How Could the Coronavirus affect the Argos and the CFL

[Mightygoose]

Yeah giving Canadian tax dollars to Non-Canadians isn't going to fly.

Yup. Which I believe the PA was part of the process so far. Now that many MPs are saying they need to be part of this, it opens the door.

We'll see the league and PA moving together on this now per there government's permission...ans framed as demand.

[jerrym]

I posted a poll earlier on the effect of Covid-19 on fan's interest and attendance at sport events, but that poll was an American one. Below are the results of a Canadian poll. Granted this poll focuses on Winnipeg's Blue Bombers and Jets, which is not representative of the Toronto situation, but it does provide some information on CFL interest across the country by city and region. As one might suspect, there is significantly more interest in the return of the CFL in the West.

If the Winnipeg Jets and Blue Bombers were to start up play in the fall and there were no restrictions on fans entering stadiums, would you attend? After going through social distancing protocols for months, would Manitobans have reservations about sitting in tightly packed arenas and stadiums in the future? The answers, at least right now, may be found in a study released Thursday by the Angus Reid Institute. It suggests even the most ardent sports fans in Canada are going to be leery about going to sporting events until a vaccine is developed for COVID-19.

One-quarter of the hardcore sports fans polled by Angus Reid said they absolutely would not attend an event next October or November, even if they were given free tickets. Another 40% said they would have to do some deliberating before making up their minds and 35% said they would attend with no reservations.

All this underlines how difficult it is going to be for pro sports to get back to pre-COVID levels of business. First of all, no one knows when teams will be allowed to have fans in the stands again, and secondly, no one knows if those fans are going to want to attend.

It’s a scary thought for the publicly-owned Blue Bombers, who rely on gate receipts to stay in business. Even for the Jets, who have built a wonderful fan base over the last nine years, there won’t be the same appetite for the live product. ...

Polled about their interest in televised games without fans in the stands, 59% of ardent sports fans said it’s fine, not the same, but better than nothing, 29% said it’s great, whatever gets the games back on TV, and 12% said it’s terrible, they may as well not even play. ...

Just how much of a role does fan atmosphere play in the entertainment side of sports? On the good news side, the poll suggested a vast majority of Canadians are sports fans with 39% identifying as avid, 34% as casual and only 27% saying they are not at all interested. That is certainly promising in helping to bring pro sports back when the pandemic is finally under control.

However, with so many Canadians facing financial hardships due to economic shutdowns, it’s hard to imagine everyone lining up immediately to spend their cash on over-priced NHL tickets.

It would seem that will be the real test, as the majority of people polled (59%) said they were missing the NHL more than any other sport.

Meanwhile, 33% of Canadian sports fans said they will be disappointed if there is no football — CFL or NFL — in 2020. The NFL is still planning to go ahead with a full 18-game schedule starting in September, likely with no fans at first, so Canadian TV viewers may be able to get their fix. The CFL looks to be on hold until at least September as Canadian provinces have strict rules about mass gatherings in place. It’s believed the league would like to attempt to play a half-season, starting in September, but no one knows if that will be possible.

The good news for the CFL is that Canadian sports fans — at least those in Western Canada — will miss it considerably.

In Manitoba, 63% of ardent sports fans said they will be disappointed if there is no CFL season, while in Saskatchewan, where the Grey Cup is supposed to be held in November, the number was 61%. In Alberta and B.C., it was 45% and 34% but in Eastern Canada that number fell to 28% in Ontario, 31% in Quebec and 17% in Atlantic Canada.

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/hocke...pandemic-eases

[argolio]

NFL teams aren't allowed to be owned by a corporation. Who has 2 Billion USD to buy a franchise and build a Stadium? Governments aren't going to fund a NFL Stadium.

No kidding. That's why I said individuals. I think an owner or ownership group wouldn't be a problem if the NFL actively wanted a team in Toronto. A stadium would be a big stumbling block, but that hasn't stopped the NFL before. Better that this remains hypothetical so we never find out what would happen.

[1971GreyCup]

The first western European football match took place since Covid-19 yesterday on the Faroe Islands played behind closed doors. The Bundesliga is expected to return on May 16th behind closed doors.

[paulwoods13]

Yup. Which I believe the PA was part of the process so far. Now that many MPs are saying they need to be part of this, it opens the door.

We'll see the league and PA moving together on this now per there government's permission...ans framed as demand.

isn't one conspiracy theory enough for this thread?

[Mightygoose]

isn't one conspiracy theory enough for this thread?

It's a good as a conspiracy theory that the CFL is seeking government money and have no intention of paying the players.

Naylor has mentioned having a large part of the PA not being Canadians adds to the complexity of this request. Hence the MPs wanting them part of the process and hopefully they'll ask just a tough questions as they did Ambroise on Thursday. And I give the MPs credit for doing so.

[OV Argo]

Yeah giving Canadian tax dollars to Non-Canadians isn't going to fly.

What a can of worms a politician could open up by asking the CFL some serious questions. Just radical.

[paulwoods13]

It's a good as a conspiracy theory that the CFL is seeking government money and have no intention of paying the players.

Naylor has mentioned having a large part of the PA not being Canadians adds to the complexity of this request. Hence the MPs wanting them part of the process and hopefully they'll ask just a tough questions as they did Ambroise on Thursday. And I give the MPs credit for doing so.

It's one thing to give MPs credit for asking tough questions. It's another to suggest that the league, the PA and the govt are all in cahoots on this, and that part of the plan involved Ambrosie deliberately looking stupid in public.

[Mightygoose]

It's one thing to give MPs credit for asking tough questions. It's another to suggest that the league, the PA and the govt are all in cahoots on this, and that part of the plan involved Ambrosie deliberately looking stupid in public.

Not suggesting the 3 parties are in cahoots over this. The PA wasn't and couldn't be anyways.

Everyone needs to follow the government's lead including this public process. If something if worked out, the diner details will be worked out behind closed doors and all questions will be answered during that time. Definitely not during a 2 hour session shared with other organizations seeking funds too. With all reps having a limited amount of time to answer, I think Ambroise answered the best he could in that setting

When it's time to have a talk in greater detail, which they're asking for more questions will be answered.

[paulwoods13]

Not suggesting the 3 parties are in cahoots over this. The PA wasn't and couldn't be anyways.

So you are saying the CFL deliberately kept the PA outside the tent because bringing them in would have made it harder to win public or govt support, but also knew that having them outside the tent would ensure that the politicians would demand the PA be brought into the tent? That would constitute some very circuitous (and risky) strategizing.

[Mightygoose]

So you are saying the CFL deliberately kept the PA outside the tent because bringing them in would have made it harder to win public or govt support, but also knew that having them outside the tent would ensure that the politicians would demand the PA be brought into the tent? That would constitute some very circuitous (and risky) strategizing.

I believe...and these are my thoughts...getting federal tax dollars to go towards a group which has a large number of non-Canadians is a very hard sell. It's even a harder sell since the league don't have to pay them if there's no games being played under the current CBA. The PA would need to kept on the outside to start

The league started to speak with the government back on April 2. They would need to follow their lead on how to proceed, hence why I think having the government tell the league the players need to be involved is important. From here now all 3 parties can talk to see if something can be worked out. If the players don't get paid and the league won't get anything close to 150 million.

[Shatto]

Ambrosie's approach was an object lesson on how not to acquire government funding. No business plan detailing how the money would be used, no involvement of the players who most MP's see as the everyday workers, no seeking advice from those knowledgeable MP's who are known to be CFL supporters. I'm not sure if this was a result of Ambrosie's arrogance or naivety but he has to be smarter and do better or there will be no funds forthcoming.

[paulwoods13]

I believe...and these are my thoughts...getting federal tax dollars to go towards a group which has a large number of non-Canadians is a very hard sell. It's even a harder sell since the league don't have to pay them if there's no games being played under the current CBA. The PA would need to kept on the outside to start

The league started to speak with the government back on April 2. They would need to follow their lead on how to proceed, hence why I think having the government tell the league the players need to be involved is important. From here now all 3 parties can talk to see if something can be worked out. If the players don't get paid and the league won't get anything close to 150 million.

I'm not buying it. I actually do agree that there likely wouldn't be much public support for funnelling money to non-Canadian players, but that does not in any way explain why it was deemed necessary for the CFL to not discuss this at all with the PA before approaching the government. Doing so simply allowed the government (and the opposition parties, who have strong influence in a minority Parliament) to send the CFL packing. And since the CFL approached the govt on April 2, why did it seem to come as a surprise to Ambrosie that he was asked what the PA thought about this and whether players were going to get paid? Wouldn't the govt have said something if the CFL was "following their lead"? I'm also not buying that the three parties are now going to sit down and work something out. It's possible the CFL will be offered some amount of money, but I very much doubt the govt will place a priority on finding a solution acceptable to the league and the PA.

[Mightygoose]

I'm not buying it. I actually do agree that there likely wouldn't be much public support for funnelling money to non-Canadian players, but that does not in any way explain why it was deemed necessary for the CFL to not discuss this at all with the PA before approaching the government. Doing so simply allowed the government (and the opposition parties, who have strong influence in a minority Parliament) to send the CFL packing. And since the CFL approached the govt on April 2, why did it seem to come as a surprise to Ambrosie that he was asked what the PA thought about this and whether players were going to get paid? Wouldn't the govt have said something if the CFL was "following their lead"? I'm also not buying that the three parties are now going to sit down and work something out. It's possible the CFL will be offered some amount of money, but I very much doubt the govt will place a priority on finding a solution acceptable to the league and the PA.

Fair enough

At this time the government isn't sending the league packing. Yes, that could change any day. However, since many MPs are saying that they couldn't consider funding without the player's involvement a conversation will need to continue along with a more detailed business plan which wasn't going to be shared in a teleconference with limited time.

Actually, I'm not surprised by Ambroise's response on the question if the players are going to be paid. That needs to be negotiated with the players, it obviously wasn't done yet but the league had no control when they had to testify nor can force an agreement with the players to meet that date hence why I believe talks will continue.

[Argo57]

I'm not buying it. I actually do agree that there likely wouldn't be much public support for funnelling money to non-Canadian players, but that does not in any way explain why it was deemed necessary for the CFL to not discuss this at all with the PA before approaching the government. Doing so simply allowed the government (and the opposition parties, who have strong influence in a minority Parliament) to send the CFL packing. And since the CFL approached the govt on April 2, why did it seem to come as a surprise to Ambrosie that he was asked what the PA thought about this and whether players were going to get paid? Wouldn't the govt have said something if the CFL was "following their lead"? I'm also not buying that the three parties are now going to sit down and work something out. It's possible the CFL will be offered some amount of money, but I very much doubt the govt will place a priority on finding a solution acceptable to the league and the PA.

Amazing how Ambrosie and the league both mishandled this whole situation considering he was portrayed as a savvy business executive when he was hired by the CFL.

[OV Argo]

Amazing how Ambrosie and the league both mishandled this whole situation considering he was portrayed as a savvy business executive when he was hired by the CFL.

Been pretty obvious, to me anyhow, that Ambrosie is not right for the job - maybe other than being a good little boy who will do what the BOGs tell him. His "Global" idea was a farce/pipe-dream/ ego fuelled joke, IMO; and now this. But i guess as Commish he'e entitled to his view on how the CFL should work/ be run.

[jerrym]

Former Tiger Cat play-by-play man and current MP Bob Bratina says that Ambrosie has been approaching the government in the wrong way.

“So he did talk to me but wasn’t interested much in my advice as much as my support for his position that he presented to the finance committee,” Bratina told CHCH’s Bubba O’Neil. “I don’t think he had the best advice in approaching it by appearing in public on the finance committee and kind of pleading poor because most people think that the league owners are all rich, which many of them are. And what do you need from us?” ...

“So I think Mr. Ambrosie was under the direction of the governors, and that’s who hired him, and he was asked to do what he did by them. And that’s how it came out, but I don’t think it was very effective,” Bratina said. The CFL players were unaccounted for in terms of presence with Ambrosie and also in the financial ask from the Canadian government. That part didn’t seem to concern Bratina as much as other members of parliament. Instead, Bratina was focused on the CFL being viewed differently compared to major pro sports leagues in North America. “Professional sports like the Canadian Football League is not quite where I’m at because the CFL is very unique. The league has had its problems over the years, but Grey Cup, all of the things surrounding the league, visits to children’s hospitals by players, so I don’t think a one size fits all program would work for the CFL,” Bratina said. ...

“The CFL needs to be looked at in terms of nine teams times about 200 or 300 people, several thousand people affected including players, including fans, including all the great folks who do concessions, who clean up after — there’s so many people involved in a CFL game, times all of the cities.” Just like a veteran mentoring a rookie, if Ambrosie called, Bratina would be be open to helping the league with its pitch for financial aid. He’s been in the politics game for a long time and could provide a trusted sounding board. “They need to approach it in a different way,” Bratina said, “and I’d be glad to give them my suggestions if they wanted to ask.”

https://3downnation.com/2020/05/10/h...-in-my-advice/

[jerrym]

While CFLPA President Solomon Elimimian says it was a mistake for the CFL to not consult the players and include them in the CFL's presentation to the parliamentary standing committee on finance because the players in a lunch-bucket league are the ones that are most relatable to Canadians, CFLPA third vice president Ryan King had a somewhat different view.

“[Friday] was a very positive day. We heard from their whole side and we had a lot of time to speak about our issues as well. I think both sides now know, we knew all along, that this has to be a joint effort,” King told Reid Wilkins on 630 CHED radio in Edmonton. “When it comes to the dollar amount… just overall figures not as detailed or as clear as I think the government wanted to see. Once we can reface this funding situation collectively together, I think you’ll see a completely different approach.” ...

“If we can approach this properly, we will be able to get whatever funding is needed appropriately and we can collectively have a Canadian Football League in the future,” King said. “The government does support the CFL, we’re the only Canadian professional sports organization solely in Canada. I do now feel confident that our time will come with the government.” ...

“We’re a gate revenue run league, over 50 percent of it. Even just playing with no fans, we wouldn’t even break even and I think it’s important that people know that,” King said. “It might actually, legitimately be the right move not to have a season for a calendar year. But then you go into a lot more other issues of how do we sustain the CFL? And that’s another big part of where we are with the CFL, how we start the league back up when the time comes.”

https://3downnation.com/2020/05/09/c...nt-break-even/

[doubleblue]

Friday on the Rod Peterson Show, Rod and some of his guests were saying the CFL should stop asking th Canadian Government for money and go to the NFL. That 150 million the CFL needs would be about 5 mil per NFL team, or chicken feed for them.

The 2018 year income for the NFL shows they received about 15 Billion in TV rights. On top of that they have their ticket sales, licensing rights, corporate sponsorships etc. Gambling is the next big thing they will be getting a cut of.

Green Bay had a 2018 total income of 455 million. Dallas the richest team had according to Forbes, 864 Million

The NFL does not want to see the CFL go down, and I don't think they will stand by and let it happen. But, I'm still a little suspicious of the very public ask of 150 Million. They had to know the public backlash would be severe. I don't for one minute think Randy is flying by the seat of his pants making all the decisions

[Argo57]

Been pretty obvious, to me anyhow, that Ambrosie is not right for the job - maybe other than being a good little boy who will do what the BOGs tell him. His "Global" idea was a farce/pipe-dream/ ego fuelled joke, IMO; and now this. But i guess as Commish he'e entitled to his view on how the CFL should work/ be run.

I’m not a fan either OV.