Justin Dunk reporting Ryan Dinwiddie is the new Argos head coach

[ArgoZ]

Without going back and looking at all 14 losses, I think you're possibly being generous at just 3-4. In-game coaching decisions were mind-boggling all season. Maybe CC had too many responsibilities as DC and HC, but there's no excusing some of the insane decisions on third downs and challenges.

I think it’s a fair number. Better coaching would have made games closer, but there’s no guarantee they win those games. We lost close games that were directly because of coaching (3), quarterbacking (2) and kicking (2). Combined with our 4 wins and that’s an 11 win season right there.

[paulwoods13]

I think it’s a fair number. Better coaching would have made games closer, but there’s no guarantee they win those games. We lost close games that were directly because of coaching (3), quarterbacking (2) and kicking (2). Combined with our 4 wins and that’s an 11 win season right there.

Interesting. Which two losses do you attribute to quarterback play?

[Neely2005]

No problem buddy...Argos App?

Yeah it's available for Android and iOS. It's been out for about a year now I think.

[Neely2005]

Interesting. Which two losses do you attribute to quarterback play?

I'll go with the games where MBT scored 0 Points.

[argolio]

I think it’s a fair number. Better coaching would have made games closer, but there’s no guarantee they win those games. We lost close games that were directly because of coaching (3), quarterbacking (2) and kicking (2). Combined with our 4 wins and that’s an 11 win season right there.

I find it hard to believe it was possible to squeeze 11 wins out of this team. We were either last or in the bottom half of the league in points scored and allowed, yards gained and allowed, time of possession, sacks, sacks allowed, turnovers, turnover ratio, knockdowns, punt and kickoff return average, punting and net punting average, FG percentage, special teams penalties, and the list goes on. We were also last in first quarter scoring, which meant we had to throw more to try and catch up. If MBT didn't have the year he had, 2019 would have been an all-time CFL disastrous season instead of just a bad Argo one.

I still put deficiency in line play as our biggest problem. O-line and d-line are the least sexiest positions, but you can't win without efficient, physical line play. For me, that's what drove Winnipeg's playoff run. If the Argos can fix that, you have the basis for a successful team.

I'll go with the games where MBT scored 0 Points.

So one game.

[ArgoZ]

I think it’s a fair number. Better coaching would have made games closer, but there’s no guarantee they win those games. We lost close games that were directly because of coaching (3), quarterbacking (2) and kicking (2). Combined with our 4 wins and that’s an 11 win season right there.

There are a lots of examples of bad QB play. Mostly early season games, where the combination of Franklin and MBT where very poor, but they may have got blown out regardless.

I blame the QB for two of these three losses. Although the last one may be controversial, I stand by that great players make plays when it counts. Keep in mind, we are nitpicking here, looking for wins instead of losses.

26-16 Calgary loss, where the Argos marched into the red zone multiple times but came up short resulting in MBT’s 4 interceptions. The defence played good. Very winnable game.

26-0 shut out loss to Edmonton was a lot closer than the score shows. Terrible QB play by MBT and Prukop. Edmonton didn’t look impressive either, we were just that bad and inept.

Touchdown Atlantic. I know MBT numbers were good. With a chance to win on the final play, he has to hit the numbers or lead the receiver. Throws to the back shoulder and defensive back makes a play. I know we have debated that play before, but an accurate and/or great QB puts that on the money with the game on the line.

[ArgoZ]

I find it hard to believe it was possible to squeeze 11 wins out of this team.

It wasn’t possible, but with only a few changes, those close games (some where we lost in the last minute) could have been won.

[gilthethrill]

There are a lots of examples of bad QB play. Mostly early season games, where the combination of Franklin and MBT where very poor, but they may have got blown out regardless.

I blame the QB for these three losses. Although the last one may be controversial, I stand by that great players make plays when it counts.

26-16 Calgary loss, where the Argos marched into the red zone multiple times but came up short resulting in MBT’s 4 interceptions. The defence played good. Very winnable game.

26-0 shut out loss to Edmonton was a lot closer than the score shows. Terrible QB play by MBT and Prukop. Edmonton didn’t look impressive either, we were just that bad and inept.

Touchdown Atlantic. I know MBT numbers were good. With a chance to win on the final play, he has to hit the numbers or lead the receiver. Throws to the back shoulder and defensive back makes a play. I know we have debated that play before, but an accurate and/or great QB puts that on the money with the game on the line.

I have to argue about the TD Atlantic Game. MBT was outstanding on that final, long drive. His big error in that game was at the end of the 1st half when he should have just fell on a loose ball while in chip shot FG range instead of trying to pick the ball up to make a play.

[Argo57]

There are a lots of examples of bad QB play. Mostly early season games, where the combination of Franklin and MBT where very poor, but they may have got blown out regardless.

I blame the QB for two of these three losses. Although the last one may be controversial, I stand by that great players make plays when it counts. Keep in mind, we are nitpicking here, looking for wins instead of losses.

26-16 Calgary loss, where the Argos marched into the red zone multiple times but came up short resulting in MBT’s 4 interceptions. The defence played good. Very winnable game.

26-0 shut out loss to Edmonton was a lot closer than the score shows. Terrible QB play by MBT and Prukop. Edmonton didn’t look impressive either, we were just that bad and inept.

Touchdown Atlantic. I know MBT numbers were good. With a chance to win on the final play, he has to hit the numbers or lead the receiver. Throws to the back shoulder and defensive back makes a play. I know we have debated that play before, but an accurate and/or great QB puts that on the money with the game on the line.

MBT’s last throw in the Touchdown Atlantic game was highly catchable.

[paulwoods13]

I agree we had terrible quarterback play in Calgary and Edmonton altho I would argue the Edmonton game was lost for more reasons than quarterbacking. I of course disagree the TD Atlantic loss can be pinned on the QB; the fact we managed to get a shot at winning on the final play (despite being 100 yards from the end zone with a minute left, no timeouts, and a couple of dropped passes along the way) was certainly on the QB, tho.

[AngeloV]

MBT’s last throw in the Touchdown Atlantic game was highly catchable.

I’ve seen so many replays of that last play. Absolutely should have been caught. The thing that bothers me is people that say SJ was wide open and he threw to the wrong guy. BS. For starters, if your first read is open you take it. Secondly, SJ doesn’t get open until the ball was already released. The wide angle replay clearly shows this.

[Neely2005]

So one game.

What one isn't enough?

IIRC there was a second game where MBT scored 0 Points and then Franklin came in to finish the game and Franklin scored.

[argolio]

IIRC there was a second game where MBT scored 0 Points and then Franklin came in to finish the game and Franklin scored.

Wrong.

MBT's only poor games were against Edmonton and Calgary, both playoff teams. He wasn't the one who put up zero points in that disaster at B.C.

[Rich]

If MBT didn't have the year he had, 2019 would have been an all-time CFL disastrous season instead of just a bad Argo one.

Yes and we should be thankful that we only experienced the deep disappointment of back-to-back bad seasons, and not the ignominious shame of an all-time disastrous one. Whew!

I think that if we had the kind of high-quality QBing that Zach Collaros gave Winnipeg -- for all 18 games -- I think we would have been 9-9 or better.

Collaros did so many things better than Argo QBs could this year. He is excellent at evading the rush, he knows when to take off and he knows when to throw the ball away. He throws a very good long ball, and a better and more accurate ball in general. And he has a savvy and a game sense that was completely absent behind centre for the Argonauts. Great QBing can lift a whole team. Hopefully we'll find that out next year.

[Rich]

So pretty well everyone on here was wrong, either in declaring O'Shea was coming

I must admit, Paul, that I was pretty certain Mikey was coming. I think if the Bombers hadn't won the Cup he still would have, or maybe even he would have been axed. Six years is a long time to stay in one place without winning.

But being Grey Cup Champ HC changes everything. Who wouldn't want to dine out on that for a year or two? He sure wouldn't be able to enjoy it if he took the Argo job -- starting all over again from the bottom in a high-pressure situation.

I still think though there's a good chance that Mike O'Shea will be HC of the Argonauts some day in the future.

[Rich]

I love the idea that Dinwiddie is a QB whisperer type coach who knows how to get the best out a a QB. He's come to the right team, right? It's not just the prospect of Arbuckle being groomed for #1. This hire is the best possible news for Michael O'Connor and maybe Prukop too. The QB coaching couldn't have been any worse than it was last year, but they really have a much better chance to develop now.

I think a HC should be always talking to his QB during the course of a game. Most of the great coach/QB combos in the sport do this. Last year I watched time and time again beleaguered Argo QBs slinking back to the sideline after another bad series, not even going near Chamblin who was busy organizing his defence, and rarely even encountering Chapdelaine, who was either in the pressbox or else pacing like a madman on the sidelines, barking out a word or two to the QB as he passed by.

It's hard to believe just how bad this coaching staff was.

[paulwoods13]

I think a HC should be always talking to his QB during the course of a game. Most of the great coach/QB combos in the sport do this. Last year I watched time and time again beleaguered Argo QBs slinking back to the sideline after another bad series, not even going near Chamblin who was busy organizing his defence, and rarely even encountering Chapdelaine, who was either in the pressbox or else pacing like a madman on the sidelines, barking out a word or two to the QB as he passed by.

This is a good point. MBT's play (and the brief flashes we saw of Prukop and O'Connor in the last two games) seemed to have been helped immensely by having Jonathan Crompton on the sideline to talk to them and review the tablet replays with them. I think there is an excellent chance Crompton stays on staff, as QB coach or OC, and rehiring him might help persuade MBT and/or Prukop to re-sign (if the team wants one or both of them back).

Among the other assistant coaches, even though our o-line was weak most of the season, I wouldn't mind if Dan Dorazio was brought back. I've been reading the book that Angus Reid wrote about him and he comes off a the kind of coach who has a huge impact on his players. For all we know, maybe Dorazio got more out of the o-line than anyone else would have.

[Neely2005]

Wrong.

MBT's only poor games were against Edmonton and Calgary, both playoff teams. He wasn't the one who put up zero points in that disaster at B.C.

It's the CFL. Unless terrible weather is a factor you should Never get shutout!

And for the record he also had 0 Points against Saskatchewan (in limited playing time on Canada Day) and Calgary.

So like I said, twice.

[argolio]

Yes and we should be thankful that we only experienced the deep disappointment of back-to-back bad seasons, and not the ignominious shame of an all-time disastrous one. Whew!

I think that if we had the kind of high-quality QBing that Zach Collaros gave Winnipeg -- for all 18 games -- I think we would have been 9-9 or better.

Collaros did so many things better than Argo QBs could this year. He is excellent at evading the rush, he knows when to take off and he knows when to throw the ball away. He throws a very good long ball, and a better and more accurate ball in general. And he has a savvy and a game sense that was completely absent behind centre for the Argonauts. Great QBing can lift a whole team. Hopefully we'll find that out next year.

9-9? I doubt it with our line play and other issues.

Collaros didn't play lights out in his one regular season start and the playoffs. He just played steady and didn't turn the ball over. Winnipeg had the line play all season that we didn't. I like Collaros, but can he still be the dynamic QB he was five years ago? Not sure.

It's the CFL. Unless terrible weather is a factor you should Never get shutout!

And for the record he also had 0 Points against Saskatchewan (in limited playing time on Canada Day) and Calgary.

So like I said, twice.

LOL, he threw 6 passes as an injury replacement in one drive during mop-up time. Only someone with an agenda would fault a backup QB in that situation for getting "shutout!".

And the shutout was Edmonton, not Calgary.

[Jon Gonzo]

LOL, he threw 6 passes as an injury replacement in one drive during mop-up time. Only someone with an agenda would fault a backup QB in that situation for getting "shutout!".

And the shutout was Edmonton, not Calgary.

Agenda? I think our agenda's are all quite similar & that is wins and successes. Also, as Pinball says, we all MUST learn from the losing. 2019 can't be wasted. That is why Dinwiddie is here, and it is also why MBT won't be counted on as a starter in the CFL in 2020. The results are in, that would be foolhardy and the definition of insanity.

MBT deserves credit for his season. He displayed intestinal fortitude and moxy. He'd possibly make the best 2nd stringer in the league for maybe another season or so, but we had tons of time to evaluate and you cannot safely go into a season expecting him to be your starter.