Argonauts Marketing in Toronto and the GTA

[paulwoods13]

many will turn the blackouts for having lost an entire generation. im afraid i wasnt alive for that so i dont have a reference for it.
is that true though? im sure blackouts do not help one bit, but can anyone conclusively prove that was The major hit?(against the cfl as a whole)

I don't know anyone who says the blackout was the major reason for the CFL's decline in popularity from its peak in the period between 1976 and 1982 or so. It was just one of many, many reasons.

[AngeloV]

I don't know anyone who says the blackout was the major reason for the CFL's decline in popularity from its peak in the period between 1976 and 1982 or so. It was just one of many, many reasons.

I will continue to say the biggest factor was when the NFL started paying larger salaries. When the salaries of the 2 leagues were relatively in the same ball park for the higher end players, nobody looked down on the CFL. Once the NFL salaries skyrocketed, people (especially casual fans) started to see the CFL as 2nd rate. It's all about perception IMO.

As a Buffalo Bills fan of the NFL, I can say that the majority of their home games pre Jim Kelly era were blacked out in their market, which includes the GTA.

[paulwoods13]

It's worth noting that, according to this comprehensive and credible account, CFL blackouts began in the early 1950s. Blackouts were first lifted on an experimental basis in 1987, and by 1991 the Argos were no longer blacking out their home games. Blackouts didn't seem to cause the loss of a "generation of fans" in the 1950s and 1960s, yet that is what is often said about the 1970s and 1980s. Clearly there were other factors that caused the drop-off in attendance that began around 1980 in Montreal, 1983-84 in Toronto and a bit later in Edmonton and Vancouver.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

many will turn the blackouts for having lost an entire generation. im afraid i wasnt alive for that so i dont have a reference for it.
is that true though? im sure blackouts do not help one bit, but can anyone conclusively prove that was The major hit?(against the cfl as a whole)

BayArgonaut,

I will leave this link to give you a feel for what was going on during 1987.
This was the year Toronto pretty much broke up with the CFL.

https://www.si.com/vault/1987/11/09/116556/staying-away-in-flocks-as-far-as-most-canadians-are-concerned-their-pro-football-league-is-for-the-birds-a-victim-of-terrible-management

[CFLfan]

As I said years if not decades of brand neglect won’t be turned around overnight as we are seeing right now.
The move to BMO occurred in 2016, Argos for various reasons have been shrinking in the Toronto sports scene since the mid 1980’s.

Agree but why the big drop SINCE moving to BMO? Moving back to the CNE in a smaller stadium was supposed to be the Argos saviour. The average crowd was around 24k to 26k at the dome for final 5 or 6 years there (I don't count that final year), what happened to the 10k fans?
My theory is that the Argos have a majority of "older baby boomer" followers and many didn't want to sit outside or just didn't want to change.

[paulwoods13]

Agree but why the big drop SINCE moving to BMO? Moving back to the CNE in a smaller stadium was supposed to be the Argos saviour. The average crowd was around 24k to 26k at the dome for final 5 or 6 years there (I don't count that final year), what happened to the 10k fans?
My theory is that the Argos have a majority of "older baby boomer" followers and many didn't want to sit outside or just didn't want to change.

Two points about SkyDome attendance:

1. The average reported attendance for the final five years at SkyDome (not counting 2015) was 21,477, according to CFLdb.

2014 19,687
2013 21,926
2012 23,689
2011 20,017
2010 22,069
2009 26,374
2008 29,189
2007 26,423
2006 29,677
2005 30,195

2. Those are all reported attendance figures, and don't reflect either paid attendance or reality, IMO.

Having said that, there is no doubt that some fans from the SkyDome era (and not just Baby Boomers) don't like sitting outside. Too bad for them; that ship has sailed and we now play in a facility that IMO is infinitely better for football than SkyDome ever was.

[gilthethrill]

Two points about SkyDome attendance:

1. The average reported attendance for the final five years at SkyDome (not counting 2015) was 21,477, according to CFLdb.

2014 19,687
2013 21,926
2012 23,689
2011 20,017
2010 22,069
2009 26,374
2008 29,189
2007 26,423
2006 29,677
2005 30,195

2. Those are all reported attendance figures, and don't reflect either paid attendance or reality, IMO.

Having said that, there is no doubt that some fans from the SkyDome era (and not just Baby Boomers) don't like sitting outside. Too bad for them; that ship has sailed and we now play in a facility that IMO is infinitely better for football than SkyDome ever was.

I miss nothing about RC ...absolutely nothing. Argos have a much better schedule as well as a much better venue.

[OV Argo]

I miss nothing about RC ...absolutely nothing. Argos have a much better schedule as well as a much better venue.

Sure, yes; everybody thought nice new venue for the Argos going from the SkyDump ... but they had attendance at least in the 20K or above mark there in the mid 2000s era (or is that a total lie and it was more like under 20 mostly?); last year's attendance at the nice, newer outdoor facility = epic fail and an embarrassment. In the corporation we trust though. ;o)

[AngeloV]

Sure, yes; everybody thought nice new venue for the Argos going from the SkyDump ... but they had attendance at least in the 20K or above mark there in the mid 2000s era (or is that a total lie and it was more like under 20 mostly?); last year's attendance at the nice, newer outdoor facility = epic fail and an embarrassment. In the corporation we trust though. ;o)

Honestly, as someone that went to all but 3 games in all the years the Argos were in the dome, I can say that from 2000 on, I never believed the announced attendance. I always thought it was papered.

[Neely2005]

I miss nothing about RC ...absolutely nothing. Argos have a much better schedule as well as a much better venue.

One thing that I miss is having proper seats. The seats in the 200 Level at BMO Field are garbage and the ones in the 100 Level aren't that much better. Having access to the Subway was nice too.

[BayArgonaut]

I miss nothing about RC ...absolutely nothing. Argos have a much better schedule as well as a much better venue.

I miss the bar strip before games, going to them after.
The amenities in the stadium were much better I think, and if you sat in the 100's you had an excellent view. In certain spots, you come to appreciate how the stad ium curves. In others it's a damn obstruction.
Way more accessible via transit
Not to mention the fact it was warm on cold days

[gilthethrill]

I miss the bar strip before games, going to them after.
The amenities in the stadium were much better I think, and if you sat in the 100's you had an excellent view. In certain spots, you come to appreciate how the stad ium curves. In others it's a damn obstruction.
Way more accessible via transit
Not to mention the fact it was warm on cold days

I agree with Neely about the seats in the 200 level. The weather form The Argos since the move to BMO has been nothing to complain about. Coming from the west, access to BMO is much easier. RC was crap for watching football. Does anyone remember how poorly the team was treated by the owners of the RC. I honestly doubt I will set foot inside that aging slab of concrete ever again.

[RB957]

I wasn't sure that this deserves its own thread, and the topic kind of relates to this thread... anyway, this past weekend the opening game of the Canadian Premier (Soccer) League at Tim Hortons Field drew over 17K fans. Toronto Wolfpack home opener drew over 9,000 fans at Lamport. This suggests, to me, that there is interest in the GTA in sporting events other than the "major leagues". So what gives with the continued lack of interest in the CFL?? It is a high level, highly competitive and entertaining game... yet for whatever reason, we can't seem toget any real traction. What gives? I am so glad we have the financial stability and organizational support that comes with being owned by MLSE. I have taken Mike Hogan's comments about everything that is being done to pump up interest to heart, and am very hopeful for bigger crowds, but I remain perplexed as to why it has been so difficult.

[paulwoods13]

Two points: 1. The Hamilton soccer game was free attendance, so I'd wait until people have to pay for tickets before drawing many conclusions there. 2. Wolfpack are the top brand of rugby available in this market, which has (as far as I know) next to no TV coverage. Unlike the CFL which has to contend with hundreds of hours of TV programming from the biggest football league in the world.

Having said all that, I find it heartening that the Wolfpack have started to build a nice little niche and see no reason why the Argos (whose niche is already at least twice as large as the Wolfpack's attendance-wise, and multiple times larger revenue-wise) can't keep growing attendance over time.

[Neely2005]

Two points: 1. The Hamilton soccer game was free attendance, so I'd wait until people have to pay for tickets before drawing many conclusions there. 2. Wolfpack are the top brand of rugby available in this market, which has (as far as I know) next to no TV coverage. Unlike the CFL which has to contend with hundreds of hours of TV programming from the biggest football league in the world.

Having said all that, I find it heartening that the Wolfpack have started to build a nice little niche and see no reason why the Argos (whose niche is already at least twice as large as the Wolfpack's attendance-wise, and multiple times larger revenue-wise) can't keep growing attendance over time.

Are the Wolfpack still giving away thousands of free tickets to every game?

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Are the Wolfpack still giving away thousands of free tickets to every game?

Can Toronto support a second pro rugby team?

https://torontoarrows.com/

[Neely2005]

Can Toronto support a second pro rugby team?

https://torontoarrows.com/

Are those tickets free too?

[doubleblue]

One of the things all of us were excited about when MLSE bought the Argos was their branding power and marketing potential. to date, i cannot recall seeing any bit of visual merchandising or advertising for the Argos. has anyone seen any around? has anyone heard word of any plans to initiate a (series) of promotions?

ill admit im severely disappointed in how little mlse has done for the visibility of the Argos thus far. im still hopeful, but im a 31 year old who has friends as young as 22 who have no idea Toronto has a professional football team. its disastrous.

I was listening to one of the Toronto sports radio show the other day and they were joking about an add the Leafs had out for hiring a new position in their office. All the sports teams owned by MLSE were listed in the add, except one. You guessed it, The Argos. Probably because some office slug has failed to update things since the Argos have come on board. But it does show how MLSE maybe views the Argos when the Marlies are more important.

[OV Argo]

I was listening to one of the Toronto sports radio show the other day and they were joking about an add the Leafs had out for hiring a new position in their office. All the sports teams owned by MLSE were listed in the add, except one. You guessed it, The Argos. Probably because some office slug has failed to update things since the Argos have come on board. But it does show how MLSE maybe views the Argos when the Marlies are more important.

Maybe MLSE is embarrassed about owning the Argos and don't want it well known? - not "world class" or "major league" and all. Sort of like Argo fans in Toronto who are afraid to wear Argo gear about town cause some wannabes would look down on them or mock or laugh ? ;o)

[ArgofanIan]

Thought the ARGOs having a draft party was a nice gesture. Think events like this are positive for our fans , good marketing and hopefully something we can build on. Hope they have a viewing party at real sports or similar event. Some of the events / games this summer look like will be fun.

Still think they should advertise on AM740 to the zoomer crowd but I realize most disagree.