has a lot of potential, but he'll never get any shot due to his play style (and probably wouldn't get picked up by another team, because he had only 4 throws in a 2017 pre season game). And, the only way I see Franklin getting back in there is if Thompson plays as poorly as Mathews did last season.

[R.J]

Even Naylor and Lalji know there's been a bias:
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/3-downs...injury~1452730

EDIT: Not so sure about the whole going deep thing, but Franklin isn't much for throwing -3 yards when we need 10. I think the fact that McLeod John Baltazar Bethel-Thompson is a pure pocket passer who won't deviate from Trestman's play calls (IE, move from the pocket) has a lot more to do with it. This season is looking and sounding more like 2016 with each passing day. Hooray for the return of the checkdown only offence.

[RB957]

I'm not a big fan of this move. As others have pointed out, issues with the receivers getting open and poor blocking, play calling, and most importantly in my opinion, the poor play of the offensive line has been the biggest contributor to our lack of success. I liked Franklin's mobility and do not see that in MBT.

[RB957]

Quotes from Argos brass regarding not making a trade for Johnny Manziel

Bill Manning: "There is a belief in this team and James Franklin and there is a reason Jim Popp brought him here. There is a lot of belief in him. We didn’t go down that path,”

Jim Popp: “We went out in the off-season we spent a lot of our free agent money on James Franklin who we think will be a real star in the CFL, the most up and coming guy with the experience."

I guess they didn't bother to tell Marc Trestman, whose only comment about Franklin is that he thinks he can be successful "in this league".

I want the team to be successful and win, so I will be cheering for MBT.... but I hope that they haven't given up on Franklin. I believe he is the real deal.

[argolio]

I think Franklin is their long-term guy. If they find lightning in a bottle with BT and the season can be turned around, they'll ride him. If not, go back to Franklin and let him develop the rest of the season.

[R.J]

Quotes from Argos brass regarding not making a trade for Johnny Manziel

Bill Manning: "[FONT="]There is a belief in this team and James Franklin and there is a reason Jim Popp brought him here. There is a lot of belief in him. We didn’t go down that path,” [/FONT]

Jim Popp: [FONT="]“We went out in the off-season we spent a lot of our free agent money on James Franklin who we think will be a real star in the CFL, the most up and coming guy with the experience."

I guess they didn't bother to tell Marc Trestman, whose only comment about Franklin is that he thinks he can be successful "in this league".

I want the team to be successful and win, so I will be cheering for MBT.... but I hope that they haven't given up on Franklin. I believe he is the real deal.[/FONT]

I think Popp did his best to ensure that what happened in Montreal didn't happen here, but I've been saying since day one that I don't think Trestman cares much for Franklin. I figured Franklin would have a short leash - actually I'm surprised he even got 4 games.

[macspectrum]

I doubt it. Ricky's on the 6 game, as is Coombs and Woods; lots of savings there and Franklin's incentives reportedly weren't that high. I think this has everything to do with Franklin's mediocre play and Trestman's bias towards pure pocket passers. If you'll recall when Mathews starter last year Trestman stated and I quote "He plays similarly to Ricky". Mathews sucks, so by playing similarly I'm pretty sure he's talking about being a pocket passer, and clearly Fajardo's game was built on throwing on the run. It's this reason that I feel bad for Prukop; who IMO has a lot of potential, but he'll never get any shot due to his play style (and probably wouldn't get picked up by another team, because he had only 4 throws in a 2017 pre season game). And, the only way I see Franklin getting back in there is if Thompson plays as poorly as Mathews did last season.

'clearly Fajardo's game was built on throwing on the run'
i always liked fajardo and he certainly would look good at the helm of the argos
[sigh]

[macspectrum]

Quotes from Argos brass regarding not making a trade for Johnny Manziel

Bill Manning: "There is a belief in this team and James Franklin and there is a reason Jim Popp brought him here. There is a lot of belief in him. We didn’t go down that path,”

Jim Popp: “We went out in the off-season we spent a lot of our free agent money on James Franklin who we think will be a real star in the CFL, the most up and coming guy with the experience."

I guess they didn't bother to tell Marc Trestman, whose only comment about Franklin is that he thinks he can be successful "in this league".

I want the team to be successful and win, so I will be cheering for MBT.... but I hope that they haven't given up on Franklin. I believe he is the real deal.

seems fajardo was a much better solution
big
mobile
decent thrower
-----
i also think ray should have retired and not re-signed

[Rich]

Franklin's incentives reportedly weren't that high.

What reports are you referring to? I heard Franklin's base salary was in the $200K range. There's no way he would have have signed for that if the incentives were also low, because there were a lot of teams willing to bid for his services. If he was going to start for the Argos he surely would expect starter money, I'm guessing he's getting in the range of $20k per start. Three missed starts and voila the Argos can afford another body, and I don't think Popp is nearly finished bringing more bodies in.

[R.J]

What reports are you referring to? I heard Franklin's base salary was in the $200K range. There's no way he would have have signed for that if the incentives were also low, because there were a lot of teams willing to bid for his services. If he was going to start for the Argos he surely would expect starter money, I'm guessing he's getting in the range of $20k per start. Three missed starts and voila the Argos can afford another body, and I don't think Popp is nearly finished bringing more bodies in.

http://3downnation.com/2018/02/10/co...pay-structure/

Take it with a grain of salt, but it's at least a baseline. Either way I get the feeling you'll still think Franklin is sitting for sms reasons.

[Ron]

Bethel-Thompson is a pure pocket passer who won't deviate from Trestman's play calls (IE, move from the pocket) has a lot more to do with it.

Franklin didn't deviate either. (Thus he sucked)

[doubleblue]

I know nothing about Bethel-Thompson, so I looked him up online.How is this guy even given any opportunity in professional football?His college stats are supremely unimpressive... https://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...n-player-statsHe only played in 14 games over 4 years with 12 of those at FCS Big Sky Conference school Sacramento State - not exactly a powerhouse school or conference.Completion % of 55-58 over his three years there.Small number of pass attempts per game (18 max.)Average passing yards per game of 138 or less.7 td passes versus 8 interceptions over 3 years.His professional career is equally unimpressive...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLeod_Bethel-Thompson.WTF???

Maybe he's a late bloomer.

[CFLfan]

http://3downnation.com/2018/02/10/co...pay-structure/

Take it with a grain of salt, but it's at least a baseline. Either way I get the feeling you'll still think Franklin is sitting for sms reasons.

Interesting to look back at all the positive things that were said last February and some of the comments about "the best duo in the CFL etc"
$675K invested in two QBs, now down to an unknown QB who is probably making the CFL minimum.

Wilder was saying that he wants the ball a lot more. No doubt that with Bethel-Thompson at QB we will see a lot of running plays. And no doubt that Ottawa will be preparing for that. Ottawa will blitz like crazy on passing downs

[Joe Barnes]

Franklin didn't deviate either. (Thus he sucked)

I would like to see packages designed to suit the strengths of whichever QB is in there. Ricky/MBT? The successful types of plays we've come to expect from this offence. Franklin? Plays with a little more movement from the QB, either moving the pocket a bit or specifically designed running plays (or at least options) to take advantage of his foot speed. That keep keep opposition defences honest, wouldn't it?

[R.J]

Franklin didn't deviate either. (Thus he sucked)

He did actually as he had runs here and there, and his picks came from pushing the ball down field. Expect a lot of throw for under 5 yards with Thompson.

I would like to see packages designed to suit the strengths of whichever QB is in there. Ricky/MBT? The successful types of plays we've come to expect from this offence. Franklin? Plays with a little more movement from the QB, either moving the pocket a bit or specifically designed running plays (or at least options) to take advantage of his foot speed. That keep keep opposition defences honest, wouldn't it?

It's pretty clear that Trestman doesn't work this way.

[gilthethrill]

Maybe he's a late bloomer.

He did throw 3 TD passes vs 3 Ints with the now defunct Sacramento Mountain Lions in 2012. Can't find film though.

[jerrym]

I know nothing about Bethel-Thompson, so I looked him up online.

How is this guy even given any opportunity in professional football?

His college stats are supremely unimpressive... https://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...n-player-stats
He only played in 14 games over 4 years with 12 of those at FCS Big Sky Conference school Sacramento State - not exactly a powerhouse school or conference.
Completion % of 55-58 over his three years there.
Small number of pass attempts per game (18 max.)
Average passing yards per game of 138 or less.
7 td passes versus 8 interceptions over 3 years.

His professional career is equally unimpressive...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLeod_Bethel-Thompson.

WTF???

After looking at B-T's history, I do not have a good feeling about this. John Wooden, who won ten NCAA national basketball championships in twelve years at UCLA and who is considered one of the best coaches in any sport, built offences suited to the talents of his players. It seems increasingly apparent that Trestman is doing the opposite as the Argo offence hardly suits Franklin's strengths and B-T at age 30 has failed to stand out in college, the Arena Football League, the Untied Football League, or NFL, but fits the Trestman mould.

[lazycro]

MBT is being given a chance in my opinion because he tries to fire up the huddle and has "put his time in"

I assume he will have a shorter leash than JF

[Joe Barnes]

I think you are correct about Trestman. We saw that last year when he chose Matthews over Fajardo for the game in Montreal. Oh, well...all the best to MBT tonight...we need a win!

[Golden Fleece]

Interesting reading this thread after the big comeback win tonight. Of course everything could change with a loss next week, but still, a fun read.