This is the team we were supposed to see last year.

[Argo57]

Can I ask why? What is so special about Condell, because that comment has been made by others, and I am in the dark a bit here.

As for Calvillo, the jury is still out IMO. He was rushed way too soon to try and do too much with the Als, and stellar players don't necessarily make good coaches. I have heard no feedback regarding his tenure or impact since he joined the Argos. If anyone has heard anything, I would love for them to share it.

Well respected coach, hopefully Trestman learns from this season and allows Condell to implement more of his offence next season.
Zach Collaros was playing at his peak under Condell in Hamilton, in regards to Calvillo his track record as both a positional coach and OC has been mediocre at best.

[doubleblue]

Article in today's Sun by Frank Z. Not very complementary of Trestman's Coaching and Popp's recruiting. Wondering if Trestman might just resign instead of coming back for the third year of his contract.
Frank generally has been fairly easy on the HC's going back to Milanovich and now Trestman. Maybe he is hearing grumbling from some of the MLSE head honchos and repeating what he has heard.

Sometimes it's not just losing but how you're losing that really turns off the ones paying the bills.

[AngeloV]

Article in today's Sun by Frank Z. Not very complementary of Trestman's Coaching and Popp's recruiting. Wondering if Trestman might just resign instead of coming back for the third year of his contract.
Frank generally has been fairly easy on the HC's going back to Milanovich and now Trestman. Maybe he is hearing grumbling from some of the MLSE head honchos and repeating what he has heard.

Sometimes it's not just losing but how you're losing that really turns off the ones paying the bills.

I have been wondering about that myself, but Zicarelli sure isn't much of a source. I highly doubt he has spoken to anyone with any inside information to give him that opinion. Maybe he reads this forum as a source to his writings.

[argolio]

Yeah, I find it hard to believe Frank knows any MLSE higher-up.

[jerrym]

I would much rather see Condell return than Calvillo.

Definitely, although the offensive problems IMO are not primarily Calvillo's.

[Argo]

According to Justin Dunk on 3DownNation, Trestman signed a three-year contract last year. I can't see him retiring with a year and $600k left on his contract, unless he decides that the need to reduce the number of coaches and/or cut the pay for his assistants (and possibly himself) makes it too intolerable to continue. All things considered, I don't see Trestman or Popp going anywhere after this season. I hope Trestman is able to be hard-headed enough to make significant changes in the coaching ranks. It seems clear the coaching staff needs an overhaul, especially on the defensive side. I don't think we'll see both Condell and Calvillo back -- one or the other but not both.

If this means that Trestman is paid $ 600,000 per year, then he is ridiculously overpaid, no matter what the record of the team, let alone at 3-10 and sinking.

I'm afraid to ask what Popp is being paid.

[Ron]

Considering how much true success Trestman has had. I give him a mulligan in facing true failure for the first time.

Also, you won't see me crap on our championship last year just because it's pissy we're losing this season. The Argos were the only successful team last year and did so at the only times it mattered.

[paulwoods13]

The Argos were the only successful team last year and did so at the only times it mattered.

This is a great point. Calling it a "lucky" championship misses the point -- only one team wins the championship, and whether it's won by dominance or winning close games in the post-season is irrelevant.

[RB957]

This is a great point. Calling it a "lucky" championship misses the point -- only one team wins the championship, and whether it's won by dominance or winning close games in the post-season is irrelevant.

I don't disagree with you Paul, however the truth is that the Argos have not had a "winning" season for many years... even when they have won the championship. As someone else posted in another thread, the Argos last dominated the league when Flutie was their QB, if I am not mistaken.

It does have to be said that in a small league, which is ultra competitive, and where you play certain opponents multiple times, there is a greater chance that you will have teams hovering around the .500 mark. But for whatever reason, the Argos are unable to build a dynasty. They have gotten hot at the right times in both years they won their most recent championships, and kept big games close, but overall a very erratic and unpredictable team.

[AngeloV]

I don't disagree with you Paul, however the truth is that the Argos have not had a "winning" season for many years... even when they have won the championship. As someone else posted in another thread, the Argos last dominated the league when Flutie was their QB, if I am not mistaken.

It does have to be said that in a small league, which is ultra competitive, and where you play certain opponents multiple times, there is a greater chance that you will have teams hovering around the .500 mark. But for whatever reason, the Argos are unable to build a dynasty. They have gotten hot at the right times in both years they won their most recent championships, and kept big games close, but overall a very erratic and unpredictable team.

They did go 11-7 following the 2012 Grey Cup, but I guess the 2nd half of the Eastern final is the lasting memory of that season.

[mchesher03]

They did go 11-7 following the 2012 Grey Cup, but I guess the 2nd half of the Eastern final is the lasting memory of that season.

Oh man what a trip back down to earth after a great first half where we looked to be on our way to the Grey Cup again.

Between that and Kackert getting injured in the leadup to that game, rough end to an otherwise decent season.

[Will]

They did go 11-7 following the 2012 Grey Cup, but I guess the 2nd half of the Eastern final is the lasting memory of that season.

The Argos were 9-4 (I think) after winning 4-straight on a road trip and then lost a home-and-home to Hamilton. The Scott Milanovich Argos were never quite the same after that IMO although a similar situation occurred in 2015 where the Argos were 9-5 (I think) and went 1-3 down the stretch to finish 10-8 and ended up having to travel to Hamilton for the semi which they lost.

11-7 is the best the Argos have finished since 1997.

[paulwoods13]

I don't disagree with you Paul, however the truth is that the Argos have not had a "winning" season for many years... even when they have won the championship. As someone else posted in another thread, the Argos last dominated the league when Flutie was their QB, if I am not mistaken.

It does have to be said that in a small league, which is ultra competitive, and where you play certain opponents multiple times, there is a greater chance that you will have teams hovering around the .500 mark. But for whatever reason, the Argos are unable to build a dynasty. They have gotten hot at the right times in both years they won their most recent championships, and kept big games close, but overall a very erratic and unpredictable team.

No question they have been erratic and inconsistent. But would you take winning championships when you get there (even at 9-9) over piling up 13-plus wins every year and yet rarely winning the big game? In other words, would you rather have what Stamps fans have had, or what we have had? I'd take what we have had. And I think it's fair to say that other than maybe Montreal (which won only three of eight Grey Cups it played in in the Ham-Calvillo-Popp era), there hasn't been a dynasty built in the CFL since Flutie left. (If we can even call two years of dominance a dynasty.)

[Will]

The Argos finished above .500 from 2004-2007 and since then have finished above .500 twice (2013, 2015). They have won 2 Grey Cups at 9-9 (2012, 2017) and made an additional playoff appearance at 9-9 in 2010. They have missed the playoffs in 2008, 2009, 2011, 2014, 2016 and likely 2018. The championships are great, but some consistency would be nice too. A great on-field product does not equal off-field success I get it, but I'd rather have 1 thing to address instead of 2.

[RB957]

No question they have been erratic and inconsistent. But would you take winning championships when you get there (even at 9-9) over piling up 13-plus wins every year and yet rarely winning the big game? In other words, would you rather have what Stamps fans have had, or what we have had? I'd take what we have had. And I think it's fair to say that other than maybe Montreal (which won only three of eight Grey Cups it played in in the Ham-Calvillo-Popp era), there hasn't been a dynasty built in the CFL since Flutie left. (If we can even call two years of dominance a dynasty.)

Yes of course, no question. I was at both Grey Cup games where we won, and it was magic, and I would take that over being 16 -2 and losing. And having won a few recent championships is meaningful.... for eg., my son and a couple of buddies and I went to Winnipeg this year to watch the Argos, and took a bit of heckling from their fans. However, they shut up pretty quickly when I asked the last time they had won a championship. So I get what you are saying. It's just that in a market as fickle as this one, some consistency would go a long way I think to helping the team gain relevence again.

[R.J]

I think recency bias is a bit at play here, yeah the Argonauts won the 2017 Grey Cup, but in the last decade (08-17) the Stamps and Argos have both won 2 GC's. In the last 20 years (98-17) both have won 3 GC's. And, in the last 30 years (88-17) Calgary has won 5 GC, and the Argos have won 6. So, I suppose you could say the Argos have been more successful in the last 30, but how many times have the Stamps finished out of the playoffs in the last 30, 20, and 10 years ?

[R.J]

Article in today's Sun by Frank Z. Not very complementary of Trestman's Coaching and Popp's recruiting. Wondering if Trestman might just resign instead of coming back for the third year of his contract.
Frank generally has been fairly easy on the HC's going back to Milanovich and now Trestman. Maybe he is hearing grumbling from some of the MLSE head honchos and repeating what he has heard.

Sometimes it's not just losing but how you're losing that really turns off the ones paying the bills.

https://torontosun.com/sports/footba...out-of-control

Yeah, when I read this I honestly just thought Frank came around here, read some posts, and wrote it up.

[paulwoods13]

I think recency bias is a bit at play here, yeah the Argonauts won the 2017 Grey Cup, but in the last decade (08-17) the Stamps and Argos have both won 2 GC's. In the last 20 years (98-17) both have won 3 GC's. And, in the last 30 years (88-17) Calgary has won 5 GC, and the Argos have won 6. So, I suppose you could say the Argos have been more successful in the last 30, but how many times have the Stamps finished out of the playoffs in the last 30, 20, and 10 years ?

Stamps have been more successful, regular season and postseason combined, but have also suffered more crushing defeats than any other team, and arguably four times as many as the Argos. Missing the playoffs sucks for sure, but IMO losing the Grey Cup, or the division final at home, sucks way worse. I know how rotten I felt in 1988, 2005 and 2007 -- Stamps fans have felt that way 12 times (seven home losses in the West Final, five losses in the Grey Cup) since then.

[R.J]

Can I ask why? What is so special about Condell, because that comment has been made by others, and I am in the dark a bit here.

As for Calvillo, the jury is still out IMO. He was rushed way too soon to try and do too much with the Als, and stellar players don't necessarily make good coaches. I have heard no feedback regarding his tenure or impact since he joined the Argos. If anyone has heard anything, I would love for them to share it.

I don't want to get into a long winded answer, but the easiest way to explain it is that Condell has been coaching for quite some time and paid his dues, generally considered to be one of the top "young" coaches and offensive minds in the CFL, and is greatly respected throughout the League. Since leaving the Ticats Condell has had at least 5 interview requests from being a Head Coach to offensive coordinator to special advisor.

Calvillo on the other hand has been handed his jobs, and struggled every time. If Popp didn't call Cavillo; Calvillo wouldn't be in the CFL right now. Best case scenario was coaching in Usports.

[Will]

https://torontosun.com/sports/footba...out-of-control

Yeah, when I read this I honestly just thought Frank came around here, read some posts, and wrote it up.

This.