CFL/XFL Collaboration

[paulwoods13]

The CFL needs to create a football infrastructure. If you can't realize that building from the ground up is key to the growth of any BUSINESS... then, this is the issue. People don't know business. Mullins came out and said that Ambrosie brushed him off since clearly he only cared about the XFL talks, what does that say? Plus, if Ambrosie didn't burn bridges, why would they have to put out a public statement on the matter instead of having direct conversations with the CFL.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/cfl/article...al-components/

Also, it's been called out that the CFL has let the NFL take over programs like flag football in areas of the country (instead of even partnering with the NFL). Well if the CFL is not connected with these institutions, it's funny when people ask why kids don't care about the CFL. Yet, go do some research on the work the Football Canada is doing, and the fact that the CFL isn't really involved with them, you would recognize the missed opportunities they have... you know... to market to new fans...

Another example, the CFL wasn't part of the Ontario Mega Clinic... oh, what area do they need to desperately grow in again? Toronto. But where were they?

So to think that working with USports, Junior Football, and Football Canada has no impact to the growth of the CFL brand and business, would show the lack of business knowledge out there. Heck, the CFL even said themselves, that they recognize the impact of grass roots football and how critical it is to the game and to the league.

So now that the CFL has burned those bridges, I guess Football Canada et al will . . . withhold funding from the CFL? Stop taking the CFL's calls?

Sure, grassroots football is important to the sport. But the CFL is in a whole other stratosphere as a business than Football Canada, Jr Football and CIS. The idea that the CFL's salvation requires a better relationship with amateur football orgs does not seem to reflect the type of business knowledge of which you speak.

[Skinny G]

So now that the CFL has burned those bridges, I guess Football Canada et al will . . . withhold funding from the CFL? Stop taking the CFL's calls?

Sure, grassroots football is important to the sport. But the CFL is in a whole other stratosphere as a business than Football Canada, Jr Football and CIS. The idea that the CFL's salvation requires a better relationship with amateur football orgs does not seem to reflect the type of business knowledge of which you speak.

Based on your "sound business logic" the CFL doesn't then need or want any young fans, and does not want to market to what would be considered a potential base target market, right? I guess the league doesn't want those younger and more diversified fans that are already involved in football right? I guess they don't want an easy win, as a starting point. Maybe by your logic, they don't need new fans at all... because they are in a "whole other stratosphere" and are not desperate to widen and increase their fan base. So I guess, we may as well let the NFL take them!

I guess based on your logic, they shouldn't follow other internationally successful leagues like the NBA and NFL, and they should not care about youth that are already playing their sport and developing them into life long fans through partnerships with Football Canada and others.

Makes total business sense to me!

[Wobbler]

The league will have plenty of work to do reminding people of its existence and convincing half-hearted fans to attend despite the minor inconveniences they'll face in stadiums.

I'm not aware of any burnt bridges, though.

[paulwoods13]

Based on your "sound business logic" the CFL doesn't then need or want any young fans, and does not want to market to what would be considered a potential base target market, right? I guess the league doesn't want those younger and more diversified fans that are already involved in football right? I guess they don't want an easy win, as a starting point. Maybe by your logic, they don't need new fans at all... because they are in a "whole other stratosphere" and are not desperate to widen and increase their fan base. So I guess, we may as well let the NFL take them!

I guess based on your logic, they shouldn't follow other internationally successful leagues like the NBA and NFL, and they should not care about youth that are already playing their sport and developing them into life long fans through partnerships with Football Canada and others.

Makes total business sense to me!

You are welcome to interpret my comments any way you like, but I was specifically responding to the notion that the CFL has "burnt bridges" with other football groups, and that this is somehow damaging to its prospects of business success. If it was thriving before it burnt the bridges, and was now failing, I suppose such a case could be made. And I guess if what you are suggesting is true, the bridges must have been burned long before the XFL came into the picture.

[Skinny G]

The league will have plenty of work to do reminding people of its existence and convincing half-hearted fans to attend despite the minor inconveniences they'll face in stadiums.

I'm not aware of any burnt bridges, though.

Agree with you, that they definitely have tons of work to do!

In terms of burnt bridges, what I meant more was it shows that relationships have been fractured more than likely causing a lack of trust and potential loss of good will. Can bridges be built up again, of course they can. But has this whole situation impacted these relationships? IMO I'd say so, especially based on how the joint letter was released, as well as from Jim Mullin's interview which was posted in this thread before. That being said, Ambrosie should get back to rebuilding any and all affected relationships. When it comes to the league working with Football Canada (and others), having synergies with these groups will of course benefit both sides.

Personally also feel that this whole CFL/XFL thing may have impacted relations with NFL, looking at the sharp change when it comes to holding more games outside of the US, in regions where CFL had originally created plans to grow their brand via partnerships with respective leagues.

[Skinny G]

You are welcome to interpret my comments any way you like, but I was specifically responding to the notion that the CFL has "burnt bridges" with other football groups, and that this is somehow damaging to its prospects of business success. If it was thriving before it burnt the bridges, and was now failing, I suppose such a case could be made. And I guess if what you are suggesting is true, the bridges must have been burned long before the XFL came into the picture.

The "burnt bridges" or as explained above - fractured relationships does has the potential to impact the business. How much? Who knows? But it has been called out time and time again, and the league needs to bring in younger fans and fans of diverse backgrounds. So to think that damaging relationships with the various football groups which have that direct ability to engage and market to these younger fans has no benefit to the league is interesting. It's not to say it's the end all be all, but it's obvious that working together is good for the league, and if you're going to start somewhere (since the league essentially wasted a year with barely any focus on marketing, fan engagement, etc.), then you should start with what would be considered a core target market. To be able to start that, the league has to reestablish trust, but I see someone with the integrity of Jim Mullin putting it all aside for the good of the game. This is just the beginning of the rebuilding and growing process for the league, and collaboration with these groups should be an easy if handled with common sense.

[Argo57]

I believe we have Paul. I truly believe the CFL was using the XFL here and never intended on a merger of any type. As I have said earlier in this thread, I never believed this would happen. The schedules don't line up. XFL will not play opposite of the NFL, and the CFL would be ABSOLUTELY STUPID to start play a significant part of their season opposite the Stanley Cup playoffs. Add to that how do you merge a league with a single ownership entity vs one with each team having separate owners? It never made sense to me from the get go.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the XFL never starts up again.

Let the CFL sink or swim on its own, hopefully the recently passed single game betting bill will open up a new revenue stream for the league.
Much needs to be cleaned up in regards to how the league operates moving forward, I personally had no interest in seeing the CFL merge with the XFL so I’m glad this is over and done with.

[gilthethrill]

Let the CFL sink or swim on its own, hopefully the recently passed single game betting bill will open up a new revenue stream for the league.
Much needs to be cleaned up in regards to how the league operates moving forward, I personally had no interest in seeing the CFL merge with the XFL so I’m glad this is over and done with.

Not a Seattle Dragons fan I gather?

[AngeloV]

Not a Seattle Dragons fan I gather?

When did they relocate from Barcelona?

[Topshelf]

The XFL was a bad idea, but the fallout mentioned in the Star today should be concerning. If MLSE cant make the argos work, noone can.
As it stands, the NFL is simply impossible to compete with. So in Toronto, the Argos are on par with the Marlies. The best way to save the CFL is just go full minor league. Cut salaries, focus on primarily Canadian players, set it up so your break even is a gate of 10,000 fans.
I don't think you'll notice a huge drop off in the on field product, and it may even allow a team in Halifax, London, Quebec City, etc to be economically feasible.

[AngeloV]

The XFL was a bad idea, but the fallout mentioned in the Star today should be concerning. If MLSE cant make the argos work, noone can.
As it stands, the NFL is simply impossible to compete with. So in Toronto, the Argos are on par with the Marlies. The best way to save the CFL is just go full minor league. Cut salaries, focus on primarily Canadian players, set it up so your break even is a gate of 10,000 fans.
I don't think you'll notice a huge drop off in the on field product, and it may even allow a team in Halifax, London, Quebec City, etc to be economically feasible.

How about trying to seriously market individual players and make them stars? To me, it's no coincidence that JWJ was all over the media the week of the 2017 Eastern final. He was interviewed during a Leafs game, and a Raptors game, was on BT, and other TV news shows, and they had 25k in the stands for that game. Yes it was a playoff game, but they created buzz, by giving the average people in the city someone to recognize. They need to do this throughout the season and make individual platers recognizable in the city.

Also, would it kill MLSE to add $200 or $300 to the price of a Leafs lower bowl season ticket and give that ticket holder an Argos season ticket? Would they really even notice the price jumping from $8,000 to $8.200 or $8,300? They have propped up the Marlies that way over the years.

[argolio]

Also, would it kill MLSE to add $200 or $300 to the price of a Leafs lower bowl season ticket and give that ticket holder an Argos season ticket? Would they really even notice the price jumping from $8,000 to $8.200 or $8,300? They have propped up the Marlies that way over the years.

Soak the platinum rich -- I'm all for that!

[Topshelf]

How about trying to seriously market individual players and make them stars? To me, it's no coincidence that JWJ was all over the media the week of the 2017 Eastern final. He was interviewed during a Leafs game, and a Raptors game, was on BT, and other TV news shows, and they had 25k in the stands for that game. Yes it was a playoff game, but they created buzz, by giving the average people in the city someone to recognize. They need to do this throughout the season and make individual platers recognizable in the city.

Also, would it kill MLSE to add $200 or $300 to the price of a Leafs lower bowl season ticket and give that ticket holder an Argos season ticket? Would they really even notice the price jumping from $8,000 to $8.200 or $8,300? They have propped up the Marlies that way over the years.

The Eastern final also had a lot of giveaways. I was there in a free seat.
I agree they need some marketable players. The last player to truly generate a buzz was Rickey Williams. I wrote a long reply and then realized i was on an off topic tangent about Argos marketing.
For the XFL, the issue is in BC, Toronto and Montreal, the league is dying. Maybe that wouldve created some kinda energy, but we never even heard the plan. It couldve been as simple as shared centralized scouting and preseason camps in the states. Everyone reached and assumed the Sacramento Miners were coming back.
As it stands, the CFL cant survive. So something will have to be figured out in next 10 years.

[AngeloV]

Well, apparently since one person was in a free seat, they had a lot of giveaways. Whatever. Who cares about the XFL anyways. 35 years of “the CFL can’t survive” and guess what? They start up again in 26 days.