CFL/XFL Collaboration

[argolio]

Conspiracy theory:

MLSE and especially Larrry NFL wannabe Tannebaum are still really craving a "Major League" NFL franchise......

Can't say this hasn't crossed my mind in the last few days.

My optimistic side says this will be mostly a marketing deal, maybe allowing both leagues to share young, developing players.

My skeptical side says this will be a partial or full merger, and we'll lose some or most of our rules.

My cynical side says this is a long-term play to get an NFL team in Toronto.

[Shatto]

No one has yet been able to outline how this endeavour will financially benefit the CFL, other stating some ambiguous generalities about the XFL having some rich owners. Even their wealthiest aren't quite in the same financial league as MLSE/Rogers/Bell. Rogers alone can afford to cough up 26B to buy Shaw. But, if for arguments sake we accept that Redbird (4B) and The Rock (400m) are rich, why does anyone think they will be willing to donate funds to help the CFL? Unless there is an ulterior motive at work.

This resembles in some ways, the disastrous expansion to the States a few decades ago. We can all remember (if old enough) the great enthusiasm that went with that endeavour. Many so called league experts hailed it as a financial saviour of the league. Instead it turned out to be a terrible failure. Unfortunately, those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. It looks as if there is a chance that we are about to repeat history, if we are not careful.

Perhaps, there are some potential benefits to be explored, such as some form of collaboration in player movement between the leagues but let's not be naïve and go into some type of arrangement that could have severe negative consequences for our league. The CFL may believe it could have something to gain from this endeavour but the league should be fully aware that it also could lose much more that it gains.

[OV Argo]

No one has yet been able to outline how this endeavour will financially benefit the CFL, other stating some ambiguous generalities about the XFL having some rich owners. Even their wealthiest aren't quite in the same financial league as MLSE/Rogers/Bell. Rogers alone can afford to cough up 26B to buy Shaw. But, if for arguments sake we accept that Redbird (4B) and The Rock (400m) are rich, why does anyone think they will be willing to donate funds to help the CFL? Unless there is an ulterior motive at work.

This resembles in some ways, the disastrous expansion to the States a few decades ago. We can all remember (if old enough) the great enthusiasm that went with that endeavour. Many so called league experts hailed it as a financial saviour of the league. Instead it turned out to be a terrible failure. Unfortunately, those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. It looks as if there is a chance that we are about to repeat history, if we are not careful.

Perhaps, there are some potential benefits to be explored, such as some form of collaboration in player movement between the leagues but let's not be naïve and go into some type of arrangement that could have severe negative consequences for our league. The CFL may believe it could have something to gain from this endeavour but the league should be fully aware that it also could lose much more that it gains.

Good post !

Desperate times call for desperate CFL measures - and the current clique of CFL "leaders" may have no clue there; exploring some potential benefits and resource sharing with the XFL or whoever is one thing; selling Canadian football down the river is another.

[paulwoods13]

This resembles in some ways, the disastrous expansion to the States a few decades ago. We can all remember (if old enough) the great enthusiasm that went with that endeavour. Many so called league experts hailed it as a financial saviour of the league. Instead it turned out to be a terrible failure.

It was a failure in many ways, but without it, I doubt the league would still be here. The expansion money was needed desperately. Even after expansion ended, the league was teetering on the brink -- it had to get a sponsor to pay the players on the Eskimos and Argos their Grey Cup bonuses, IIRC. IMO the U.S. "experiment" should be remembered as a big factor in the league continuing to exist.

[carlos]

I can see the ratio going if anything were to come of the discussions but don't fear the demise of Canadian players because of it. The grass roots of football in Canada is not supported by the CFL who focus on Canadians developing in American schools. More ex players given work in coaching would be a start.

Could also see digital currency as the answer to the dollar problem and there might even be interest from Bitcoin or whoever in working with the league on that.

[AngeloV]

I still don't expect there to be a merger between the 2 leagues, but hypothetically, I say keep the ratio rules. For American team make it so that they need to have 20 players (minimum 7 starters) from the State the team plays in to be their non import players. Be it born in the State, or played college ball in the State.

[Shatto]

An excellent suggestion Angelo. Not sure if the XFL would go along with that rule but it would certainly be worth trying to make a the conditions for signing an agreement.

[carlos]

I still don't expect there to be a merger between the 2 leagues, but hypothetically, I say keep the ratio rules. For American team make it so that they need to have 20 players (minimum 7 starters) from the State the team plays in to be their non import players. Be it born in the State, or played college ball in the State.

That's a clever twist and one that would be sure to sell tickets.

[gilthethrill]

That's a clever twist and one that would be sure to sell tickets.

I am pretty sure that “twist” has been tried before in failed US football leagues.

[OV Argo]

I am pretty sure that “twist” has been tried before in failed US football leagues.

I wondered why - way back - what AV is suggesting was not tried by the CFL for their US expansion teams? A regional component to a US team roster like CFL teams have a ratio to make sure Canadian players get some shots.

Makes good sense IMO, but heard that US labour laws would be sticky with law-suits a fear ?

[ArgoZ]

I wondered why - way back - what AV is suggesting was not tried by the CFL for their US expansion teams? A regional component to a US team roster like CFL teams have a ratio to make sure Canadian players get some shots.

Makes good sense IMO, but heard that US labour laws would be sticky with law-suits a fear ?

Problems arise when someone’s residence is on the other side of the street defining boundary. You can’t discriminate and prevent someone’s job opportunity under those conditions. States are so independently controlled, they might be able to do it by State residence or College, and even then, there are many States with more football players than all of Canada. The numbers can be staggering. Look at this graph of college teams per state.

1	Pennsylvania	52
2	Ohio	41
3	Texas	37
4	New York	31
5	North Carolina	31
6	Massachusetts	29
7	Illinois	28
8	Minnesota	25
9	Virginia	24
10	California	22

[carlos]

John Hodge reporting;

"CFL players got 52 per cent of league revenue in 1976. Today, they receive approximately 25 per cent. For comparison, NFL players will receive 48 per cent of league revenue in 2021, while NHL and NBA players get 50 per cent.Taking inflation into account, the CFL’s annual revenue has quadrupled since 1976 and the value of its television contract has increased by 700 per cent. Meanwhile, player costs have only increased by a little over 50 per cent."

Why does the CFL continue to ignore the numbers? The money fans pay to watch the players pay does not make it to the players. More of a collective agreement issue which is coming up soon and does not look good imo.

Is the plan to break the union?

[argos1873]

John Hodge reporting;

"CFL players got 52 per cent of league revenue in 1976. Today, they receive approximately 25 per cent. For comparison, NFL players will receive 48 per cent of league revenue in 2021, while NHL and NBA players get 50 per cent.Taking inflation into account, the CFL’s annual revenue has quadrupled since 1976 and the value of its television contract has increased by 700 per cent. Meanwhile, player costs have only increased by a little over 50 per cent."

Why does the CFL continue to ignore the numbers? The money fans pay to watch the players pay does not make it to the players. More of a collective agreement issue which is coming up soon and does not look good imo.

Is the plan to break the union?

I wonder if its an "economies of scale" issue? For example, CFL teams will still have many of the expenses of the bigger leagues, such as travel, facilities etc (yes I know they don't have as good a travel or facilities available, but you can only go so low), while the revenues are much much lower. Therefore maybe a higher percentage of revenues is required, just to at least have a production that is some what "major league". Just a thought.

[OV Argo]

Anyhow - all this discussion and opinion - in the media and amongst CFL "fans" is continuing to provide the CFL at least some publicity or interest in a time of need.

Fascinating to me to see many all in on this potential new CFL/XFL venture: fawning all over ways to $uck-up to American rules (4 downs, smaller field, 11 men, no rouge, etc.) or a better schedule; and others rubbing their hands with glee in the anticipation of Canadian players getting turfed-out of a new XCFL ?

All for CFL survival and a new "business model" - good luck there.

[dmont]

I'm not usually a big podcast guy, but this was a great episode about the CFL/XFL talks:

https://twitter.com/CFL_Headlines/st...716213251?s=19

[Stevoman]

I really want more details before I decide how I feel about this but if there were a merger, I would not want to lose the Canadian rules. The U.S. teams could have a smaller field and when they play in Canada they will have to adjust and vice versa. I don't know how I feel about the ratio but I didn't like the way it was handled back in the 90's.

I just want the Argos to have a future but I want it to be in a league that I recognize.

[Shatto]

Some feel strongly there should be some form of collaboration between the CFL and XFL. Here is a suggestion --why not have the XFL as a feeder organization for the CFL. Drop the global experiment and instead guarantee each CFL team will place 2 of the XFL players from the spring schedule on their roster for the same year. It will allow those players to double their income that year and allow them to play in an established league.

Yes---- it is a tongue-in-cheek suggestion but makes as much sense as some of the other collaboration suggestions!

[OV Argo]

Some feel strongly there should be some form of collaboration between the CFL and XFL. Here is a suggestion --why not have the XFL as a feeder organization for the CFL. Drop the global experiment and instead guarantee each CFL team will place 2 of the XFL players from the spring schedule on their roster for the same year. It will allow those players to double their income that year and allow them to play in an established league.

Yes---- it is a tongue-in-cheek suggestion but makes as much sense as some of the other collaboration suggestions!

Makes way more sense to me.

[Mocha]

I think the best type of collaboration would be maintaining two separate leagues playing two separate non-overlapping schedules, but allow players to play in both. They could possibly even have team partnerships, with each CFL team sharing staff and players with one XFL team, though this would be complicated to arrange, given there likely won't be 9 XFL teams to begin with and the league's chances of surviving more than a season or two are probably quite low.

The downside to sharing players is that the CFL would lose some players to injury, but I think that risk would be acceptable to allow players to bolster their income.

The two leagues could co-organize (and share the expenses of) combines and international scouting.

Whatever the CFL decides to do, I hope they have closely studied that history of failure of non-NFL leagues in the US and are prepared with an exit strategy for when this latest attempt also fails.

[AngeloV]

Whatever the CFL decides to do, I hope they have closely studied that history of failure of non-NFL leagues in the US and are prepared with an exit strategy for when this latest attempt also fails.

Bingo.

I am still holding out hope that the league is only doing this as a publicity stunt and saner heads prevail. If there is a merger, the CFL better reserve the right to pull out at any time.