Popp & Trestman Gone?

[Neely2005]

Arash Madani Tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArashMada...03782098374658

As I told @sportscage tonight, the expectation is that one of Trestman or Popp won't be back with the Argos in 2019.

There has been major friction with MLSE and Argos top football brass. Depending on how the off-season shakes down, both *could* be gone.

Now, back to baseball.

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) October 13, 2018

[Wobbler]

This was already mentioned in the GDT, but it is important enough to deserve its own thread I think.

[R.J]

I'd be shocked if at least one of them weren't let go or resigned. I'd lean more towards it being Trestman leaving, but who knows what Manning and Tanebaum are thinking.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

It would not be surprising to see both leave due to the current circumstances. The league is implementing the management salary cap(specifics have not been released on it). They have both played the company man(Popp responding to the question about Manziel being "No player is bigger than this league" remark during the Randy's Road Trip event- Trestman motivating the players last season thru tennis courts/rodent infested working conditions/school buses) and will be required to make hard decisions this coming off-season. It would be difficult to tell others who you have placed trust in to take pay cuts/terminations due to an outside forces beyond your control.I believe both are honorable men who feel this outside influence is becoming too much to bear.We all sometimes forget there is a human element in play when dealing with something like professional sports.I hope Mr Braley and Mr Rhodes realize the implications for their desired outcome.It's going to be hard going forward to attract quality candidates to represent this league in the future.You can't spin your way to this so called growth that the CFL likes to say it's doing.

---

#ManningOut

[R.J]

3Downnation picked up the tweet and made a story
http://3downnation.com/2018/10/13/tr...season-report/

Trestman being frustrated with Bradbury = frustrated with the Argos brass ?

[Shatto]

Trestman and Popp, last year, took a team widely predicted to a basement dweller, to being the Grey Cup champions. This year has been a huge disappointment and much of the blame can be rightfully attributed to coaching and management. However, IMO, winning the Grey Cup against all odds last year, buys them another year to right the ship.

[Argofan_1000]

Trestman and Popp, last year, took a team widely predicted to a basement dweller, to being the Grey Cup champions. This year has been a huge disappointment and much of the blame can be rightfully attributed to coaching and management. However, IMO, winning the Grey Cup against all odds last year, buys them another year to right the ship.

When you look at the record, trading one of the best pass rushers to BC, trading Heath, not playing Franklin earlier 2 games ago, not using Duron Carter, Showing no interest in Manziel and are now only 3 wins. The Argo brass forgot the sizzle and it didn't make us any better a football team.

Both GM and Coach have done it their way and it has not worked. We need to sell the team. Coach is so stubborn. With so many players out there why can't we have an NFL quality club in the CFL. I think its possible. It is so much easier for the CFL to field very strong teams quickly, far easier then the other leagues in town because there are so many playing football in U sports and NCAA. Look at the NHL, they sell sizzle with the fewest draft eligible players of all the leagues. The team needs some help from the PA and league. The field size is a problem in TO and Montreal plus it is too big. Fix it by shortening the length of the field to 100 yards and trim the width to 60 so it looks proportional.

I like the mentality on decisions where the quality of the football team or the quality of anything is the only thing that should be taken into account when rule changes are proposed and players are traded. It's not happening.

Not paying players above the other startup leagues will hurt us and the league. Move the line in the sand so we can take the number 2 spot and the league won't be challenged. A 7.5 to 8 million cap is all it will take

[CFLfan]

When you look at the record, trading one of the best pass rushers to BC, trading Heath, not playing Franklin earlier 2 games ago, not using Duron Carter, Showing no interest in Manziel and are now only 3 wins. The Argo brass forgot the sizzle and it didn't make us any better a football team.

Both GM and Coach have done it their way and it has not worked. We need to sell the team. Coach is so stubborn. With so many players out there why can't we have an NFL quality club in the CFL. I think its possible. It is so much easier for the CFL to field very strong teams quickly, far easier then the other leagues in town because there are so many playing football in U sports and NCAA. Look at the NHL, they sell sizzle with the fewest draft eligible players of all the leagues. The team needs some help from the PA and league. The field size is a problem in TO and Montreal plus it is too big. Fix it by shortening the length of the field to 100 yards and trim the width to 60 so it looks proportional.

I like the mentality on decisions where the quality of the football team or the quality of anything is the only thing that should be taken into account when rule changes are proposed and players are traded. It's not happening.

Not paying players above the other startup leagues will hurt us and the league. Move the line in the sand so we can take the number 2 spot and the league won't be challenged. A 7.5 to 8 million cap is all it will take

A $7.5 M to $8M cap?? that would bankrupt teams and finish the CFL.
We know by looking at the books of the Riders, Esks and Bombers that they make $1m or $2m in profit and that is with $4.6 M cap. The three teams also have the highest attendance. We don't know how much money the Als and the Lion are losing with averaging 18k attendance but they certainly coudn't afford a raise in the cap. Ticats, Ottawa? we don't know if they are breaking even ?
Would MLSE agree to payout another $3m per year in salaries? I doubt it.

If the CFL could substantially increase attendance and ticket prices and eventually TV revenue then maybe they could raise the cap but it's not going to happen. They have to survive on what they have and hope that fans still come out and support their teams with fewer talented players.

[doubleblue]

Marc Trestman always talks about that slim line between the winning teams and losing teams in the League. Maybe, but last year's team to me was much better than this year's. #1 Ricky Ray, #2 better defense, one starting player the other night (Laing) left from the GC team. #3 The defensive coordinator.

Some of the defensive players were another year older and plagued with injuries but the next guys up weren't as good. I think Trestman kind of tried to warn everybody at the start of the year, saying this was a different team. Maybe we just assumed the new players would be as good and we wouldn't miss the DC. So Popp has his work cut out for him this off season, with the new League and trying to convince talented players to come up here for 60,000 Canadian.

[Will]

As I believe Angelo pointed out in the other thread, the fact that there may be friction in the upper echelons of the organization is no secret. We've been speculating on this since Labour Day at least. Madani does, however, take it a bit further stating that the friction is between Football Operations and MLSE. We had only been speculating that this friction was between Trestman and Popp (which still might be the case). Now we do not know what the nature of the friction between Football Ops and MLSE is, however this is definitely a cause for concern. MLSE meddling has never been a good thing.

If it were between Trestman and Popp staying then I would certainly want Popp to stay. I simply do not trust Manning to make Football Operation decisions, especially one that will be so crucial.

[Neely2005]

When you look at the record, trading one of the best pass rushers to BC, trading Heath, not playing Franklin earlier 2 games ago, not using Duron Carter, Showing no interest in Manziel and are now only 3 wins. The Argo brass forgot the sizzle and it didn't make us any better a football team.

Both GM and Coach have done it their way and it has not worked. We need to sell the team. Coach is so stubborn. With so many players out there why can't we have an NFL quality club in the CFL. I think its possible. It is so much easier for the CFL to field very strong teams quickly, far easier then the other leagues in town because there are so many playing football in U sports and NCAA. Look at the NHL, they sell sizzle with the fewest draft eligible players of all the leagues. The team needs some help from the PA and league. The field size is a problem in TO and Montreal plus it is too big. Fix it by shortening the length of the field to 100 yards and trim the width to 60 so it looks proportional.

I like the mentality on decisions where the quality of the football team or the quality of anything is the only thing that should be taken into account when rule changes are proposed and players are traded. It's not happening.

Not paying players above the other startup leagues will hurt us and the league. Move the line in the sand so we can take the number 2 spot and the league won't be challenged. A 7.5 to 8 million cap is all it will take

A smaller field means less room, less offence, less excitement and less entertainment. If they were to shrink the field we'd cancel our season tickets.

[Neely2005]

As I believe Angelo pointed out in the other thread, the fact that there may be friction in the upper echelons of the organization is no secret. We've been speculating on this since Labour Day at least. Madani does, however, take it a bit further stating that the friction is between Football Operations and MLSE. We had only been speculating that this friction was between Trestman and Popp (which still might be the case). Now we do not know what the nature of the friction between Football Ops and MLSE is, however this is definitely a cause for concern. MLSE meddling has never been a good thing.

If it were between Trestman and Popp staying then I would certainly want Popp to stay. I simply do not trust Manning to make Football Operation decisions, especially one that will be so crucial.

MLSE meddling is unfortunate and will be damaging but unfortunately it's not unexpected.

[Argofan_1000]

A $7.5 M to $8M cap?? that would bankrupt teams and finish the CFL.
We know by looking at the books of the Riders, Esks and Bombers that they make $1m or $2m in profit and that is with $4.6 M cap. The three teams also have the highest attendance. We don't know how much money the Als and the Lion are losing with averaging 18k attendance but they certainly coudn't afford a raise in the cap. Ticats, Ottawa? we don't know if they are breaking even ?
Would MLSE agree to payout another $3m per year in salaries? I doubt it.

If the CFL could substantially increase attendance and ticket prices and eventually TV revenue then maybe they could raise the cap but it's not going to happen. They have to survive on what they have and hope that fans still come out and support their teams with fewer talented players.

Have to do it or we will always here the negative with the new leagues.

Riders 43 million and they just squeak out a profit. I don't believe it. Bombers just got huge relief from the province. They need to shake their transportation issues and they will do quite well, very well.
Edmonton always puts money away before sharing their bottom line.

Commissioner is controlling costs to divert the money to the players.

Us at 14000 average per game, how much $ each per game to cover 2 million if the fans alone had to cover the full amount - 14000 X 9 = 126,000. $2,000,000 / 126,000 = $16 dollars - so they find $8 from us and look to the other revenue streams. Argos only have one major sponsor. 6000 more in attendance is 1.3 million + concessions

Scotia Bank just gave MLSE $80 million a year to name the arena! These Banks give so little back and are very protected by legislation. These companies look for write offs when they are posting 2 billion profit per quarter. Same for MLSE. Same for Bell and Rogers. 2 million they won't care about if it moves the profile forward. Remember their 2 owners sell subscriptions. They need product to market. The more stars the easier it becomes. 9.5 million subscribers to TSN @ $10/month. A lot of money. 2 million I think are there for the CFL. Used the pre and post game GC numbers as reference. The dollar numbers are so big 2 million is insignificant when they look at the CFL's bigger picture and what they could loose out if it were gone. For me if I am Bell I am never going to take a chance.

[Argofan_1000]

A smaller field means less room, less offence, less excitement and less entertainment. If they were to shrink the field we'd cancel our season tickets.

Shorter field doesn't mean less offence. I think it will have the reverse effect. Making the width of the field shorter by a few yards does nothing to the game if the hash marks are moved. May help with offence by having the ball spotted closer to mid field.

[paulwoods13]

A smaller field means less room, less offence, less excitement and less entertainment. If they were to shrink the field we'd cancel our season tickets.

Furthermore, it would essentially ruin every stadium in Canada by placing spectators farther away from the field.

[paulwoods13]

Increasing the salary cap to $8M will not bring any significant players to Canada, and will mean higher -- I would say much higher -- ticket prices in every city. It's easy to say things like "MLSE's rich and can afford it," but the companies that own teams are in the business of making money, not giving it away, and in MLSE's case its owners have a fiduciary obligation to shareholders to maximize return on investment. The cap will go up in the next CBA, by maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars -- definitely not by $2.5M.

[AngeloV]

Increasing the salary cap to $8M will not bring any significant players to Canada, and will mean higher -- I would say much higher -- ticket prices in every city. It's easy to say things like "MLSE's rich and can afford it," but the companies that own teams are in the business of making money, not giving it away, and in MLSE's case its owners have a fiduciary obligation to shareholders to maximize return on investment. The cap will go up in the next CBA, by maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars -- definitely not by $2.5M.

There is always a chance that the management cap may be done in order to increase the players salary cap. I agree, we won't see it go to 8M anytime soon, but perhaps 6 isn't out of the question. I don't think it's a coincidence that the management cap is taking place the same year the CBA with the players association ends. Different allocation of operation costs, but I think the players will their biggest increase to date, and mostly due to the new league. 6M would put the league average over 100k which would be in line with the 80k USD the other league is offering.

[Argo]

There is always a chance that the management cap may be done in order to increase the players salary cap. I agree, we won't see it go to 8M anytime soon, but perhaps 6 isn't out of the question. I don't think it's a coincidence that the management cap is taking place the same year the CBA with the players association ends. Different allocation of operation costs, but I think the players will their biggest increase to date, and mostly due to the new league. 6M would put the league average over 100k which would be in line with the 80k USD the other league is offering.

More money for players (and officiating), less management / coaching personnel (implying less money spent on such derivatives) under a reasonable management cap is a formula for success in the CFL.

Drop a couple of coaching positions, no "Assistant GM", "Head of Football Operations", "Consultant", "Former Star Ornament", etc., and no more winning the lottery contracts like those of Trestman and Popp (due to cap).

[Neely2005]

Furthermore, it would essentially ruin every stadium in Canada by placing spectators farther away from the field.

That too! Plus Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Hamilton and Ottawa all have new stadiums.

[Shatto]

Not surprised there may be friction between MLSE management and Argo football management. When you have a president whose first priority is his soccer team, there is bound to be the possibility of friction between Manning and Trestman/Popp. As long as we have a soccer first individual as the Argo president, there will always be the image of the Argos as being a second thought. The team needs a president whose only concern is the well being of the team and its fans. Pinball fits the bill but his other activities may mean he will never accept the post.

Perhaps others may have some suggestions as to who could fit the role nicely