CFL/XFL Collaboration

[OV Argo]

Anything that might increase revenue potential would be considered to have an upside, IMO. Whether any arrangement with the XFL would do that remains to be seen, but the league absolutely needs to search for ways to become profitable across all franchises, not just a few.

You said anything right? - so if clowns & strippers hawking beer in the stands, and The Rock hosting an extended half-time show featuring wrasslin' cage matches, plus converting to all American rules, was on the agenda for the CFL, you'd be good with that and buying tickets still ?

[carlos]

CFL was sleeping when they auctioned off the XFL assets. To think they could have had it all for under $20 million.

[doubleblue]

Judging by what's been written in this thread, this won't be a popular take. I think many (if not the vast majority of) fans do not realize just how dire the CFL's financial situation is. The current business model is broken, maybe irreparably. What the league (and let's be clear, Ambrosie is not doing this on his own) is doing is looking for a way to make the business sustainable. Whether they can find that through talks with the XFL remains to be seen, but at least they are looking. The alternative -- continue with the status quo -- will almost certainly result in the eventual death of the CFL, IMO.


As for not informing the players, while I fervently believe in the concept of co-operating with your partners, you also have to trust them to keep their mouths shut until you are ready to go public with something. I'm betting the league (again, not just Ambrosie) does not have such trust in the PA.

Sometimes I agree with PW and I have to say this is one of those times. And I might add I don't for a minute believe what Randy tries to implies, that they are just starting to talk with the XFL. I believe talks have been going on for quite a while.

[Wobbler]

The news is so vague that I find it hard to have an opinion of any kind.

[paulwoods13]

You said anything right? - so if clowns & strippers hawking beer in the stands, and The Rock hosting an extended half-time show featuring wrasslin' cage matches, plus converting to all American rules, was on the agenda for the CFL, you'd be good with that and buying tickets still ?

Your rants speak for themselves and need no help from me, OV.

[Will]

The news is so vague that I find it hard to have an opinion of any kind.

What Wobbler said.
Simply keep an open mind.

[OV Argo]

Your rants speak for themselves and need no help from me, OV.

Afraid to answer the question i see ?

Clowns and half-time rasslin' aside; simple question: if the CFL got absorbed by or combined with the XFL, and the deal was that the rules of the new league were mostly American football like, would you still be an Argo / XCFL fan and buy tickets to attend games or watch as much of the league on TV as you have in the past ? And after all, if the CFL is "just a business" like any other, and the bottom line is all that matters, surely you would support the new venture if it meant the Argos were a bit more profitable ?

[gilthethrill]

CFL was sleeping when they auctioned off the XFL assets. To think they could have had it all for under $20 million.

You do realize the CFL was dealing with monumental financial losses due to the cancellation of the 2020 season. Where were they going to find under $20 million for XFL assets? And why?

[argos1873]

CFL was sleeping when they auctioned off the XFL assets. To think they could have had it all for under $20 million.

What would they have done with their assets? Plus like someone mentioned, where would they get the money at this time?

Regardless, while I have both concern and slight optimism about such a deal between the CFL and a league that barely exists, the fact remains we know nothing about what an arrangement would even look like, since all we've been told is that the 2 entities were looking to engage in talks. So for now, everything is just pure speculation. People, not necessarily on this forum, have them already merged up and the CFL playing 4 downs. Good lord, it could be something as simple as partnering up on CFL 2.0 for global players or whatever. Who knows.

[paulwoods13]

Afraid to answer the question i see ?

Oh no, I have been exposed for the coward that I am. I might have known you would see right through me.

[doubleblue]

Afraid to answer the question i see ?

Clowns and half-time rasslin' aside; simple question: if the CFL got absorbed by or combined with the XFL, and the deal was that the rules of the new league were mostly American football like, would you still be an Argo / XCFL fan and buy tickets to attend games or watch as much of the league on TV as you have in the past ? And after all, if the CFL is "just a business" like any other, and the bottom line is all that matters, surely you would support the new venture if it meant the Argos were a bit more profitable ?

What a novel idea OV, half time rasslin. How about the Women's World Championship at BMO (they're always world championship's aren't they) at half time. The place would be rockin. I might have to find my old binoculars.

[Skinny G]

We agree with you Paul, that they need to look at finding increased revenue streams, and understand that the league is probably in very bad shape financially, however looking at this from both a fan of the league, but also from a business stand point (my brother and I are business analysts and have experience with retail, customer/service mgt, and sales/marketing), the handling of the announcement was absolutely terrible. Being the commissioner and someone with the corporate experience he has, he should recognize how important communication is.

Do we feel having a conversation with the XFL is a bad thing, absolutely not! Think it’s a smart idea. But not being somewhat more open and direct in messaging is the problem, because it leaves too much to speculation and a feeling that the league is begging for money, and will give up anything for it.

Some thoughts

• He just seems willing to sell out too quickly. Going to CFL 2.0 (which we think is a good initiative), who were originally going to lose the roster spots? Canadians! If there is a merger of sorts, what makes anyone think that Ambrosie wouldn’t sell out the Canadians again? No Canadians, 4-down football…don’t think that will help anything and may make things worse, and I know I’m not keeping season tickets for that!
• Referencing the Rock’s social media followers doesn’t guarantee anything, just because he has Twitter/Instagram followers doesn’t mean that all of a sudden stadiums will be packed and the world will rush to watch a game
• Being in such financial need, you would’ve thought he would have come to that review with the Finance Committee more organized and with clear information, and with the players, but we saw how that turned out.
• Look at the how a solid and real leadership model works over in the NBA. How much constant communication there is with Adam Silver and Chris Paul, and it was like that with David Stern as well.
• If they do some sort of merger, that would cost the CFL Teams quite a bit more, as they would have to pay in US Dollars, and may be forced to pay higher salaries than they do now
• The XFL did not have a players union, how would the CFLPA take that?
• If he wants to engage with more youth, it’s surprising to hear that he (as the commissioner of the league) and the CFL only became an associate member with Football Canada in 2020
• Look at the amount of effort that Jim Mullin is putting in to help grow the game, align football, try to help sell the game, and market, etc. Where is the league here to help this, shouldn't they recognize that supporting this only helps the CFL as well?
• We sent a bunch of suggestions to the Argos leadership in the past, on how to engage more youth (some of which they’ve used). Basically, there is a lot that can be done and hasn’t been done yet by the league to get those youth out. If we want a model, use the Raptors before they were popular, and you’ll know what we’re talking about.

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[Skinny G]

Can good come out of this? Sure! Here are some suggestions (and others have made similar ones)

• Maybe the XFL joins the CFL 2.0 initiative with XFL as a larger player or co-lead with the CFL? Therefore partners in Canada, US, Mexico, and around the world!
• Playing/Selling games in Europe and other parts of the world, similar to NFL to generate revenue and more hype and support for the leagues
• Align scheduling somehow to be able to sell the TV/streaming rights. Currently the XFL would go against College Basketball and into NHL and NBA Playoffs potentially. Couldn’t have the games between Feb to Apr in Canada.
• Selling a combined product for TV/streaming rights (DAZN, etc) – can either sell a CFL/XFL product, or a CFL 2.0 deal
• Marketing partnerships and shared resources
• Selling the Game together, maybe doing a “Pro Bowl”/All Star game for charity to promote both leagues. This might be cool from a brand marketing standpoint
• Support a Video Game (let’s still not forget that the CFL has not yet been willing to support the Maximum Football where they could have already had a game)

The other aspect that may a big part of the discussion is betting. I don’t know if the CFL is worried that the Canadian legislation might not pass, or if they are seeing if they can leverage the XFL’s in game betting system for international betting. If they can somehow leverage this to generate revenues for both leagues, that would be a win win, and add in the Canadian betting, and that would have a huge positive financial impact to the league.
So can there be a positive partnership between the CFL/XFL, of course there can, but “selling their soul” could put the league in an even worse position then they are in today.

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[OV Argo]

MLSE = net worth of a billion buck$ plus ?

[carlos]

You do realize the CFL was dealing with monumental financial losses due to the cancellation of the 2020 season. Where were they going to find under $20 million for XFL assets? And why?

That's the beauty of a private corporation. Annual estimated revenues prior to 2020 were $200 million per. CFO is out to lunch if required financing could not be obtained. Never before has it ever occurred to me that the CFL is a business more than at the present. All they really want is your money.

[paulwoods13]

That's the beauty of a private corporation. Annual estimated revenues prior to 2020 were $200 million per. CFO is out to lunch if required financing could not be obtained. Never before has it ever occurred to me that the CFL is a business more than at the present. All they really want is your money.

It is not a private corporation. It is nine separate businesses, with an association structure. The CFL did not have $200M in revenues. The nine teams combined might have, but they are separate entities. And further complicating things is the fact there are three distinct ownership structures: widely held public, individual owners and conglomerate owners. The notion that they could (or should) have pooled resources to buy XFL assets seems both fanciful and beside the point, does it not?

[Skinny G]

Here is what Jim Mullins (someone who CLEARLY loves our game and our league!) posted last night about this - https://twitter.com/Jim_MullinTSN

Here are some personal thoughts from someone on the front lines of amateur football in Canada after the news broke yesterday regarding the CFL and XFL discussing possible alignment paths. /1

Canadian Football was my gateway into football and remained the vehicle to why I, along with legions of fans, coaches, officials, volunteers and media across Canada, dedicate their time, energy and passion to building the game./2

Today, football is much more than the 12-man game in our country. It is 6-man for kids and small towns. It is flag for beginners and Team Canada at World Championships. It is our world junior team winning back-to-back gold medals playing American Football. /3

For some, contributing to something uniquely Canadian can be more significant than the sport itself. Our Canadian game is just that; it’s ours. It does not belong to a league, a conference or an association. It's a set of values we share that sustain us as an unlikely nation. /4

In a country that asks so little of us to be Canadian, football demands our better self; To make disparate parts work in unison, with a dedication to the community and a focus on resourcefulness. /5

The CFL has decisions to make as a league to set it on a sustainable pathway as a business instead of remaining a philanthropic institution. However, alignment within the sport in Canada needs to remain a primary objective. /6

Cities, municipalities, schools and universities have installed infrastructure specific to our game. The league cannot radically alter their game in isolation without adverse effects on our sport. /7

Let’s move forward with confidence in what we’ve developed in over 150 years of Canadian football. Let’s dialogue with those globally who respect what we’ve achieved in our sport. And, if a visiting team wants a game here, stand proud & invite them to play our game. #playourgame

[Skinny G]

Clearly Bob Young is one of the leads behind this whole merger, and doesn't care about the Canadian Game & CFL as much as he likes to say he is.
Via CFL_New Twitter/Fan 590. - https://twitter.com/CFL_News

@CaretakerBob

- "100 years ago you weren't allowed to pass the ball forward. Our rules do keep changing. As long as they change for the better our fans will follow us. If they change for the worse, they won't follow us." #CFL #XFL #Ticats via @FAN590

[ArgoGabe22]

"100 years ago you weren't allowed to pass the ball forward. Our rules do keep changing. As long as they change for the better our fans will follow us. If they change for the worse, they won't follow us." #CFL #XFL #Ticats via @FAN590

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Minor tweaks are fine like OT, converts etc. but is the wider field, 12 players, 3 downs really an issue that needs tweaking?

[paulwoods13]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Minor tweaks are fine like OT, converts etc. but is the wider field, 12 players, 3 downs really an issue that needs tweaking?

The game could be perfect, but if the audience keeps dwindling it eventually won't matter -- there will be no game to celebrate.

And as I've argued here and elsewhere, there are things in the CFL rulebook that have made the game less entertaining than it used to be. Twelve men, three downs and field size aren't on that list, but neither should they be sacred cows. "If it ain't broken" doesn't apply IMO -- the biz model that underpins the game itself is in fact broken.