Labour day rematch Game Thread

[Bill G]

Yes always good to see fellow forum members at the games. One of the reasons I purchased ST and will do so again next year. Funny how you mention how the Argos were out coached. As I watched our season slip away today , I found myself wondering how June Jones and Jerry Glanville, with little CFL experience, can seem so far ahead of our staff. How Masoli can scramble around and then make ill advised throws for completions astounded me again today.

Masoli's non-textbook passes from waaaaay behind the line of scrimmage when he avoided pressure worked today .... making life interesting for his coaches, I'm sure.

[smokeslet'sgo]

Can anyone explain yesterdays announcement that only 300 tickets were still available for today’s game then only 15,000 people show up?

The Argos count tickets scanned as attendance, not tickets sold. The Lakeshore West GO train line was a mess today, it took me over an hour and change to get from Clarkson to Union because the train detoured the Milton line, and from Union another delay into Exhibition. A lot of Ticat fans skipped the trip because of the train issues. So I think there were 18k plus sold, but only 15k actually showed up. It took me another 2 hours to get home.

[Ron]

The 15,702 in attendance was inflated by Hamilton fans. With a boring ineffective offence and a porous defence how low will it go before the end of the season?

Who cares?

[Ron]

I have things to write but don't really feel like putting "pen to paper" right now.

This is the team we expected to see last year.

and unlike all other teams last year this team gave it's fans a championship. So they earned a mulligan IMO.

[Shatto]

A number of observations about today's game:
.Masoli with his mobility bought time for his receivers to get open. His play, particularly his mobility, was one of the chief reasons we lost. Against a mobile QB with a good arm, a team must have an exceptional pass rush --we don't.

.Trestman's misuse and under-use of Carter was a dreadful decision. When Carter replaced Jackson as a kick/punt returner it robbed the team of our most dangerous and effective returner. Not playing Carter as a receiver robbed the team of a dangerous game breaker. I don't know if the team would have won with Carter playing on a regular basis but I do know by not playing Carter, it made winning more difficult.

.The defensive scheme leave a lot to be desired. Who is to blame Trestman or the DC--perhaps both

.Forget the stats on MBT as many of the stats were achieved late in the game, when the game was out of reach. IMO he is not the QB of the future. He is a 30 year old journeyman QB, who is perhaps a competent backup. Whatever one thinks of Franklin, he has greater potential of being the prospect of QB of the future. He should be playing to prove if he can do the job or not. If he can't, then an off-season search for a new QB should begin right away.

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

On a positive note Darby continues to play well. Cox showed potential as pass rusher. He demonstrated a really quick first couple steps. It is interesting that Cox who hasn't been in camp as long as Carter got good amount of playing time---unlike Carter.

.Noel (forgetting the early drop) had a very good game. Much better than Smith, who continues to see the field in spite of doing nothing for several games.

.With Knox at LB and moving Tuggle back to DE and if Cox continues to impress, maybe we could get a decent pass rush.

.Even if we don't make the playoffs, let's hope the team starts to win some games soon. Losing doesn't help attendance.

[jerrym]

A number of observations about today's game:
.Masoli with his mobility bought time for his receivers to get open. His play, particularly his mobility, was one of the chief reasons we lost. Against a mobile QB with a good arm, a team must have an exceptional pass rush --we don't.

.Trestman's misuse and under-use of Carter was a dreadful decision. When Carter replaced Jackson as a kick/punt returner it robbed the team of our most dangerous and effective returner. Not playing Carter as a receiver robbed the team of a dangerous game breaker. I don't know if the team would have won with Carter playing on a regular basis but I do know by not playing Carter, it made winning more difficult.

.The defensive scheme leave a lot to be desired. Who is to blame Trestman or the DC--perhaps both

.Forget the stats on MBT as many of the stats were achieved late in the game, when the game was out of reach. IMO he is not the QB of the future. He is a 30 year old journeyman QB, who is perhaps a competent backup. Whatever one thinks of Franklin, he has greater potential of being the prospect of QB of the future. He should be playing to prove if he can do the job or not. If he can't, then an off-season search for a new QB should begin right away.

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

On a positive note Darby continues to play well. Cox showed potential as pass rusher. He demonstrated a really quick first couple steps. It is interesting that Cox who hasn't been in camp as long as Carter got good amount of playing time---unlike Carter.

.Noel (forgetting the early drop) had a very good game. Much better than Smith, who continues to see the field in spite of doing nothing for several games.

.With Knox at LB and moving Tuggle back to DE and if Cox continues to impress, maybe we could get a decent pass rush.

.Even if we don't make the playoffs, let's hope the team starts to win some games soon. Losing doesn't help attendance.

I agree on all points but I don't think much is going to change because Trestman is extremely set in his ways.

[paulwoods13]

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

It may be time for fans to start thinking of next year, but there is no chance the organization will do so until the playoffs are unattainable. As bad as we look right now, we need only finish with as many wins as Wpg and BC to make the playoffs. With two games remaining against Mtl and one each against Ott, Mtl, Ham and Sask, winning four more (maybe even five) is not out of the question, however improbable it may seem. No organization will ever throw in the towel when there is still a mathematical possibility.

[RB957]

A number of observations about today's game:
.Masoli with his mobility bought time for his receivers to get open. His play, particularly his mobility, was one of the chief reasons we lost. Against a mobile QB with a good arm, a team must have an exceptional pass rush --we don't.

.Trestman's misuse and under-use of Carter was a dreadful decision. When Carter replaced Jackson as a kick/punt returner it robbed the team of our most dangerous and effective returner. Not playing Carter as a receiver robbed the team of a dangerous game breaker. I don't know if the team would have won with Carter playing on a regular basis but I do know by not playing Carter, it made winning more difficult.

.The defensive scheme leave a lot to be desired. Who is to blame Trestman or the DC--perhaps both

.Forget the stats on MBT as many of the stats were achieved late in the game, when the game was out of reach. IMO he is not the QB of the future. He is a 30 year old journeyman QB, who is perhaps a competent backup. Whatever one thinks of Franklin, he has greater potential of being the prospect of QB of the future. He should be playing to prove if he can do the job or not. If he can't, then an off-season search for a new QB should begin right away.

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

On a positive note Darby continues to play well. Cox showed potential as pass rusher. He demonstrated a really quick first couple steps. It is interesting that Cox who hasn't been in camp as long as Carter got good amount of playing time---unlike Carter.

.Noel (forgetting the early drop) had a very good game. Much better than Smith, who continues to see the field in spite of doing nothing for several games.

.With Knox at LB and moving Tuggle back to DE and if Cox continues to impress, maybe we could get a decent pass rush.

.Even if we don't make the playoffs, let's hope the team starts to win some games soon. Losing doesn't help attendance.

I agree with everything you have written.

MBT is not our future. Franklin was brought in for that reason, so as you say, let him play... and if he can't produce, then we need to find that guy who will.

Post-game comments by Trestman sounded almost ridiculous. He appears obsessed with creating this positive atmosphere in the locker room, seemingly above everything else. What about on the field?

[R.J]

If Franklin isn't the guy (I think he has to talent to be); we do have Dakota Prukop, but he won't get a shot with Trestman in charge.

[Shatto]

It was not my intention to imply the team should "throw in the towel" but rather start thinking and planning for the future. If they believe they have a potential starter on the PR, then start using that player now--some couldn't play worse than some of the players on the field yesterday. Unless Trestman truly thinks MBT is the QB of the future (hard to believe after the past few games), then he should be playing Franklin to find out if Franklin has that potential.

[AngeloV]

I don't know why you mention Woodson specifically. He played 90-95% of the defensive snaps today and seems to have played most of them last week as well. The only time he wasn't on D today was a brief spell in the second quarter when they went with both Jordan and Dowling at LB; for most series, those two guys shared the same position, with Dowling in on passing downs and Jordan on running downs. Woodson played field corner and Roberson boundary; when Woodson was out briefly, they shuffled the secondary around and I don't remember who was at FC. Woodson has acquitted himself well on defence these past two weeks, and he's only in his second season (and missed a lot of his first with an injury). There is no reason to fish or cut bait with him for at least two more years, IMO..

I didn't get that comment either. Woodson has been the starting boundary corner as you say the last 2 games and has looked good. I watched him closely a couple of times and he blanketed Tolliver.

[R.J]

It was not my intention to imply the team should "throw in the towel" but rather start thinking and planning for the future. If they believe they have a potential starter on the PR, then start using that player now--some couldn't play worse than some of the players on the field yesterday. Unless Trestman truly thinks MBT is the QB of the future (hard to believe after the past few games), then he should be playing Franklin to find out if Franklin has that potential.

I don't see Trestman sitting his boy anytime soon.

[AngeloV]

I'm devastated every time the Argos lose and especially to "them". But as I mentioned to gilthethrill yesterday, I will just now have to enjoy each game on a game by game basis. I enjoy each and every Argos game and that will never change. I take losses hard and feel on top of the world when they win, but I will never stop going to their games.

Also great to see Argo57 and Will yesterday again. Along with gilthethrill, great guys.

[Al&Kat]

[ I take losses hard and feel on top of the world when they win, but I will never stop going to their games.
.[/QUOTE]

Angelo your sentence above expresses my feelings precisely. I too will never stop going to the games because
Win or Lose, I love Cdn. football, and it's always fun, even into my STH year #25.
for example, today at the Shipyard, got to chat with Dave Cranmer from the great 1971 Argos team, AND
with Bob Nicholson, a key piece of the 96-97 Doug Flutie teams. Bob looks great, he now is working in
the field of education.
Yes the Argos 2018 team won't make the playoffs, either the Peg or the Lions will cross-over, and I think it
will take actually sinking that low before our Mgmt. will open their minds up to the kinds of changes that
are needed.
As I write this, I'm watching the Bills get embarrassed, so remember Argo-fans, it could be worse.

[Argo57]

It was not my intention to imply the team should "throw in the towel" but rather start thinking and planning for the future. If they believe they have a potential starter on the PR, then start using that player now--some couldn't play worse than some of the players on the field yesterday. Unless Trestman truly thinks MBT is the QB of the future (hard to believe after the past few games), then he should be playing Franklin to find out if Franklin has that potential.

Although I think they are already out of the playoff picture leave the status quo for the Rider game however if they lose that one then you have 6 games remaining to see what talent you have in the organization.

[jerrym]

Hurts me to say but maybe they should fold the team for 3-5 years.

You want to fold the team one half season after winning the Grey Cup! I suffered through the horror years of the 60s and 70s with a team often in last place and no Grey Cup until 1983. NUTS to your idea! What else would I have to bitch about if not for the Argos!

[jerrym]

I'd like to see the team fish or cut bait with guys like Woodson. If he is not a future starter, then this team needs to find some Canadian Backfield guys who have that potential. I'd say the future ratio balance would be greatly improved by this possibility. LT is another potential ratio changer, but Ryan Hunter won't be around for a while now. I'd like to see Woodson get some starts. Especially if they lose again to the Ticats.

IMO the Argos should keep Woodson, he's been playing a lot recently and doing fairly well. As a young National, he has the potential to be around a long time.

[doubleblue]

Shatto covered things pretty good IMO about this last game. It has been a disappointing year for sure starting with Ricky going down early. But I don't know if it would have made a lot of difference. Maybe another win or two, but this defense has been a big disappointment. Injuries, age and rookies plus players just not good enough has combined for a mediocre defense. Good QB's are very hard to find and then develop, but good defensive players can be found with good scouting. Calgary replaces their players and never miss a beat. This defense needs upgrades at all the DLine positions except Laing and maybe Wynn in a rotation spot IMO. I'm sorry to say fan favourites like Woods and Ball look to have lost a step at LB, and they will both be 32 next season. More pressure from the front seven would make the DB's look a lot better. Young guys like Roberson and Washington have come along quite well with Darby back there. They have to build around Gabriel and Woodson back there for the ratio and because they're pretty good players. But you're always looking for a shutdown corner. Not a lot is going to change on offense. Same QB's and a few new guys here and there. So improved play from MBT and Franklin on offense and a much better defense has to be the hope for next season. IMO

[cfl-cis fan]

Shatto covered things pretty good IMO about this last game. It has been a disappointing year for sure starting with Ricky going down early. But I don't know if it would have made a lot of difference. Maybe another win or two, but this defense has been a big disappointment. Injuries, age and rookies plus players just not good enough has combined for a mediocre defense. Good QB's are very hard to find and then develop, but good defensive players can be found with good scouting. Calgary replaces their players and never miss a beat. This defense needs upgrades at all the DLine positions except Laing and maybe Wynn in a rotation spot IMO. I'm sorry to say fan favourites like Woods and Ball look to have lost a step at LB, and they will both be 32 next season. More pressure from the front seven would make the DB's look a lot better. Young guys like Roberson and Washington have come along quite well with Darby back there. They have to build around Gabriel and Woodson back there for the ratio and because they're pretty good players. But you're always looking for a shutdown corner. Not a lot is going to change on offense. Same QB's and a few new guys here and there. So improved play from MBT and Franklin on offense and a much better defense has to be the hope for next season. IMO

2 more wins ............ that would be 2nd place maybe! I would take that

[RB957]

2 more wins ............ that would be 2nd place maybe! I would take that

As crazy as it sounds, if it wasn't good enough for 2nd, it might be enough to prevent the cross-over. If teams keep beating up each other each week, and it's not the same teams always giving the beating or taking the beating, then a losing record doesn't preclude a playoff spot..... But I believe it's wishful thinking that the Argos make the playoffs this year.