Toronto Argonauts moving to Mexico ?

[argolio]

Ambrosie may have no choice but to try to build interest (and more importantly, generate revenue) elsewhere.

Bingo! That's Ambrosie's primary mandate.

[shayman]

I agree on all points. Football is in trouble and will need to change to survive, IMO. I could see flag or even touch football eventually replacing what we have now.

or Rugby maybe. Back to football's roots. Thought experiment: If the CFL switched overnight to rugby, would you still be a fan? I think I would; a lot of the attraction for me is seeing my city challenging your city in an exciting Canadian environment in front of tens of thousands of like-minded partisans. I'm not too hung up on the details.

It's been interesting watching the evolution of the Toronto Wolfpack. I was skeptical that it would work, but it seems to be (championship game setback notwithstanding.)

[paulwoods13]

or Rugby maybe. Back to football's roots. Thought experiment: If the CFL switched overnight to rugby, would you still be a fan? I think I would; a lot of the attraction for me is seeing my city challenging your city in an exciting Canadian environment in front of tens of thousands of like-minded partisans. I'm not too hung up on the details.

It's been interesting watching the evolution of the Toronto Wolfpack. I was skeptical that it would work, but it seems to be (championship game setback notwithstanding.)

Interesting question. I enjoy rugby but would really miss forward passing. If it came down to a choice between watching the Cdn Rugby Football League or the National Football League, I would almost certainly choose the latter, notwithstanding the lack of a local team to root for.

[shayman]

Interesting question. I enjoy rugby but would really miss forward passing. If it came down to a choice between watching the Cdn Rugby Football League or the National Football League, I would almost certainly choose the latter, notwithstanding the lack of a local team to root for.

Understood - the NFL isn't immune to the same issues threatening Canadian football. NFL may need to change course in the future too.

Rugby, but with forward passes. How about that :-)

I've often wondered if you could ever measure how many people go to the game - any game - because they really love the details of the sport itself, and how many are just there for the shared experience. There's a lot to be said for being in a stadium full of enthusiasm, regardless of the game. (This is the only thing I can think of that explains soccer :-))

[CFLfan]

Over 200K attended the Mexican F1 GP 2 weeks ago. Don't underestimate the money and attendance there. I think this is a smart move. Hopefully the league can find more revenue down the road in other places in the world. Finally a commissioner with vision.

Just like the Montreal F-1 GP, the Europeans fly in by the thousands to follow their race team, they follow their F-1 teams all over the world. Rich Mexicans will also attend, F-1 is known world wide.
The NFL teams playing in Mexico this month will have thousands of their own fans flying in for it, the NFL is on Mexican TV and is well known there. The games are in Spanish on telemondo.

The CFL is unknown it's not on TV there, it's not going to be a slam dunk money maker just because the NFL is playing a game there.
They are going to have to do a lot of marketing to sell a CFL game.

There are wealthy people in Mexico City but the average wage in Mexico is $680 and the average citizen won't be attending the games.

[argolio]

The CFL would almost certainly get a minimum revenue guarantee before agreeing to this. It would be up to the local organizers to sell tickets.

[shayman]

The NFL had planned a Chiefs/Rams game next Monday night in Mexico City - but it's just been moved to Los Angeles because of poor field conditions at Estadio Azteca.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la...113-story.html

"A concert nine days before the planned kickoff left the playing surface at the Mexico City stadium in serious disrepair. That raised concerns about player safety with the league. Efforts to re-sod the turf were insufficient to convince the NFL to stay."

[Joe Barnes]

The NFL had planned a Chiefs/Rams game next Monday night in Mexico City - but it's just been moved to Los Angeles because of poor field conditions at Estadio Azteca.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la...113-story.html

"A concert nine days before the planned kickoff left the playing surface at the Mexico City stadium in serious disrepair. That raised concerns about player safety with the league. Efforts to re-sod the turf were insufficient to convince the NFL to stay."

"There were plans to lay an inferior artificial turf on parts of the field, including the end zones, but Mexican officials refused, exclaiming 'We don't need no stinking indoor/outdoor!! What do you think this is, BMO Field?!?!'"(sarcasm, of course)

[AngeloV]

"There were plans to lay an inferior artificial turf on parts of the field, including the end zones, but Mexican officials refused, exclaiming 'We don't need no stinking indoor/outdoor!! What do you think this is, BMO Field?!?!'"(sarcasm, of course)

They couldn't get "Giovanni" to sign off on it.

[argos1873]

Rugby, but with forward passes. How about that :-)

I've talked about this very thing, on this board and others many times, and I actually think, IMHO, its the only way in the future (well not the only way, but a way to succeed in the future.) I won't go into too many details, as the plan has never been too well received and I don't feel like going over it again, but I think there are many advantages to this approach. Here are but a few: Further differentiate the game from the American game. The reason this could be advantageous is that it would no longer give people an either or scenario. Too many people erroneously think the CFL is just a clone of the NFL, with a few "gimmicky" rules to make it different and more "exciting". Those who know, realize that's not the case, but there's a huge amount of people who are casual fans who don't know this. If you made the game truly distinct, a sort of rugby/gridiron hybrid, there's no longer that confusion and thinking that the CFL and Canadian football itself, is just an inferior NFL. How could it be, when its its own standalone game. Secondly in conjuction with junior and university football, Canadian players would be trained and groomed for this distinct style of football. In that, they would become THE BEST at Canadian football. No longer would a first round draft pick sign with the NFL, and no longer would we need to rely on "second rate" US college players to fill rosters. Sure the game might have enough similarities with US football, and Rugby that the odd player from one of those codes would be able to crack a Canadian football lineup, but presumably the learning curve would be too steep for that to become a common occurrence. In this way the CFL becomes the premier league for Canadian football, without negative comparisons to any other game (for the most part).

Those are just a few things I could think of right now. I used to have a plan of how this could be done, though knowing full well it never will be done, so I used to have a lot more details of what my plan is. For now, I just think its kind of fun to think about. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone else talk about something like this, without me bringing it up, so I thought I'd chime in.

[Argofan_1000]

Just like the Montreal F-1 GP, the Europeans fly in by the thousands to follow their race team, they follow their F-1 teams all over the world. Rich Mexicans will also attend, F-1 is known world wide.
The NFL teams playing in Mexico this month will have thousands of their own fans flying in for it, the NFL is on Mexican TV and is well known there. The games are in Spanish on telemondo.

The CFL is unknown it's not on TV there, it's not going to be a slam dunk money maker just because the NFL is playing a game there.
They are going to have to do a lot of marketing to sell a CFL game.

There are wealthy people in Mexico City but the average wage in Mexico is $680 and the average citizen won't be attending the games.

CFL will capitalize on the cities names in Mexico. Mexico knows Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. They will use those to sell the game

[Joe Barnes]

I've talked about this very thing, on this board and others many times, and I actually think, IMHO, its the only way in the future (well not the only way, but a way to succeed in the future.) I won't go into too many details, as the plan has never been too well received and I don't feel like going over it again, but I think there are many advantages to this approach. Here are but a few: Further differentiate the game from the American game. The reason this could be advantageous is that it would no longer give people an either or scenario. Too many people erroneously think the CFL is just a clone of the NFL, with a few "gimmicky" rules to make it different and more "exciting". Those who know, realize that's not the case, but there's a huge amount of people who are casual fans who don't know this. If you made the game truly distinct, a sort of rugby/gridiron hybrid, there's no longer that confusion and thinking that the CFL and Canadian football itself, is just an inferior NFL. How could it be, when its its own standalone game. Secondly in conjuction with junior and university football, Canadian players would be trained and groomed for this distinct style of football. In that, they would become THE BEST at Canadian football. No longer would a first round draft pick sign with the NFL, and no longer would we need to rely on "second rate" US college players to fill rosters. Sure the game might have enough similarities with US football, and Rugby that the odd player from one of those codes would be able to crack a Canadian football lineup, but presumably the learning curve would be too steep for that to become a common occurrence. In this way the CFL becomes the premier league for Canadian football, without negative comparisons to any other game (for the most part).

Those are just a few things I could think of right now. I used to have a plan of how this could be done, though knowing full well it never will be done, so I used to have a lot more details of what my plan is. For now, I just think its kind of fun to think about. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone else talk about something like this, without me bringing it up, so I thought I'd chime in.

I think you are on to something, on all counts. Sadly, I believe the football we all love (the already distinctive Canadian game and it's American cousin) is going to go the way of the dodo. Parents today don't want their kids playing it due to the concussion issue. In 20 years, there just won't be enough players. Rugby is growing in popularity, though, and seems to be filling the 'tackle sport' void. It is seen as safer and a good sport for aerobic fitness (like soccer), with the added benefit of being cheaper to play. High schools are dropping football, due to insurance costs and the costs of outfitting teams, while rugby and soccer are growing in popularity. Personally, I find this odd, because CTE is caused by an accumulation of sub-concussive hits as much as outright concussions, and rugby is full of sub-concussive hits - every time a players forward progress is stopped suddenly. But, for now, it is seen as the safer option. And that, perhaps, is where the opportunity lies for Canadian football going forward. The kind of hybrid rugby/football game you are suggesting may seem radical but it sure beats the idea of flag football!

[ArgoGabe22]

I think you are on to something, on all counts. Sadly, I believe the football we all love (the already distinctive Canadian game and it's American cousin) is going to go the way of the dodo. Parents today don't want their kids playing it due to the concussion issue. In 20 years, there just won't be enough players. Rugby is growing in popularity, though, and seems to be filling the 'tackle sport' void. It is seen as safer and a good sport for aerobic fitness (like soccer), with the added benefit of being cheaper to play. High schools are dropping football, due to insurance costs and the costs of outfitting teams, while rugby and soccer are growing in popularity. Personally, I find this odd, because CTE is caused by an accumulation of sub-concussive hits as much as outright concussions, and rugby is full of sub-concussive hits - every time a players forward progress is stopped suddenly. But, for now, it is seen as the safer option. And that, perhaps, is where the opportunity lies for Canadian football going forward. The kind of hybrid rugby/football game you are suggesting may seem radical but it sure beats the idea of flag football!

I don’t know if rugby is really becoming more popular. Highschool teams are folding too and had to introduce 7s because turnout was becoming very low. Soccer on the other hand is easy to understand and all you need is a ball to get started, so it will always be more popular. But this isn’t new. I don’t know if soccer can really become even more popular then it is/ever was.

[Joe Barnes]

I don’t know if rugby is really becoming more popular. Highschool teams are folding too and had to introduce 7s because turnout was becoming very low. Soccer on the other hand is easy to understand and all you need is a ball to get started, so it will always be more popular. But this isn’t new. I don’t know if soccer can really become even more popular then it is/ever was.

Rugby enrollment shrinking too? I didn't realize that, but it's not surprising, considering the concussion concerns. If the brain science continues to reveal the risks in our traditional sports, I guess we will see non-contact hockey, flag football, soccer without heading the ball, and a rise in ultimate frisbee!

[Argofan_1000]

I would not be interested in a Rugby highbred version for the CFL. I want rule changes but it would not be what has been suggested. Looks to me like the CFL and NFL need to fix the head shots on a QB. If that can happen we will of fixed a lot of the problem.

[ArgoRavi]

Rugby enrollment shrinking too? I didn't realize that, but it's not surprising, considering the concussion concerns. If the brain science continues to reveal the risks in our traditional sports, I guess we will see non-contact hockey, flag football, soccer without heading the ball, and a rise in ultimate frisbee!

Rugby is no safer than football for the concussion risks. I don't see that replacing Canadian football in any way.

[paulwoods13]

Rugby also lacks the most interesting and entertaining aspect of modern football -- forward passing. That's why I could see flag or touch football eventually replacing what we have now -- it would still allow for the incredible precision and athleticism required of a high-octane passing attack, with vastly reduced injury risk.

[AngeloV]

Rugby also lacks the most interesting and entertaining aspect of modern football -- forward passing. That's why I could see flag or touch football eventually replacing what we have now -- it would still allow for the incredible precision and athleticism required of a high-octane passing attack, with vastly reduced injury risk.

I honestly don’t see football going away in our lifetimes. Nobody will pay to watch touch or flag football. As someone that played both touch and flag for 25 years after I finished playing contact ball, I can also tel you that adult leagues in non contact football are losing membership even faster than high school football is. Touch Football Ontario tournaments have less than half as many teams than they did just 5 years ago. In 20 years, the Metro Touch Football league has gone from 8 divisions of 12 teams to 2017 where they had 2 divisions of 5 teams. I don’t even know if they ran this fall, as their website is no longer updated.

I’m of the opinion that hockey is just as dangerous as football because of the speed of the game and the fact that hitting into boards and glass is legal. As long as the sports offer an opportunity to make the money that they pay at the highest level that they do, these sports will never die. We live in a society where everything is about money to a lot of people.

[ArgoZ]

Have any of you attended college football in the states? After that experience, I don't see how anyone could fathom some kind of end of American football, contact especially or otherwise.

[argos1873]

I think you are on to something, on all counts. Sadly, I believe the football we all love (the already distinctive Canadian game and it's American cousin) is going to go the way of the dodo. Parents today don't want their kids playing it due to the concussion issue. In 20 years, there just won't be enough players. Rugby is growing in popularity, though, and seems to be filling the 'tackle sport' void. It is seen as safer and a good sport for aerobic fitness (like soccer), with the added benefit of being cheaper to play. High schools are dropping football, due to insurance costs and the costs of outfitting teams, while rugby and soccer are growing in popularity. Personally, I find this odd, because CTE is caused by an accumulation of sub-concussive hits as much as outright concussions, and rugby is full of sub-concussive hits - every time a players forward progress is stopped suddenly. But, for now, it is seen as the safer option. And that, perhaps, is where the opportunity lies for Canadian football going forward. The kind of hybrid rugby/football game you are suggesting may seem radical but it sure beats the idea of flag football!

Anecdotally, when I was in high school, I played both football and rugby. I really don't remember anyone getting seriously hurt playing football. But I know loads of people, including myself, who got seriously hurt playing rugby. I seriously hurt my lower back, which still affects me 30 years later. I know someone who was temporarily paralyzed, a guy who had his bell rung so hard he was out cold for minutes (I'm sure a concussion, but they did really care about that then) a guy who broke his leg, and a guy who seriously separated his shoulder.