Game Thread - Saturday, June 22, 2019 - Hamilton Tiger-Cats @ Toronto Argonauts

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Final score: Hamilton 64, Argonauts 14, Long Faces 1 with that long face belonging to the poor soul responsible for selling tickets to the next Argo home game. Unless he can convince Kawhi Leonard to play the halftime show with the Rolling Stones I don't like his chances.

[Argo57]

If you listen to the actual interview that headline was misleading.

I did listen to the actual interview on TSN1050.

[Argo57]

Final score: Hamilton 64, Argonauts 14, Long Faces 1 with that long face belonging to the poor soul responsible for selling tickets to the next Argo home game. Unless he can convince Kawhi Leonard to play the halftime show with the Rolling Stones I don't like his chances.

PVR’d and actually watched the game (knowing the results ahead of time) pretty disgusted with their performance.
Crapped the bed big time, a couple of more games like this early in the season won’t bode well for attendance in 2019.
Let’s see what happens.

[Stevoman]

I think they just wanted to help Ricky confirm that he made the right decision...

[Wobbler]

The lone bright spot?... I won that contest on the Argos App! Won a premium suite for me and 11 friends. I got to hang out in a premium suite all game eating tons of free food and free beer. Nice to see how the the rich people live!...

Congrats - that's pretty cool!

[dmont]

I think they just wanted to help Ricky confirm that he made the right decision...

Or to show Ricky exactly how lost they are without him. If that were the case, imagine how flattered he must've been...

[1971GreyCup]

Normally after a game I try to list my personal take on the game with pros and cons. Really difficult to find any pros but here's trying---a) the weather was fantastic b) the north end zone appeared to be giving good traction c)receivers Edwards and Noel made some nice catches and seemed to be getting open even when not the target d) Lemon may not have any QB sacks but he was often causing the QB to rush his pass

Though the cons are too numerous to comment on, I did pay special attention to Antigha, as much had written about how athletic he is. Hopefully this is a one game outlier but in today's game he was badly ineffective.

The only good thing about today's game, is the coach may be forced to make needed changes quicker than he would if the game had been a close loss. And changes are needed!

Reminded me of my late mother’s expression “Apart from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”

[bannedforlife]

Maybe Trestman wasn't the issue, and Franklin just isn't Penske material.

Personally I always thought Franklin and Jennings were overrated. Start MacBeth.

[paulwoods13]

Matthew Scianitti on Twitter: "#Argos head coach Corey Chamblin says team is evaluating injuries to Trumaine Washington, Jermaine Gabriel, Abdul Kanneh, Micah Awe and Ronnie Pfeffer #CFL" / Twitter

https://mobile.twitter.com/TSNSciani...07063656386560

I didn't see Awe get hurt but he missed most of the game. Went out sometime in the second quarter, replaced by Herdman-Reed.

Gabriel's injury looked like a concussion, based on how wobbly he was when he got to his feet. If he's on IR, I guess Herdman-Reed could start at MLB for Awe. Or move Woodson into the starting lineup in place of either Fogg or Covington (both of whom looked lousy at times). Woodson played both halfback and corner at times yesterday.

I did not see Pfeffer get hurt. Brown's punting was poor (and Pfeffer's first two were shanks). Hopefully Medeiros is available.

Kanneh looked decent except for that horrendous fumble after his INT, which was a massive momentum swinger. He played most of the game and got hurt late.

[REAL]

WOWZERS !!!!

Start of the Chamblin era = total embarrassment - first game at home (after a bye to get ready), and on Ricky Ray night; one of the worst Argo performances ever ?

We'll see if any real changes are made to upgrade the $hit performance; sticking with the same roster and game plan/ play-calling is totally unacceptable, and the sign of a dumb-@$$ coaching staff.

Franklin did not look good at all - inaccurate passing and no run threat; run game is a joke - good old recycled Jaques Chappy as OC ?; D looks weak and totally lacking effort - i heard Chambin's D genius was the big factor in the Argos last GC win ? Dress O'Connor next game and if Franklin $hits the bed again - go to the rookie at QB = yes, sorry, time for that kind of desperation after such a putrid performance.

Get a home run-hitter like Rainey in on offence and devise a way to get him the ball some; if Wilder continues to run like a wimp, try another RB (why not give Timmis a chance). Throw some deep balls; Declan Cross even used ? (recent CFL games saw H-backs like Beaulieu (Ottawa) and rookie Kalanic (Ticats today) catch TD passes where they were open with the D not ready for that position = sign of a smart or diverse offence.

D looked terrible; maybe Popp thought bringing in a bunch of "experienced" but average to mediocre CFL players would be good enough, but no sir; Poop Johnson (not CFL calibre); Awe (bit-time over-rated) or Antigwa (Chris Jones "athlete" experiment type) . Kevin Fogg (more of a returner and hit & miss as a DB) are just not CFL starting calibre players IMO but i guess Chamblin thought handing these guys starting jobs could do the trick ? D-backfield was useless.

Good for the Ticats to get a dominant win on the road over a big, hated rival; Masoli looked way better vs. last game; Erlington is a top notch RB talent (wonder how this is possible being he is an inferior Canadian who should have no business playing against "ex-NFL/NCAA" superstar talent?) Ticats receivers looked good but maybe pee-wees would have vs. that Argo D. Van Zeyl not "good enough" to play for the Argos anymore ? Ticats D looks 10x better than that feeble Argo unit.

Time to re-visit that thread about how many wins the Argos will get on the season ?

You description of not using Cross sounds like need a little more of the Trestman offence!

[paulwoods13]

Normally after a game I try to list my personal take on the game with pros and cons. Really difficult to find any pros but here's trying---a) the weather was fantastic b) the north end zone appeared to be giving good traction c)receivers Edwards and Noel made some nice catches and seemed to be getting open even when not the target d) Lemon may not have any QB sacks but he was often causing the QB to rush his pass

Though the cons are too numerous to comment on, I did pay special attention to Antigha, as much had written about how athletic he is. Hopefully this is a one game outlier but in today's game he was badly ineffective.

The only good thing about today's game, is the coach may be forced to make needed changes quicker than he would if the game had been a close loss. And changes are needed!

You're right, Shatto, the pros are hard to find among all the cons. There were a few guys trying hard all game, including the three captains. But . . .

Tackling was terrible. Secondary coverage was atrocious at times. Both lines got manhandled (after the first quarter). The offence looked very much like what we've been watching for the past decade -- almost no downfield passing, no rolling out by the QB, no creative packages involving Rainey. Special teams were abysmal.

The 50-point margin reflects one of those days when everything one team tries works great, everything the other team tries works terribly, and sometimes even things one team doesn't really plan work out great (like that wounded-duck pass Masoli threw to a receiver who just happened to be wide open).

Despite how terrible yesterday's loss was, I am not prepared to write this team off yet. Coaches like Chamblin, Dorazio and McDiarmid have had enough success in this league that I'm prepared to give them more than one week to prove they are up to the challenge. I also believe there's a lot of pride in the room, and guys will be itching to show that this is not who they are this year. Time will tell, of course.

For the record, I also think Hamilton is not nearly as good as they looked yesterday. But again, time will tell.

[paulwoods13]

Even in the HORRIBLE Willie Wood years, I don't think the Argo's were EMBARRASSED like this.

Willie's Argos lost 57-13 in Hamilton. That game was actually quite similar to yesterday's in that it started out OK, then the roof collapsed and everything went wrong for Toronto and right for Hamilton. Later that season, after Willie was fired, Argos lost 61-7 in Edmonton. I would rate that as a more embarrassing performance than yesterday. And the 31-0 home loss to Calgary in 1992 (with the sideline brawl and Rocket Ismail's stomp job) was up there as well.

For the record, Willie was coach for one full season plus 10 games in his second year. His first year was far from horrible, especially considering he had Mark Jackson at QB.

[Will]

The wheels fell off once Franklin threw that INT. The defence had been playing OK till then, but Ticats scored and that was that. Not much you can do when your OL and DL get dominated on the LOS. I believe there is legitimate concern about Franklin, but the OL’s play was bad enough that some could argue that he had no chance, which is accurate for much of the game.

[KCargosfan]

The announcing team mentioned in the second half how out of shape we looked.

[Argofan_1000]

I was hoping Ricky would of gone back in. Can Franklin learn this game? He spent a lot of bench time behind great QB's in this league. The team needed a lift and that's the QB's job is, find something that works or die trying. Yesterday afternoon wasn't good for him.

Where was Cross, we all know he is good but didn't hear his name or see him on the field. 1st week bi probably hurts a team but this was no leadership and no effort yesterday afternoon.

[KCargosfan]

You're right, Shatto, the pros are hard to find among all the cons. There were a few guys trying hard all game, including the three captains. But . . .

Tackling was terrible. Secondary coverage was atrocious at times. Both lines got manhandled (after the first quarter). The offence looked very much like what we've been watching for the past decade -- almost no downfield passing, no rolling out by the QB, no creative packages involving Rainey. Special teams were abysmal.

The 50-point margin reflects one of those days when everything one team tries works great, everything the other team tries works terribly, and sometimes even things one team doesn't really plan work out great (like that wounded-duck pass Masoli threw to a receiver who just happened to be wide open).

Despite how terrible yesterday's loss was, I am not prepared to write this team off yet. Coaches like Chamblin, Dorazio and McDiarmid have had enough success in this league that I'm prepared to give them more than one week to prove they are up to the challenge. I also believe there's a lot of pride in the room, and guys will be itching to show that this is not who they are this year. Time will tell, of course.

For the record, I also think Hamilton is not nearly as good as they looked yesterday. But again, time will tell.

Agreed. I'm interested to see the response vs. a Riders team that is likely the fourth- or fifth-best team in the West without Collaros.

[Argo57]

The wheels fell off once Franklin threw that INT. The defence had been playing OK till then, but Ticats scored and that was that. Not much you can do when your OL and DL get dominated on the LOS. I believe there is legitimate concern about Franklin, but the OL’s play was bad enough that some could argue that he had no chance, which is accurate for much of the game.

Valid points Will, it all starts on the line(s) of scrimmage to which the Argos were dominated badly.
With this in mind it would be very shortsighted and foolhardy to start the QB carousel so early in the season, like it or not Franklin needs time to play through these stretches to see what he is truly made of (Masoli sucked early on in Hamilton but they stuck with him).
As Paul Woods so astutely pointed out the O looked pretty much the same as what we have seen the last several seasons which is curious since they showed glimpses of moving the pocket and stretching the field in the preseason.
D Line sucked which put added pressure on an unproven secondary group, Trumaine Washington was abysmal yesterday.
Ditch Pfeffer period, he just isn’t good enough.
Special team performance was amongst the worst I’ve seen in years.
Overall looked sloppy, slow and not ready for prime time yesterday.

[Bill G]

Final score: Hamilton 64, Argonauts 14, Long Faces 1 with that long face belonging to the poor soul responsible for selling tickets to the next Argo home game. Unless he can convince Kawhi Leonard to play the halftime show with the Rolling Stones I don't like his chances.

This hits close to home. Like last season, I got a pair of seasons tickets with nobody lined up in advance to join me for every game. Every ticket got used last year ... will need to work some marketing magic to get my extra ticket allocated this year.

[R.J]

What a pitiful performance and effort by the Argonauts yesterday.
- I left at about the 3 minute warning of the first half, after dozing off a couple of times (not the first time since 2015 that I've done so), but from what I saw, the Argos were not prepared physically or mentally for the game.

- This is Franklin's shot, as he's been handed the #1 QB spot, and looks as though the game is too fast for him. His demeanor is also starting to rub me the wrong way - I'm all for positivity and being polite, but it's starting to look like Franklin just doesn't care enough to be the guy. Yes, there's more to life than football, but the guys who usually stick around for a while put in the work. Masoli at points spent 14+ hours a day at the Ticats facility, and guys like Reilly, Harris, Mitchell are known for going above in beyond in the film room, talking to coaches, getting some extra reps, but from my understanding Franklin "puts in his hours" then goes home to spend quality time with his family. Doesn't seem to have the drive of others, and when you're the leader of the team it's not a good look. Attitude reflects Leadership.

- Now I'm not saying McLeod John Baltazar Bethel-Thompson is the answer, far from it actually. Bethel-Thompson puts in the work, but IMO just isn't good enough. I'd give Franklin another 2 games, but I'd start prepping Prukop and to a lesser degree Bethel-Thompson. In no way shape or form do I want to see O'Connor out there yet - he's a young kid who should be protected at this point, not thrown to the wolves.

- The offense looked just as bad as last year, but I'm not concerned about the receivers - if the Oline, run game (which I think could be fixed by moving on from Wilder), and the QB show up things will turn around IMO. I'll give a mulligan to Chapdelaine this game, but I expected more variety from him in the first half.

- Defence was fine until the pick, and once the Ti-cats got to 20 points it was game over - the D collapsed. Very little push from the Dline, and our linebackers didn't look good yesterday IMO. WTF is Kanneh still doing on this team ?

- I expected more from our dbs, and I'm not surprised that Gabriel is injured again (time to cut him lose when the team can).

- I was surprised by the lack of push by our Dline. While I think we still need a top end interior guy; on paper I thought we should have been a lot better than last year - it currently looks more of the same.

- Big fan of Pfeffer, and I still think he's a good punter, with some place kicking abilities, but the injuries have piled up, so might be time to move on. No thank you to Mederos, who has a questionable leg, and lost us some games last season (which oddly some forget) - Destroyer or Van Glyswyk if we can.

- It's only one game, so I don't think the season is over, and there's a lot of time to get things right.

[Neely2005]

Personally I always thought Franklin and Jennings were overrated. Start MacBeth.

Please no. Saw more than enough of MBT last season.