Damien Cox article in Star

[Neely2005]

Because we are fans, and we stick with the team through good times and bad. In all my years as a fan, only once -- right before Huard got fired -- did I feel inclined to stop going to games or cheering them on. IMO part of what makes being a fan so appealing is that our unconditional love is occasionally rewarded with tremendously enjoyable experiences. They can't happen all the time, and sometimes they happen far too infrequently, but when they do happen, it makes the bad times worth it.

Should have been clearer, I was referring to the casual fans. You see it right now with the Jays too. Guaranteed that there have been Jays games with less than 10,000 in actual attendance this season.

[Argo57]

I always get up for a live game no matter what the record. I love football and especially the Argos. I will be there no matter what their record is.

Agreed, I am very critical of the Argos when I feel it is warranted but I have been a fan for over 40 years and wouldn’t turn my back on them (admittedly they have tested this theory on a few occasions).
Looking forward to August 1st at BMO Field!

[bannedforlife]

Because we are fans, and we stick with the team through good times and bad. In all my years as a fan, only once -- right before Huard got fired -- did I feel inclined to stop going to games or cheering them on. IMO part of what makes being a fan so appealing is that our unconditional love is occasionally rewarded with tremendously enjoyable experiences. They can't happen all the time, and sometimes they happen far too infrequently, but when they do happen, it makes the bad times worth it.

Amen

[jerrym]

I didn't see a thread on this. Pretty depressing view.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/argos...from-here.html

It's been a hell of a long time since he has sang anything but gloom and doom about the Argos. What else would you expect?

[Neely2005]

It's been a hell of a long time since he has sang anything but gloom and doom about the Argos. What else would you expect?

I'm curious if he has written any similar articles about the Jays and them drawing less than 10,000 in real attendance for some games this season.

[RB957]

Because we are fans, and we stick with the team through good times and bad. In all my years as a fan, only once -- right before Huard got fired -- did I feel inclined to stop going to games or cheering them on. IMO part of what makes being a fan so appealing is that our unconditional love is occasionally rewarded with tremendously enjoyable experiences. They can't happen all the time, and sometimes they happen far too infrequently, but when they do happen, it makes the bad times worth it.

I always get up for a live game no matter what the record. I love football and especially the Argos. I will be there no matter what their record is.

Here here!! Spoken as true fans.... cudos to both of you. Your passion is commendable.

While things are not looking good right now, I believe that they can and will get better. The Argos will never be able to rival the Leafs and now Raptors for attention in this city, but there is no reason why we can't grow the fan base to be able to fill BMO Field.

It would really help for the team to be consistently better. Winning the Grey Cup twice in five years was amazing, but being mediocre in between, is not helpful to growing the fan base.

[Neely2005]

Here here!! Spoken as true fans.... cudos to both of you. Your passion is commendable.

While things are not looking good right now, I believe that they can and will get better. The Argos will never be able to rival the Leafs and now Raptors for attention in this city, but there is no reason why we can't grow the fan base to be able to fill BMO Field.

It would really help for the team to be consistently better. Winning the Grey Cup twice in five years was amazing, but being mediocre in between, is not helpful to growing the fan base.

We were mediocre when we won those two Grey Cups too. 9-9 regular season records IIRC.

[ArgoZ]

I'm curious if he has written any similar articles about the Jays and them drawing less than 10,000 in real attendance for some games this season.

Excellent point. I don’t recall hearing how the Jays were embarrassing for Rogers and they should be folding the franchise. Argos are on their knees and people come out of hiding trying to kick them to the ground. Why do humans like being negative all the time?

[RB957]

We were mediocre when we won those two Grey Cups too. 9-9 regular season records IIRC.

You are right... both championship seasons, we got hot at the right time and caught magic in a bottle.... but that is not the recipe for building sustained interest. However, for us long-time fans, as Paul said we stick with the team and occasionally do get rewarded with those special experiences.

[Neely2005]

Excellent point. I don’t recall hearing how the Jays were embarrassing for Rogers and they should be folding the franchise. Argos are on their knees and people come out of hiding trying to kick them to the ground. Why do humans like being negative all the time?

Beats me. If you don't like the CFL that's cool, but why the need to run it down?

[Neely2005]

You are right... both championship seasons, we got hot at the right time and caught magic in a bottle.... but that is not the recipe for building sustained interest. However, for us long-time fans, as Paul said we stick with the team and occasionally do get rewarded with those special experiences.

Agreed but continual losing regular seasons is not going to build the fanbase. Our regular season record has been embarrassing for over a decade.

[AngeloV]

Agreed but continual losing regular seasons is not going to build the fanbase. Our regular season record has been embarrassing for over a decade.

Just shows how times have changed with the arrival of MLB and NBA. The Argos were a disaster in the majority of the 70’s but drew great crowds nevertheless.

[Neely2005]

Just shows how times have changed with the arrival of MLB and NBA. The Argos were a disaster in the majority of the 70’s but drew great crowds nevertheless.

Definitely, the Argonauts were the only Summer professional sports team in Toronto back then. Argonauts in the Summer and leafs in the Winter.

[bannedforlife]

Beats me. If you don't like the CFL that's cool, but why the need to run it down?

That's the whole crux of my ranting and raving, why are people working to hasten its demise? Some are doing it on purpose and others are generally moaning and groaning. People don't really realize what the CFL is competing against, it's not competing against TFC or (until this breakout year) the Raptors, the CFL is competing against its own great legacy. Aside from the period of time when the league almost went under (and miraculously rebounded) the league has been pretty successful. Even now with haters and moaners going on about attendance and ratings (aside from the biggest cities) the league is still doing fairly well relatively speaking and has never had such stable ownership (Montreal sale pending)

It would be nice if people would actually consider writing positive stories instead of lazy ass corporate BS like Cox and Madani, when even their own colleague McCown called Madani out on it. Even the CFL PR guy, a few years ago, felt compelled to call out Madani on his bias.

[Topshelf]

The CFL is competing against a mediocre product.
Look at even the television presentation of a cfl game vs an nfl game.
Toronto youre competing against the traffic, the fight for the entertainment dollar, demographics, cottage weekends etc.
Fantasy football. HUGE. Two of my fantasy leagues have wives in them. They can talk about aaron rodgers or odell beckham, but couldnt name the argos qb.
Since Pinball (who still is an icon in this city), we have lacked an ambassador for this team, player or coach wise.
I think the argos could be undefeated and youd only have a slight bump in numbers.
You need to provide an experience and something for someone's instagram account nowadays.

[paulwoods13]

That's the whole crux of my ranting and raving, why are people working to hasten its demise? Some are doing it on purpose and others are generally moaning and groaning. People don't really realize what the CFL is competing against, it's not competing against TFC or (until this breakout year) the Raptors, the CFL is competing against its own great legacy. Aside from the period of time when the league almost went under (and miraculously rebounded) the league has been pretty successful. Even now with haters and moaners going on about attendance and ratings (aside from the biggest cities) the league is still doing fairly well relatively speaking and has never had such stable ownership (Montreal sale pending)

It would be nice if people would actually consider writing positive stories instead of lazy ass corporate BS like Cox and Madani, when even their own colleague McCown called Madani out on it. Even the CFL PR guy, a few years ago, felt compelled to call out Madani on his bias.

The period of time when the league almost went under was lengthy, from roughly 1987 (when the Als folded and CTV dropped the league) until roughly 2004 (when Bob Young "saved" the Ticats from bankruptcy and C&S "saved" the Argos from bankruptcy). No fewer than five franchises were in varying degrees of serious trouble at times -- the only exceptions were Edm, Sask and Wpg. That's nearly two decades of teetering on the brink -- which certainly didn't help the perception of the Cdn public, or journalists. The great legacy you speak of predates 1987, which means it's ancient. And "pretty successful" is relative -- team revenues were not far off what was being generated by teams in other leagues back in the 1970s, but NFL revenues (and salaries) made a massive leap up in the 1980s. Hockey revenue grew exponentially after Gretzky went to LA in 1988. The rise of basketball into a massive global business began with Jordan and exploded in the past decade. Baseball has had its ups and downs but has always been a major revenue-generating machine, and was especially so in Canada in the 1990s and the last four to five years. Next to all that, the CFL seems like a small-time operation business-wise, and one that has not really grown much at a time when all other major leagues (including MLS) appear to be getting steadily bigger. And in its three largest markets, interest in buying tickets appears to be waning sharply. Journalists can't ignore that, nor should they be expected to write only positive stories. The CFL PR guy calling out Madani is just a guy who was paid to promote the league promoting the league.

[Neely2005]

The period of time when the league almost went under was lengthy, from roughly 1987 (when the Als folded and CTV dropped the league) until roughly 2004 (when Bob Young "saved" the Ticats from bankruptcy and C&S "saved" the Argos from bankruptcy). No fewer than five franchises were in varying degrees of serious trouble at times -- the only exceptions were Edm, Sask and Wpg. That's nearly two decades of teetering on the brink -- which certainly didn't help the perception of the Cdn public, or journalists. The great legacy you speak of predates 1987, which means it's ancient. And "pretty successful" is relative -- team revenues were not far off what was being generated by teams in other leagues back in the 1970s, but NFL revenues (and salaries) made a massive leap up in the 1980s. Hockey revenue grew exponentially after Gretzky went to LA in 1988. The rise of basketball into a massive global business began with Jordan and exploded in the past decade. Baseball has had its ups and downs but has always been a major revenue-generating machine, and was especially so in Canada in the 1990s and the last four to five years. Next to all that, the CFL seems like a small-time operation business-wise, and one that has not really grown much at a time when all other major leagues (including MLS) appear to be getting steadily bigger. And in its three largest markets, interest in buying tickets appears to be waning sharply. Journalists can't ignore that, nor should they be expected to write only positive stories. The CFL PR guy calling out Madani is just a guy who was paid to promote the league promoting the league.

So where are the stories about the Jays being back to having low attendance?

[bannedforlife]

Next to all that, the CFL seems like a small-time operation business-wise, and one that has not really grown much at a time when all other major leagues (including MLS) appear to be getting steadily bigger. And in its three largest markets, interest in buying tickets appears to be waning sharply. Journalists can't ignore that, nor should they be expected to write only positive stories. The CFL PR guy calling out Madani is just a guy who was paid to promote the league promoting the league.

So you're comparing a national league in Canada to American leagues with 10 times the population and related revenues, really? That's hardly comparable. I would think the fact that Senra had to call out Madani (twice IIRC) to me would be unprecedented for a league PR person to have to do that. And as for tacitly defending Madani and his ilk of corporate hitmen, I believe LBJ had a saying, "Don't shit me, cuz I know better"

[bannedforlife]

The CFL is competing against a mediocre product.
Look at even the television presentation of a cfl game vs an nfl game.
Toronto youre competing against the traffic, the fight for the entertainment dollar, demographics, cottage weekends etc.
Fantasy football. HUGE. Two of my fantasy leagues have wives in them. They can talk about aaron rodgers or odell beckham, but couldnt name the argos qb.

I don't buy that for a second, do people seriously believe Toronto is some sort of lone bastion of entertainment in this country and that other CFL cities don't have similar issues.

I was surprised when I read an article not long ago about some woman who threw these parties in Toronto that attracted pro athletes who were in town. Sounded like some sort of pimping operation but what I had always heard was that Montreal was the place everyone wanted to go to.

Seeing lots of young folk in Montreal at Als games (not enough overall) and no one can tell me that Toronto is a trendier, hipper town than Montreal.

So why the disconnect? A younger person in Toronto apparently can't be caught dead at an Argos game? Aren't there any rebels, iconoclasts against the grain, I find it so strange that people think it's cool to support big business. I guess supporting the underdog is passe?

[Argofan_1000]

So where are the stories about the Jays being back to having low attendance?

Cox won't write about that. He has a style about him that most people don't like. What Cox doesn't understand is that there is a fierce passion for the CFL from a lot of us. Not just here but all of Canada. I can't say that about any other sports any more. I may watch but don't have it for these other sports.

Had a passion for the Leafs at one time but as the game changed and the stars became less and less of a star, I don't care.

Remember Rogers pounds the drum and tries to elevate the players profile but it doesn't change the fact that hockey has the fewest players playing a major sport in the "A" class development leagues Talking about NCAA or Major Jr. A Hockey. That can't be good for the future of this sport. We are lucky that football has the mostly because of the NCAA participation rate. Also looks like football is growing world wide. Had know idea up until 2.0 how big it was.

NHL is a captive sports audience in the winter, with - 10C temp and 6 inches of snow on the ground in prime time on TV. Same for the Raptors, up until the playoff run not many cared, not many watched. Lots of give away corporate tickets. With no passion for these sports from me I wouldn't care too much if the teams disappeared. When the Raptors were in the playoff fight I never wrapped the Canadian Flag around me thinking this is a wonderful Canadian experience. I knew what it was, an American League with American players supported in Toronto with American TV money. Didn't and still can't understand the "Canadian" association with this team.

There is a dark cloud over the Argos right now but still, like many, become angry over articles like this. Angry over an asshole like Cox. It would be ok if he did it to his own, ate his own (BJ) but he won't. He's another one I would never miss.