Official Toronto Argonauts-Ottawa RedBlacks Game Thread September 7, 2019

[doubleblue]

For the record, both guys were drafted before Popp arrived/

I would like a second opinion on that one. Barker had traded away the first round pick for that year but was gone before the draft. So I believe it was Jim's first draft with the Argos.

[doubleblue]

I would like a second opinion on that one. Barker had traded away the first round pick for that year but was gone before the draft. So I believe it was Jim's first draft with the Argos.

Just looked it up. For the record Jim Popp was signed by the Argos February 28, 2017. Mason Woods and Foster were drafted that spring by Jim who obviously didn't know what he was doing. But he must have had a few coffees to get his heart started by the 4th round and picked Woodson. Has done pretty good ever since.

[AngeloV]

Just looked it up. For the record Jim Popp was signed by the Argos February 28, 2017. Mason Woods and Foster were drafted that spring by Jim who obviously didn't know what he was doing. But he must have had a few coffees to get his heart started by the 4th round and picked Woodson. Has done pretty good ever since.

Whether people want to believe it or not, the Canadian draft for the most part is a crap shoot. My guess is there are more players drafted deeper in the draft that are successful than first rounders. I really think people put way too much emphasis on the first round, which is why I never have a problem trading a first round pick. In fact, I would always trade a first round pick for multiple picks further down in the draft if I was a GM.

IMO, Woodson is as good a Canadian DB as there is in the league. I’ve been calling for him to start for the last couple of years. Probably also the best tackler we have in the secondary.

[gilthethrill]

Whether people want to believe it or not, the Canadian draft for the most part is a crap shoot. My guess is there are more players drafted deeper in the draft that are successful than first rounders. I really think people put way too much emphasis on the first round, which is why I never have a problem trading a first round pick. In fact, I would always trade a first round pick for multiple picks further down in the draft if I was a GM.

IMO, Woodson is as good a Canadian DB as there is in the league. I’ve been calling for him to start for the last couple of years. Probably also the best tackler we have in the secondary.

The Argos have not drafted particularly well in the top rounds, but looking at the roster, late picks have really panned out.

[OV Argo]

Not near as many Argo gear wearing fans at Lansdowne for this game as in the past ? Nice game day and still a nice stadium to see a game - had a good time even if there were not as many Argo fans to celebrate with (had to keep my Arrrrrgoooos chant to a dull roar - sitting with my RedBlacks season ticket holder buddies who were nice enough to offer me a ticket ;o) ) Not a big crowd - plenty of empty seats - maybe some feared the rain forecast, but also a lot of Ottawa fans may have given up on this putrid team already ? Desjardins & Campbell are both candidates to be punted wayyyyy out of town IMO (what type of moron brings in Joe Paopao and thinks that dullard could help their offence - no wonder it is a joke ??? GOB deluxe there)

Argos looking better - MacBeth learning and getting better - and a strong receiving corps to throw too (Noel should be playing more though IMO - have him replace Smith or Ralph at times for some different looks); Declan Cross no longer any factor to get the ball and make yards and truck some DBs though - and this is a mistake IMO - Ottawa offence similarly to dumb to use a big H-back like Beauieu = ultra predictable / lacking variety CFL offences. Argo defence is getting better too - Bear Woods showed he can still play and help lots; Coleman is a solid DT; Woodson & Robbie Smith are 2 classic examples of under-rated Canadian talent who show they can play very well when given a CFL chance; secondary still weak in allowing receivers to get open wayyyyy too often though.

RedBlacks are the worst team in the league now IMO - yep, worse than the gong show in BC.

West cross-over a done deal unless the Argo go on a late season tear / win streak ?

[REAL]

Cross gets no targets at all ?

[Jon Gonzo]

Whether people want to believe it or not, the Canadian draft for the most part is a crap shoot. My guess is there are more players drafted deeper in the draft that are successful than first rounders. I really think people put way too much emphasis on the first round, which is why I never have a problem trading a first round pick. In fact, I would always trade a first round pick for multiple picks further down in the draft if I was a GM.

IMO, Woodson is as good a Canadian DB as there is in the league. I’ve been calling for him to start for the last couple of years. Probably also the best tackler we have in the secondary.

Amateur drafts are the backbone to one of the most important, if not most important, elements of building a CFL team. Even more so than other professional leagues as there are no Canadian Content regulations in the other leagues.

And yes, I have heard the word crapshoot used for any draft, but that is all relative. It doesn't make the point I have made above irrelevant. Follow the teams in any league and you will see amateur scouting and development as very high on the list, again, if not #1.

The difference is often economic. NHL teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year with a phalanx of professional scouts. The CFL spends THOUSANDS, with one or two (sometimes) part time eyes.

Mistakes will be made in both cases, but more often in the CFL's case. But, again that is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that the team that drafts the best, builds their Cancon up quicker and the quicker and more efficiently you do that, the better the odds are of winning a Grey Cup.

The math is available that shows the effectiveness of the higher picks on a percentage basis. I have seen it somewhere along the line.

Also, while the number 1 overall picks have been complete misses in many cases (Josiah St. John, Faith Ekakitie, Mark Chapman, Linden Gaydosh and Shomari Williams) that has as much to do with the unique challenge that the CFL Draft presents.

It still remains that the other picks in the top 1 or 2 rounds are more likely to bring game-changing ratio busters to your team and help you win games.

Players like Alex Singleton, Alex Mateas, Sean McEwen, Sukh Chung, Branden Revenberg, Evan Johnson, Cameron Judge.

I get what you're saying, but I think you've underestimated the CFL Draft. I would say that history and math show us; the more picks the earlier, the better.

[AngeloV]

Amateur drafts are the backbone to one of the most important, if not most important, elements of building a CFL team. Even more so than other professional leagues as there are no Canadian Content regulations in the other leagues.

And yes, I have heard the word crapshoot used for any draft, but that is all relative. It doesn't make the point I have made above irrelevant. Follow the teams in any league and you will see amateur scouting and development as very high on the list, again, if not #1.

The difference is often economic. NHL teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year with a phalanx of professional scouts. The CFL spends THOUSANDS, with one or two (sometimes) part time eyes.

Mistakes will be made in both cases, but more often in the CFL's case. But, again that is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that the team that drafts the best, builds their Cancon up quicker and the quicker and more efficiently you do that, the better the odds are of winning a Grey Cup.

The math is available that shows the effectiveness of the higher picks on a percentage basis. I have seen it somewhere along the line.

Also, while the number 1 overall picks have been complete misses in many cases (Josiah St. John, Faith Ekakitie, Mark Chapman, Linden Gaydosh and Shomari Williams) that has as much to do with the unique challenge that the CFL Draft presents.

It still remains that the other picks in the top 1 or 2 rounds are more likely to bring game-changing ratio busters to your team and help you win games.

Players like Alex Singleton, Alex Mateas, Sean McEwen, Sukh Chung, Branden Revenberg, Evan Johnson, Cameron Judge.

I get what you're saying, but I think you've underestimated the CFL Draft. I would say that history and math show us; the more picks the earlier, the better.

I would still rather have (for example) 5 picks in the first 3 rounds with no first rounders, than 1 pick in each of the first 3 rounds. I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

[OV Argo]

Amateur drafts are the backbone to one of the most important, if not most important, elements of building a CFL team. Even more so than other professional leagues as there are no Canadian Content regulations in the other leagues.

And yes, I have heard the word crapshoot used for any draft, but that is all relative. It doesn't make the point I have made above irrelevant. Follow the teams in any league and you will see amateur scouting and development as very high on the list, again, if not #1.

The difference is often economic. NHL teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year with a phalanx of professional scouts. The CFL spends THOUSANDS, with one or two (sometimes) part time eyes.

Mistakes will be made in both cases, but more often in the CFL's case. But, again that is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that the team that drafts the best, builds their Cancon up quicker and the quicker and more efficiently you do that, the better the odds are of winning a Grey Cup.

The math is available that shows the effectiveness of the higher picks on a percentage basis. I have seen it somewhere along the line.

Also, while the number 1 overall picks have been complete misses in many cases (Josiah St. John, Faith Ekakitie, Mark Chapman, Linden Gaydosh and Shomari Williams) that has as much to do with the unique challenge that the CFL Draft presents.

It still remains that the other picks in the top 1 or 2 rounds are more likely to bring game-changing ratio busters to your team and help you win games.

Players like Alex Singleton, Alex Mateas, Sean McEwen, Sukh Chung, Branden Revenberg, Evan Johnson, Cameron Judge.

I get what you're saying, but I think you've underestimated the CFL Draft. I would say that history and math show us; the more picks the earlier, the better.

This year's Argo defence is featuring draft picks Laing, Gabriel, Herdman, Woodson and Robbie Smith - all solid D players who have contributed nicely; the Argos could have drafted Kwaku Boateng; they also once drafted Corey Greenwood (and could have re-signed him after he was with the Esks) - he is the best defensive player in the CFL this season (IMO). Nice to see some Canadian talent get a chance to play D in the CFL - the GOB trend the past number of years is to go with mostly imports on D (see Ottawa now with Desjardins, Campbell & Thorpe doing the thinking - yet they won their GC with mostly Canadians playing D-line).

The Als have an outstanding array of Canadian linebacker talent - Muamba, Ackie & Lokombo (with young draft picks and a vet like Plesius in reserve). They also went out and signed an all-star NI free agent D player in Loffler; draft pick from a few years back J-S Blanc could be starting at DE for them IMO, but he is used as a top special teamer more.

Smart CFL GMs & scouts can build a very good roster via the draft AND signing NI FAs or other team cuts or trading for Canadian talent - pay attention to Canadian talent and give them a shot to play - at ALL positions. 7 only thinking and always maximum number of imports on the game roster decisions takes away that chance to have a better team.

Gonzo is right IMO - hang to draft picks / acquire more PLUS sign top Canadian talent away from other teams when possible = you will have a very strong NI part of the roster and this could often equal MORE than half the battle (roster).

[KCargosfan]

This year's Argo defence is featuring draft picks Laing, Gabriel, Herdman, Woodson and Robbie Smith - all solid D players who have contributed nicely; the Argos could have drafted Kwaku Boateng; they also once drafted Corey Greenwood (and could have re-signed him after he was with the Esks) - he is the best defensive player in the CFL this season (IMO). Nice to see some Canadian talent get a chance to play D in the CFL - the GOB trend the past number of years is to go with mostly imports on D (see Ottawa now with Desjardins, Campbell & Thorpe doing the thinking - yet they won their GC with mostly Canadians playing D-line).

The Als have an outstanding array of Canadian linebacker talent - Muamba, Ackie & Lokombo (with young draft picks and a vet like Plesius in reserve). They also went out and signed an all-star NI free agent D player in Loffler; draft pick from a few years back J-S Blanc could be starting at DE for them IMO, but he is used as a top special teamer more.

Smart CFL GMs & scouts can build a very good roster via the draft AND signing NI FAs or other team cuts or trading for Canadian talent - pay attention to Canadian talent and give them a shot to play - at ALL positions. 7 only thinking and always maximum number of imports on the game roster decisions takes away that chance to have a better team.

Gonzo is right IMO - hang to draft picks / acquire more PLUS sign top Canadian talent away from other teams when possible = you will have a very strong NI part of the roster and this could often equal MORE than half the battle (roster).

Knowing is always half the battle!

[paulwoods13]

Just looked it up. For the record Jim Popp was signed by the Argos February 28, 2017. Mason Woods and Foster were drafted that spring by Jim who obviously didn't know what he was doing. But he must have had a few coffees to get his heart started by the 4th round and picked Woodson. Has done pretty good ever since.

Oops, my mistake, good catch. I must have confused the draft with that year's free agency which was handled by Zimmerman et al.