Official Toronto Argonauts-Ottawa RedBlacks Game Thread September 7, 2019

[argolio]

Good point.

Perhaps an eye test would be helpful. He doesn't seem to identify when receivers are covered, and not throw the ball.

He threw no picks in August. That wasn't going to last forever.

[Argo57]

He threw no picks in August. That wasn't going to last forever.

MBT recovered quite nicely after a rough start👍

[Jon Gonzo]

Whether people want to believe it or not, the Canadian draft for the most part is a crap shoot. My guess is there are more players drafted deeper in the draft that are successful than first rounders. I really think people put way too much emphasis on the first round, which is why I never have a problem trading a first round pick. In fact, I would always trade a first round pick for multiple picks further down in the draft if I was a GM.

IMO, Woodson is as good a Canadian DB as there is in the league. I’ve been calling for him to start for the last couple of years. Probably also the best tackler we have in the secondary.

Amateur drafts are the backbone to one of the most important, if not most important, elements of building a CFL team. Even more so than other professional leagues as there are no Canadian Content regulations in the other leagues.

And yes, I have heard the word crapshoot used for any draft, but that is all relative. It doesn't make the point I have made above irrelevant. Follow the teams in any league and you will see amateur scouting and development as very high on the list, again, if not #1.

The difference is often economic. NHL teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year with a phalanx of professional scouts. The CFL spends THOUSANDS, with one or two (sometimes) part time eyes.

Mistakes will be made in both cases, but more often in the CFL's case. But, again that is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that the team that drafts the best, builds their Cancon up quicker and the quicker and more efficiently you do that, the better the odds are of winning a Grey Cup.

The math is available that shows the effectiveness of the higher picks on a percentage basis. I have seen it somewhere along the line.

Also, while the number 1 overall picks have been complete misses in many cases (Josiah St. John, Faith Ekakitie, Mark Chapman, Linden Gaydosh and Shomari Williams) that has as much to do with the unique challenge that the CFL Draft presents.

It still remains that the other picks in the top 1 or 2 rounds are more likely to bring game-changing ratio busters to your team and help you win games.

Players like Alex Singleton, Alex Mateas, Sean McEwen, Sukh Chung, Branden Revenberg, Evan Johnson, Cameron Judge.

I get what you're saying, but I think you've underestimated the CFL Draft. I would say that history and math show us; the more picks the earlier, the better.

[paulwoods13]

Perhaps an eye test would be helpful. He doesn't seem to identify when receivers are covered, and not throw the ball.

Yeah, he's utterly terrible and should be punted out of town immediately.

[doubleblue]

Good post on the draft Jon Gonzo and you are correct scouting Canadian Talent is very important for the CFL because of the small pool of players and the ratio. Before the combine it really was a crap shoot except for the top few can't miss guys. But now a players weakness gets exposed during the drills at the combine and apparently the interviews. I wouldn't want to pick a player just on his interview as I have seen too many big talkers not be able to back it up. And there's the old saying "you got to watch those quiet guys".
So I was shocked back in the 2017 draft when Jim Popp picked Mason Woods at 10th overall and then passed over (like all other teams) Kwaku Boeteng in the 3rd round. Had their scouts not seen Boeteng play some games at Laurier and see him pancake Woods at the Combine. That's what I called an interview right there IMO.
With Foster maybe Jim was looking for a special teams demon because he wasn't big enough to play DE in the CFL. But I think he would have been available 3 rounds later. Then there was Jones and Sackey 1,2 in the 2016 draft by Jim Barker. But Jim and Jim have made many other good picks so we have to give them credit there. I don't have a real good feeling about the #1 pick this year. I hope I'm wrong and they can eventually plug him in at Guard down the road.
Sorry Mothers Woods, Foster, Jones and Sackey to be talking about your sons that way. I'm sure they are nice boys and will do well in the real world. But there's the old saying "all's fair in Love and War" and Pro Football is like War.

[Jon Gonzo]

Yeah, he's utterly terrible and should be punted out of town immediately.

Just imagine for a moment how unbearable this season would have been, without him.

Its that he's tough, his body language and that he never quits. That's what's kept me believing that we could surprise at almost anytime.

He's not perfect, but he's the best we've got. And that can be pretty darn good from time to time.

[AngeloV]

Amateur drafts are the backbone to one of the most important, if not most important, elements of building a CFL team. Even more so than other professional leagues as there are no Canadian Content regulations in the other leagues.

And yes, I have heard the word crapshoot used for any draft, but that is all relative. It doesn't make the point I have made above irrelevant. Follow the teams in any league and you will see amateur scouting and development as very high on the list, again, if not #1.

The difference is often economic. NHL teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year with a phalanx of professional scouts. The CFL spends THOUSANDS, with one or two (sometimes) part time eyes.

Mistakes will be made in both cases, but more often in the CFL's case. But, again that is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that the team that drafts the best, builds their Cancon up quicker and the quicker and more efficiently you do that, the better the odds are of winning a Grey Cup.

The math is available that shows the effectiveness of the higher picks on a percentage basis. I have seen it somewhere along the line.

Also, while the number 1 overall picks have been complete misses in many cases (Josiah St. John, Faith Ekakitie, Mark Chapman, Linden Gaydosh and Shomari Williams) that has as much to do with the unique challenge that the CFL Draft presents.

It still remains that the other picks in the top 1 or 2 rounds are more likely to bring game-changing ratio busters to your team and help you win games.

Players like Alex Singleton, Alex Mateas, Sean McEwen, Sukh Chung, Branden Revenberg, Evan Johnson, Cameron Judge.

I get what you're saying, but I think you've underestimated the CFL Draft. I would say that history and math show us; the more picks the earlier, the better.

I would still rather have (for example) 5 picks in the first 3 rounds with no first rounders, than 1 pick in each of the first 3 rounds. I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

[paulwoods13]

Just imagine for a moment how unbearable this season would have been, without him.

Its that he's tough, his body language and that he never quits. That's what's kept me believing that we could surprise at almost anytime.

He's not perfect, but he's the best we've got. And that can be pretty darn good from time to time.

Yes to all of this. And his play has been at a very high standard for the past five games, to the point where even some (not all, sadly, but some) of those who have crapped all over him in the past have had to acknowledge it. If he continues to play at his current standard the rest of the way, he will not only be the strong favourite to be our starter next year (assuming he still wants to be here, which I would bet on) but he might very well end up as the East Division's all-star QB. Masoli getting hurt helped in that regard (and so did Franklin getting hurt, of course), but right now he is playing better than anyone in the league.

[gilthethrill]

Yes to all of this. And his play has been at a very high standard for the past five games, to the point where even some (not all, sadly, but some) of those who have crapped all over him in the past have had to acknowledge it. If he continues to play at his current standard the rest of the way, he will not only be the strong favourite to be our starter next year (assuming he still wants to be here, which I would bet on) but he might very well end up as the East Division's all-star QB. Masoli getting hurt helped in that regard (and so did Franklin getting hurt, of course), but right now he is playing better than anyone in the league.

When the Argos got shut out in Edmonton this season, I honestly thought MBT was playing his last game in Double Blue. He has bounced back nicely.

[OV Argo]

Amateur drafts are the backbone to one of the most important, if not most important, elements of building a CFL team. Even more so than other professional leagues as there are no Canadian Content regulations in the other leagues.

And yes, I have heard the word crapshoot used for any draft, but that is all relative. It doesn't make the point I have made above irrelevant. Follow the teams in any league and you will see amateur scouting and development as very high on the list, again, if not #1.

The difference is often economic. NHL teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year with a phalanx of professional scouts. The CFL spends THOUSANDS, with one or two (sometimes) part time eyes.

Mistakes will be made in both cases, but more often in the CFL's case. But, again that is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that the team that drafts the best, builds their Cancon up quicker and the quicker and more efficiently you do that, the better the odds are of winning a Grey Cup.

The math is available that shows the effectiveness of the higher picks on a percentage basis. I have seen it somewhere along the line.

Also, while the number 1 overall picks have been complete misses in many cases (Josiah St. John, Faith Ekakitie, Mark Chapman, Linden Gaydosh and Shomari Williams) that has as much to do with the unique challenge that the CFL Draft presents.

It still remains that the other picks in the top 1 or 2 rounds are more likely to bring game-changing ratio busters to your team and help you win games.

Players like Alex Singleton, Alex Mateas, Sean McEwen, Sukh Chung, Branden Revenberg, Evan Johnson, Cameron Judge.

I get what you're saying, but I think you've underestimated the CFL Draft. I would say that history and math show us; the more picks the earlier, the better.

This year's Argo defence is featuring draft picks Laing, Gabriel, Herdman, Woodson and Robbie Smith - all solid D players who have contributed nicely; the Argos could have drafted Kwaku Boateng; they also once drafted Corey Greenwood (and could have re-signed him after he was with the Esks) - he is the best defensive player in the CFL this season (IMO). Nice to see some Canadian talent get a chance to play D in the CFL - the GOB trend the past number of years is to go with mostly imports on D (see Ottawa now with Desjardins, Campbell & Thorpe doing the thinking - yet they won their GC with mostly Canadians playing D-line).

The Als have an outstanding array of Canadian linebacker talent - Muamba, Ackie & Lokombo (with young draft picks and a vet like Plesius in reserve). They also went out and signed an all-star NI free agent D player in Loffler; draft pick from a few years back J-S Blanc could be starting at DE for them IMO, but he is used as a top special teamer more.

Smart CFL GMs & scouts can build a very good roster via the draft AND signing NI FAs or other team cuts or trading for Canadian talent - pay attention to Canadian talent and give them a shot to play - at ALL positions. 7 only thinking and always maximum number of imports on the game roster decisions takes away that chance to have a better team.

Gonzo is right IMO - hang to draft picks / acquire more PLUS sign top Canadian talent away from other teams when possible = you will have a very strong NI part of the roster and this could often equal MORE than half the battle (roster).

[KCargosfan]

This year's Argo defence is featuring draft picks Laing, Gabriel, Herdman, Woodson and Robbie Smith - all solid D players who have contributed nicely; the Argos could have drafted Kwaku Boateng; they also once drafted Corey Greenwood (and could have re-signed him after he was with the Esks) - he is the best defensive player in the CFL this season (IMO). Nice to see some Canadian talent get a chance to play D in the CFL - the GOB trend the past number of years is to go with mostly imports on D (see Ottawa now with Desjardins, Campbell & Thorpe doing the thinking - yet they won their GC with mostly Canadians playing D-line).

The Als have an outstanding array of Canadian linebacker talent - Muamba, Ackie & Lokombo (with young draft picks and a vet like Plesius in reserve). They also went out and signed an all-star NI free agent D player in Loffler; draft pick from a few years back J-S Blanc could be starting at DE for them IMO, but he is used as a top special teamer more.

Smart CFL GMs & scouts can build a very good roster via the draft AND signing NI FAs or other team cuts or trading for Canadian talent - pay attention to Canadian talent and give them a shot to play - at ALL positions. 7 only thinking and always maximum number of imports on the game roster decisions takes away that chance to have a better team.

Gonzo is right IMO - hang to draft picks / acquire more PLUS sign top Canadian talent away from other teams when possible = you will have a very strong NI part of the roster and this could often equal MORE than half the battle (roster).

Knowing is always half the battle!

[RB957]

Yes to all of this. And his play has been at a very high standard for the past five games, to the point where even some (not all, sadly, but some) of those who have crapped all over him in the past have had to acknowledge it. If he continues to play at his current standard the rest of the way, he will not only be the strong favourite to be our starter next year (assuming he still wants to be here, which I would bet on) but he might very well end up as the East Division's all-star QB. Masoli getting hurt helped in that regard (and so did Franklin getting hurt, of course), but right now he is playing better than anyone in the league.

I will admit I have been one of those who have crapped over MBT a bit... not all over him, but a bit. I always admired his grit and passion and he always projected as such a decent person on top of that. I just never thought he had the skill set. But I have to admit his play has improved greatly, but not to the point that I think he is our long-term answer at the QB position. Sorry, just can't go that far at this point, and I think it would be dangerous to draw too many conclusions from the fact he has played well over the past five games.