Should the Argos Draft Mathieu Betts #1 Overall?

[Argofan_1000]

Good call. It has been 30 years. I cite Tony Mandarich, who came out of Michigan State as the 'greatest O-Line Prospect ever.' He was taken by the Packers 2nd overall and taken in the CFL Draft at pick #54 by the BC Lions

Argos can talk to him about what it will take to sign him since we have the first pick. If he does not want to commit then dont pick him

[argolio]

Doing a bit of research, the 1986 draft should have alerted the league that things were changing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_CFL_Draft
#1 - Kent Warnock spent 1986 trying to make the Steelers as a free agent. Came to the CFL in '87, played eight years.
#2 - Rueben Mayes drafted by the Saints in the 3rd round, spent his pro career in the NFL.
#3 - Markus Koch drafted in the 2nd round by Washington, spent his pro career in the NFL. That one really hurt the Argos.
#4 - Mike Schad drafted in the first round by the Rams, spent eight years in the NFL, played one year in the CFL.

The #7 pick, Brian Belway, played a game in the NFL during the 1987 strike. I remember getting excited when the Argos signed him midseason in 89 or 90. He was cut a week or two later.

[paulwoods13]

Cool research, argolio.

[OV Argo]

Very cool research - particularly with that 86 draft year.

NFL interest in top Canadian players has been around for a long time though; mostly US college ball trained guys though - like Jim Corrigall; but then, gradually, the NFL started to take notice of some top Canadian college ball talent. Brian Fryar, John Priestner, Dan Fereday were all drafted before Schad became a 1st round NFL prospect/talent.

Why did it take the CFL so long to switch their draft date to before the NFL one, so they could scope out interest in Canadian players ?

And a lot of NFL interest now is more casual, cursory looks via a rookie mini-camp. Lots of Canadian guys get to attend some sort of NFL camp amongst huge numbers of players there, but few of them get signed.

The whole blab now from GOBs and their dupes - "we're losing so much talent to the NFL, means we have to reduce Canadian content" is a pile of bull$hite / excuse for more American content that they favor. The Canadian pool /source of talent is bigger, better and deeper than ever = there's plenty of Canadian talent to stock a 10 team CFL and have the majority of rosters Canadian - and the calibre of play would not be affected one iota (and might get better) ; GOBs certainly don't want to hear that opinion though.

[R.J]

Canadian OL Shane Richards sent home from CFL combine
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/23/c...m-cfl-combine/

I didn't realize Hardaway was this kids agent, so in saying that I hope the Argonauts avoid Richards in the Draft (if he's available in later rounds, then maybe). Saxelid would be my first choice now, followed by Betts, Smith, or Wilkinson I suppose.

I wonder if Kongbo ends up getting picked in the first 2 rounds, hell of a talent, but injuries and his potential pursuit of the NFL will see him drop I would think.

[Argo57]

Not sure why players even show up if they aren’t willing to participate in the drills?
Poor optics.

[jerrym]

Canadian OL Shane Richards sent home from CFL combine
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/23/c...m-cfl-combine/


I wonder if Kongbo ends up getting picked in the first 2 rounds, hell of a talent, but injuries and his potential pursuit of the NFL will see him drop I would think.

Considering how things have went with those factors and his stated pursuit of a NFL career and NFL interest in him, I also doubt he will not get picked in the first two rounds, and with his injury history, it could be significantly later.

Good conversation with @King_Kongbo who is making good strides with ACL recovery. Expects to be able to fully participate in #NFL mini-camps or @CFL training camp. Strong interest from #49ers & #Cardinals as late draft pick or possibly UDFA. Kongbo open to options in both leagues

— Farhan Lalji (@FarhanLaljiTSN) March 20, 2019

[Argo57]

I would like to see the Argos use a late round pick on a Canadian QB (O’Connor or Merchant) if one of them are available.

[paulwoods13]

I would like to see the Argos use a late round pick on a Canadian QB (O’Connor or Merchant) if one of them are available.

I would not wait that long. I'd take whichever of the two is better (I'm guessing O'Connor) no later than our first pick in Round 3.

[Argo57]

I would not wait that long. I'd take whichever of the two is better (I'm guessing O'Connor) no later than our first pick in Round 3.

Probably right Paul, point being with the lack of talent at the position I wouldn’t want to miss out on one of these guys.

[Wobbler]

Not sure why players even show up if they aren’t willing to participate in the drills?
Poor optics.

Interviews are huge (and free of wear-and-tear). If the career prospects of the previous interview-and-run guys were harmed, it isn't obvious.

[OV Argo]

I would not wait that long. I'd take whichever of the two is better (I'm guessing O'Connor) no later than our first pick in Round 3.

So, Popp and the Argos would entertain the notion of 3 Canadian QBs to get a real shot to compete in TC ? O'Connor or Merchant added to go with Bridge & Picton ?

Could be i guess, but I'll believe pigs flying first.

A number of CFL teams have huge QB depth / need for TC competition now - Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton, Riders, BC, Calgary ... if any of those teams have even the slightest respect for Canadian QBs getting a look, they will be up for drafting those guys = we shall see. Wonder why none of them bothered to try to sign Laval QB Hugo Richard ? - before the Als did when they had easily the already deepest QB depth chart in the league - Manzier (before he got punted) and 4 other QBs with CFL playing experience (Adams, Pipkin, Matthews & Shiltz).

O'Connor, Richard or Merchant could easily be competing for the #2 job or #3 at least, on some of those CFL teams. They won't be.

[Argo57]

So, Popp and the Argos would entertain the notion of 3 Canadian QBs to get a real shot to compete in TC ? O'Connor or Merchant added to go with Bridge & Picton ?

Could be i guess, but I'll believe pigs flying first.

A number of CFL teams have huge QB depth / need for TC competition now - Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton, Riders, BC, Calgary ... if any of those teams have even the slightest respect for Canadian QBs getting a look, they will be up for drafting those guys = we shall see. Wonder why none of them bothered to try to sign Laval QB Hugo Richard ? - before the Als did when they had easily the already deepest QB depth chart in the league - Manzier (before he got punted) and 4 other QBs with CFL playing experience (Adams, Pipkin, Matthews & Shiltz).

O'Connor, Richard or Merchant could easily be competing for the #2 job or #3 at least, on some of those CFL teams. They won't be.

Will the Argos draft one of the available QB’s maybe maybe not, should they....absolutely!
The Bridge signing did nothing for me TBH, not sure he will ever develop into a reliable CFL QB.
Sadly Picton’s size may keep him from getting a chance to prove himself, time will tell.

[CFLfan]

So, Popp and the Argos would entertain the notion of 3 Canadian QBs to get a real shot to compete in TC ? O'Connor or Merchant added to go with Bridge & Picton ?

Could be i guess, but I'll believe pigs flying first.

A number of CFL teams have huge QB depth / need for TC competition now - Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton, Riders, BC, Calgary ... if any of those teams have even the slightest respect for Canadian QBs getting a look, they will be up for drafting those guys = we shall see. Wonder why none of them bothered to try to sign Laval QB Hugo Richard ? - before the Als did when they had easily the already deepest QB depth chart in the league - Manzier (before he got punted) and 4 other QBs with CFL playing experience (Adams, Pipkin, Matthews & Shiltz).

O'Connor, Richard or Merchant could easily be competing for the #2 job or #3 at least, on some of those CFL teams. They won't be.

The TSN analysts reporting at the combine were saying that O'Connor would be the only QB to get a legit shot. They say he has the resume, in other words he has played in the NCAA, was recruited in high school to do his final 2 years at a US high school.
The other guys may look impressive at combines when they are only measuring speed, agility, strength but when it comes to reading defenses, learning plays, they are lacking. The CIS QBs have only thrown passes into defenses with Canadian only DBs and been chased down by CIS D linemen. The CFL is a huge step up when they have to face experienced CFL defenses, ex-NFL, ex-NCAA players.

As for going after Betts as the first pick - "All Betts are off"

[OV Argo]

Hey, it's that troll from over at the 3 Down site comments gallery. Spam alert.

[AngeloV]

The TSN analysts reporting at the combine were saying that O'Connor would be the only QB to get a legit shot. They say he has the resume, in other words he has played in the NCAA, was recruited in high school to do his final 2 years at a US high school.
The other guys may look impressive at combines when they are only measuring speed, agility, strength but when it comes to reading defenses, learning plays, they are lacking. The CIS QBs have only thrown passes into defenses with Canadian only DBs and been chased down by CIS D linemen. The CFL is a huge step up when they have to face experienced CFL defenses, ex-NFL, ex-NCAA players.

As for going after Betts as the first pick - "All Betts are off"

Dude, you do realize that 95% of NCAA players are deemed not good enough to play in the pros, right? How many former Alabama QB's make it to the pros compared to FCS (1AA) or even div II schools? If your argument was valid, every Alabama QB for the last 20 years would be good to great pro QB's.

If a QB is good enough, and a team has patience to develop, reading defences at the pro level will come to them no matter where they played college ball.

[doubleblue]

Looks like Matt Betts is aiming to be in a NFL camp this summer. Laval held their own pro day and he has probably been told that he will be a FA signing down there at least.
So that ship has sailed and I'm all not that disappointed after watching the Combine on the week end. With all the WR talent this year and just average good Offensive Line prospects I believe Jim Popp will select a receiver now at #1. Hergy Mayala of U Conn and Justin McInnis of Arkansas State are rated the top two and have their pro days this week. But after seeing the talent on display yesterday I doubt those two are much better than some of the players we saw at the CFL Combine.
I really like this big guy Brady Lenius-Dickey out of New Mexico who came in at 6'5 1/4" 243 and ran a 4.7 forty caught everything with soft hands thrown his way in the one on ones. But then there is Chris Osei-Kusi out of Queens 6' 1/2" 192 4.4 forty who also showed good moves and hands. To me Osei-Kusi would be the best fit for the Argos and come in an learn the pro game behind Walker, but it would be nice to get them both but I can't see that happening. Then at #9 one of O Linemen Saxelid, Wilkinson, Williams or Gibbon should still be there.
Then at #18 and #21 could be time to take a flyer on one of NFL signees (Kobongo)? and good special teams type guy (Sopik)?. So what could go wrong?
Well, how could we forget the first two picks a couple of years ago Mason Woods and Evan Foster. But Cross, Woodson, Onyeka and Herdman were good later round picks. Alls well that ends well.
Last year was pretty good if Hunter and Cibasu eventually get here and produce.

[doubleblue]

Doing a bit of research, the 1986 draft should have alerted the league that things were changing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_CFL_Draft
#1 - Kent Warnock spent 1986 trying to make the Steelers as a free agent. Came to the CFL in '87, played eight years.
#2 - Rueben Mayes drafted by the Saints in the 3rd round, spent his pro career in the NFL.
#3 - Markus Koch drafted in the 2nd round by Washington, spent his pro career in the NFL. That one really hurt the Argos.
#4 - Mike Schad drafted in the first round by the Rams, spent eight years in the NFL, played one year in the CFL.

The #7 pick, Brian Belway, played a game in the NFL during the 1987 strike. I remember getting excited when the Argos signed him midseason in 89 or 90. He was cut a week or two later.

Seeing Reuben Mayes mentioned reminds me of how he got to Washington State which led to his career in the NFL. The story goes that Hugh Campbell was in his office in Edmonton and the Head Coach of Washington State Jim Walden was there visiting him. The phone rang from someone telling Hugh about this kid in North Battleford Saskatchewan named Reuben Mayes. From that phone call Reuben Mayes ended up at Washington State and as they say the rest is History.

Reuben had a son Logan who played a couple of years at Washington State as a LB and then transferred to Cal Poly where he ended up as a 6'2 250 starting DE. I believe his Senior year was 2015 so he has probably moved on in life but he would still be only 25 or 26 now. He would qualify to be a National now if he was to give CFL football a try. I'm sure Rick Campbell in Ottawa would have been well aware of that.

[OV Argo]

Looks like Matt Betts is aiming to be in a NFL camp this summer. Laval held their own pro day and he has probably been told that he will be a FA signing down there at least.
So that ship has sailed and I'm all not that disappointed after watching the Combine on the week end. With all the WR talent this year and just average good Offensive Line prospects I believe Jim Popp will select a receiver now at #1. Hergy Mayala of U Conn and Justin McInnis of Arkansas State are rated the top two and have their pro days this week. But after seeing the talent on display yesterday I doubt those two are much better than some of the players we saw at the CFL Combine.
I really like this big guy Brady Lenius-Dickey out of New Mexico who came in at 6'5 1/4" 243 and ran a 4.7 forty caught everything with soft hands thrown his way in the one on ones. But then there is Chris Osei-Kusi out of Queens 6' 1/2" 192 4.4 forty who also showed good moves and hands. To me Osei-Kusi would be the best fit for the Argos and come in an learn the pro game behind Walker, but it would be nice to get them both but I can't see that happening. Then at #9 one of O Linemen Saxelid, Wilkinson, Williams or Gibbon should still be there.
Then at #18 and #21 could be time to take a flyer on one of NFL signees (Kobongo)? and good special teams type guy (Sopik)?. So what could go wrong?
Well, how could we forget the first two picks a couple of years ago Mason Woods and Evan Foster. But Cross, Woodson, Onyeka and Herdman were good later round picks. Alls well that ends well.
Last year was pretty good if Hunter and Cibasu eventually get here and produce.

What is the deal with Cibasu anyways? - why is he not signed yet - and that needs to be known before going into this draft ???

As far as using one of the top picks on another receiver ? - why bother , unless Cibasu is not coming for sure, plus the team has little faith in Noel or Coombs ? Maybe if they think one of those receivers is an instant starter, PLUS they are quite open to starting at least 2 Canadian receivers - then maybe. It is a very good receiver crop this draft IMO - those 2 US college ball guys McInnis & Mayala, but also several star U Sports receivers are up there (and maybe better) - K.J Grant, K. Gittens in particular, but also the likes of Osei-Kusi (blazing 40 time might get him a bit over-rated though - all-time CFL Combine 40 hand held time was set by Steven Turner who i don't think ever played a down in the CFL); Hunter Karl (Dinos) and Malik Richards (Mount A) and Colton Hunchak (York) are all athletic, plus put up good receiving #s in college ball.

Might be better to use the top pick on an O-lineman; I woulda said Betts for sure if there was no NFL flight risk - possible instant starter at DE - a big area of need.

[paulwoods13]

What is the deal with Cibasu anyways? - why is he not signed yet - and that needs to be known before going into this draft ???

As far as using one of the top picks on another receiver ? - why bother , unless Cibasu is not coming for sure, plus the team has little faith in Noel or Coombs ? Maybe if they think one of those receivers is an instant starter, PLUS they are quite open to starting at least 2 Canadian receivers - then maybe. It is a very good receiver crop this draft IMO

I think you answered your own question. If the draft's strongest position is receiver, why not take the best player available even if he's a receiver? Yes, it's a position of decent depth for the Argos, but picks and current players are also assets that can get something else. If Cibasu signs (and I expect he will), and if we end up spending a high pick on a receiver, too many NAT receivers is a nice problem to have. Someone could be traded for a position of greater need that isn't deep in this year's draft.