How Could the Coronavirus affect the Argos and the CFL

[paulwoods13]

Friday on the Rod Peterson Show, Rod and some of his guests were saying the CFL should stop asking th Canadian Government for money and go to the NFL. That 150 million the CFL needs would be about 5 mil per NFL team, or chicken feed for them.

The 2018 year income for the NFL shows they received about 15 Billion in TV rights. On top of that they have their ticket sales, licensing rights, corporate sponsorships etc. Gambling is the next big thing they will be getting a cut of.

Green Bay had a 2018 total income of 455 million. Dallas the richest team had according to Forbes, 864 Million

The NFL does not want to see the CFL go down, and I don't think they will stand by and let it happen. But, I'm still a little suspicious of the very public ask of 150 Million. They had to know the public backlash would be severe. I don't for one minute think Randy is flying by the seat of his pants making all the decisions

Anyone who thinks the NFL won't see a revenue reduction because of COVID-19 is dreaming. The entire world, and virtually every business, is affected by this. The NFL may be able to protect its TV revenues this year but it, like every other league, is going to see a sharp reduction in gate revenue. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the NFL to help the CFL, or even to care if the CFL goes out of business. Not happening.

[AngeloV]

Anyone who thinks the NFL won't see a revenue reduction because of COVID-19 is dreaming. The entire world, and virtually every business, is affected by this. The NFL may be able to protect its TV revenues this year but it, like every other league, is going to see a sharp reduction in gate revenue. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the NFL to help the CFL, or even to care if the CFL goes out of business. Not happening.

I agree with this. Yes, the TV contract is disgustingly huge, but let's conservatively say that NFL teams average 70k per game at $60 per ticket. That's $33.6M in ticket sales lost and doesn't even include pre or post season. And as I said, very conservative. Teams like Dallas would probably lose double that amount in ticket sales alone.

[OV Argo]

The NFL can't care much about the CFL now - got their own worries.

But, IF, down the road, the CFL is on shaky ground / about to fold, I could see the NFL stepping in to maybe provide help and make the CFL a farm league sort of thing as doubleblue is suggesting; now that might mean some rule changes to make the CFL more like American ball, and the ratio would have to be done away with of course - and the BOGs and their GOBs would have no problem with that, and desperate for ca$h could mean anything is on the table. Could pave the way for an NFL team in Toronnawannanbeland down the road too. And this would be cause for all the wannabes up here to rejoice. And the CFL "ratio problem" cry-baby fans we hear from up here would probably be OK with this too. Would they still call this the CFL though ?

[jerrym]

Former Argo owner David Cynamon comments on the CFL problems during the Covid-19 pandemic below:

While Cynamon owned the double blue, the Argos won the Grey Cup in 2004 when Michael “Pinball” Clemons became the first black head coach to lead a Canadian franchise to the CFL championship. Despite the on-field success, the bottom line was never in the black, the boatmen lost money during his six years at the helm of the ship.

Therefore it was no shock to Cynamon when current CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie revealed to the standing committee on finance, collectively, teams lose between $10 and $20 million dollars a season while asking for Canadian government financial aid due to the COVID-19 crisis. ...

“When you’re living on the edge financially anyway and then you take away a material amount of your revenue and your in-stadium advertising and everything that comes with it, it cannot function and it doesn’t work,” Cynamon said. “This is an invisible enemy that we relied on government to protect us from and I just don’t believe in economic lines being drawn when it’s nobody’s fault. I can’t accept the bullet being shot from the gun by something of a pandemic like this that nobody asked for.” ...

Cynamon told Heroux he believes the federal government needs to help the CFL and inevitably will because many Canadians have jobs in and around the league when it’s operating full force. “Those individuals that were working the concession or the jersey stores or the beer concession or selling magazines, they are the people that are affected,” Cynamon said. “It’s all just us Canadians behind it and that’s the real unfortunate suffering that goes on and that’s the part that really bothers me the most.”

https://3downnation.com/2020/05/11/f...e-financially/

[1971GreyCup]

FYI,
Boston Globe today
MLB owners approve proposal to start baseball season in July
Major League Baseball owners gave the go-ahead Monday to making a proposal to the players’ union that could lead to the coronavirus-delayed season starting around the Fourth of July weekend in ballparks without fans, a plan that envisioned expanding the designated hitter to the National League for 2020.

Blue Jays crossborder issue?
Plenty of players will be traveling from the Caribbean, Japan and Korea for training camp.

[doubleblue]

FYI,
Boston Globe today
MLB owners approve proposal to start baseball season in July
Major League Baseball owners gave the go-ahead Monday to making a proposal to the players’ union that could lead to the coronavirus-delayed season starting around the Fourth of July weekend in ballparks without fans, a plan that envisioned expanding the designated hitter to the National League for 2020.

Blue Jays crossborder issue?
Plenty of players will be traveling from the Caribbean, Japan and Korea for training camp.

On the news tonight the Blue Jays are looking at playing their home games out of their spring training park in Dunedin.

[doubleblue]

The NFL can't care much about the CFL now - got their own worries.

But, IF, down the road, the CFL is on shaky ground / about to fold, I could see the NFL stepping in to maybe provide help and make the CFL a farm league sort of thing as doubleblue is suggesting; now that might mean some rule changes to make the CFL more like American ball, and the ratio would have to be done away with of course - and the BOGs and their GOBs would have no problem with that, and desperate for ca$h could mean anything is on the table. Could pave the way for an NFL team in Toronnawannanbeland down the road too. And this would be cause for all the wannabes up here to rejoice. And the CFL "ratio problem" cry-baby fans we hear from up here would probably be OK with this too. Would they still call this the CFL though ?

Things are rather shaky for the League right now. The NFL might only have to place X number of players on CFL rosters and pick up the tab. That could make a difference for the CFL and allow them to lower their salary cap expense. The NFL have had 8 players on their PR and are talking about increasing it to 14. Why not have some of them getting some playing experience. The ratio wouldn't have to change.
For that to happen I believe the CFL would have to shut down completely and re-start with a new PA.
I'm not so sure this kind of deal hasn't already happened between the Leagues for a player here or there. But 8-10 players a year would make a difference for the CFL bottom line.

[AngeloV]

Things are rather shaky for the League right now. The NFL might only have to place X number of players on CFL rosters and pick up the tab. That could make a difference for the CFL and allow them to lower their salary cap expense. The NFL have had 8 players on their PR and are talking about increasing it to 14. Why not have some of them getting some playing experience. The ratio wouldn't have to change.
For that to happen I believe the CFL would have to shut down completely and re-start with a new PA.
I'm not so sure this kind of deal hasn't already happened between the Leagues for a player here or there. But 8-10 players a year would make a difference for the CFL bottom line.

Not a fan of this idea. Theoretically, the NFL would only send players up here if they are guaranteed to be starters, otherwise why send them at all? That puts teams in a bad situation of perhaps having to start an inferior player because they are obligated to do so.

[Shatto]

The idea of the NFL sending some of their players (PR players or players recovering from injury) to the CFL would help financially but it would turn the CFL into a quasi-farm team league. It would certainly stamp the CFL as minor league. Eventually the NFL would probably send half a dozen to a dozen players to each team with conditions on how they are to be utilized. If that were the case I'd would decline to be a STH.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

The NFL can't care much about the CFL now - got their own worries.

But, IF, down the road, the CFL is on shaky ground / about to fold, I could see the NFL stepping in to maybe provide help and make the CFL a farm league sort of thing as doubleblue is suggesting; now that might mean some rule changes to make the CFL more like American ball, and the ratio would have to be done away with of course - and the BOGs and their GOBs would have no problem with that, and desperate for ca$h could mean anything is on the table. Could pave the way for an NFL team in Toronnawannanbeland down the road too. And this would be cause for all the wannabes up here to rejoice. And the CFL "ratio problem" cry-baby fans we hear from up here would probably be OK with this too. Would they still call this the CFL though ?

Those GOB's would all be out of a job once the initial press conference high is over.NFL would use the psuedo-CFL as a test bed for their game.

[OV Argo]

Those GOB's would all be out of a job once the initial press conference high is over.NFL would use the psuedo-CFL as a test bed for their game.

Maybe there could be a GOB ratio in the new look CFL? - but GOBs would not get to try-out for HC, that would be reserved for superior NFL trained coaches only ? ;o)

[doubleblue]

The idea of the NFL sending some of their players (PR players or players recovering from injury) to the CFL would help financially but it would turn the CFL into a quasi-farm team league. It would certainly stamp the CFL as minor league. Eventually the NFL would probably send half a dozen to a dozen players to each team with conditions on how they are to be utilized. If that were the case I'd would decline to be a STH.

All the NFL teams would have to do is make half a dozen players available from their 90 man roster for the CFL teams to pick from. Players they know would be PR players but ones they still like for the future. Two players per NFL team would be a total of seven players per CFL team. That's about half a million saving for CFL teams. There could be other ways the NFL could help generate more income for the CFL. How about a CFL Madden game or open the door for the Gambling that the NFL is going to allow. The NFL stamp can open up doors for the CFL. That's all though if the NFL wants to help keep the CFL operating. If as some on here claim they don't care what happens to the CFL well I guess they won't try and help out. As far as being a quasi-farm team League. The way I understand things, is that every CFL player has the opportunity to sign with a NFL team in the off season now. I don't see the difference. But I do see reality.

[paulwoods13]

Again, why would the NFL waste any time worrying about the CFL's future, or trying to funnel financial help to the CFL? Why would the CFL's plight even be on the NFL's radar at all?

[AngeloV]

As far as being a quasi-farm team League. The way I understand things, is that every CFL player has the opportunity to sign with a NFL team in the off season now. I don't see the difference. But I do see reality.

Again, the major difference being the NFL would dictate who plays and who doesn't in this scenario. The players they send to the CFL would be guaranteed starting spots. I say no thanks to that.

[OV Argo]

All the NFL teams would have to do is make half a dozen players available from their 90 man roster for the CFL teams to pick from. Players they know would be PR players but ones they still like for the future. Two players per NFL team would be a total of seven players per CFL team. That's about half a million saving for CFL teams. There could be other ways the NFL could help generate more income for the CFL. How about a CFL Madden game or open the door for the Gambling that the NFL is going to allow. The NFL stamp can open up doors for the CFL. That's all though if the NFL wants to help keep the CFL operating. If as some on here claim they don't care what happens to the CFL well I guess they won't try and help out. As far as being a quasi-farm team League. The way I understand things, is that every CFL player has the opportunity to sign with a NFL team in the off season now. I don't see the difference. But I do see reality.

I see what you're getting at but not going to happen, IMO - unless the NFL sees an opportunity for an NFL team in TO (and they really want this plus have a billionaire owner and a new stadium plan in place) and some support for the CFL could speed that up.

. And the NFL could easily treat the CFL as a de facto farm league with things as they are now; all they would have to do is install a full-time scout or two to track each CFL team's roster AND watch all the games; but they don\t and they don't have enough respect for CFL talent, and the odd individual NFL team can pluck the odd CFL player as they see fit anyhow.

Having the CFL as a development play thingy for some of their younger prospects? - i guess they might like that, but not sure they would be willing to invest the buck$ (they would likely have to pay the CFL way more than just the roster spot salaries ?) plus risk the guy getting injured playing up here ?

Anyhow - IMO - the CFL should be able to find a way to survive on it's own as they always have; I'd suggest re-patriating the league to some degree (more Canadians on rosters; way more Canadian football decision makers hired by the BOGoofs) rather than giving in to yet more American influence on our game/league, as the BOGs and their GOBs have been doing for decades; time for the pendulum to swing back the other way.

[argolio]

Again, why would the NFL waste any time worrying about the CFL's future, or trying to funnel financial help to the CFL? Why would the CFL's plight even be on the NFL's radar at all?

I'm not saying they necessarily would, but 1) they've done it once before, 2) CFL-NFL relations have generally been very good, and 3) the existence of another viable pro league in North America supposedly helps the NFL in terms of American anti-trust laws.


I can't see how the CFL using NFL practice roster players would work. The NFL activates those players when injuries hit. What if someone was playing great in the CFL and then got called back home the week before the Grey Cup? Really bad look for the CFL.

If the CFL survives Coronavirus, I expect little will change. If it doesn't, then we're talking about the possibility of a CFL successor league. How that might look is anyone's guess. Maybe an all-West league?

[Golden Fleece]

NFL teams loaning out practice roster players to CFL teams is an absolute non-starter. The teams and the coaches want control over every aspect of that player's development they can. They use PR players for scout teams and they love the availability to activate a player at a moment's notice. Moreover, the NFL is about global market dominance and squeezing every dollar it can out of every opportunity. I'd be surprised if they were willing to even offer a 3 million dollar loan again, not that I think the CFL should risk being beholden to them again.

[paulwoods13]

I'm not saying they necessarily would, but 1) they've done it once before, 2) CFL-NFL relations have generally been very good, and 3) the existence of another viable pro league in North America supposedly helps the NFL in terms of American anti-trust laws.

I'd respond by noting (1) That was almost 25 years ago -- a lot has changed since then; (2) Sure, but NFL has its own problems to contend with right now; (3) I don't think anti-trust has been a concern in the free-market/pro-monopoly/anti-red-tape United States since before the Reagan era (i.e. 40 years ago).

[Argofan_1000]

Again, the major difference being the NFL would dictate who plays and who doesn't in this scenario. The players they send to the CFL would be guaranteed starting spots. I say no thanks to that.

I am not interested in this NFL feeder league ever. I don't mind rule changes, field size tweeks but I want the league to become stronger on an off the field. More money would get us there. Signing the best Canadians in the draft and repatriating what's in the NFL now. Plus changes to at least the on field ratio rules starts us moving that way.

Bills are good now but they weren't for a long while. Make those and other changes as I stated above and would you want to play the Grey Cup champs? They will breathe fire to win. There is not a significant difference as they all have the same pedigree. It won't be like the 1960's It will be much closer. Our Canadians are no longer amateurs like they were back in the 60's. That's where I want the league to go

[Shatto]

The NFL will have financial issues themselves, if they have to play in closed venues. With their TV revenue, it will be quite possible for them to operate successfully but it is unlikely they will want to assist us financially. As far as our teams becoming farm teams for the NFL----not a proposal that most CFL fans would willingly accept.