CFL/XFL Collaboration

[paulwoods13]

You said anything right? - so if clowns & strippers hawking beer in the stands, and The Rock hosting an extended half-time show featuring wrasslin' cage matches, plus converting to all American rules, was on the agenda for the CFL, you'd be good with that and buying tickets still ?

Your rants speak for themselves and need no help from me, OV.

[OV Argo]

Your rants speak for themselves and need no help from me, OV.

Afraid to answer the question i see ?

Clowns and half-time rasslin' aside; simple question: if the CFL got absorbed by or combined with the XFL, and the deal was that the rules of the new league were mostly American football like, would you still be an Argo / XCFL fan and buy tickets to attend games or watch as much of the league on TV as you have in the past ? And after all, if the CFL is "just a business" like any other, and the bottom line is all that matters, surely you would support the new venture if it meant the Argos were a bit more profitable ?

[paulwoods13]

Afraid to answer the question i see ?

Oh no, I have been exposed for the coward that I am. I might have known you would see right through me.

[doubleblue]

Afraid to answer the question i see ?

Clowns and half-time rasslin' aside; simple question: if the CFL got absorbed by or combined with the XFL, and the deal was that the rules of the new league were mostly American football like, would you still be an Argo / XCFL fan and buy tickets to attend games or watch as much of the league on TV as you have in the past ? And after all, if the CFL is "just a business" like any other, and the bottom line is all that matters, surely you would support the new venture if it meant the Argos were a bit more profitable ?

What a novel idea OV, half time rasslin. How about the Women's World Championship at BMO (they're always world championship's aren't they) at half time. The place would be rockin. I might have to find my old binoculars.

[carlos]

CFL was sleeping when they auctioned off the XFL assets. To think they could have had it all for under $20 million.

[gilthethrill]

CFL was sleeping when they auctioned off the XFL assets. To think they could have had it all for under $20 million.

You do realize the CFL was dealing with monumental financial losses due to the cancellation of the 2020 season. Where were they going to find under $20 million for XFL assets? And why?

[carlos]

You do realize the CFL was dealing with monumental financial losses due to the cancellation of the 2020 season. Where were they going to find under $20 million for XFL assets? And why?

That's the beauty of a private corporation. Annual estimated revenues prior to 2020 were $200 million per. CFO is out to lunch if required financing could not be obtained. Never before has it ever occurred to me that the CFL is a business more than at the present. All they really want is your money.

[paulwoods13]

That's the beauty of a private corporation. Annual estimated revenues prior to 2020 were $200 million per. CFO is out to lunch if required financing could not be obtained. Never before has it ever occurred to me that the CFL is a business more than at the present. All they really want is your money.

It is not a private corporation. It is nine separate businesses, with an association structure. The CFL did not have $200M in revenues. The nine teams combined might have, but they are separate entities. And further complicating things is the fact there are three distinct ownership structures: widely held public, individual owners and conglomerate owners. The notion that they could (or should) have pooled resources to buy XFL assets seems both fanciful and beside the point, does it not?

[argos1873]

CFL was sleeping when they auctioned off the XFL assets. To think they could have had it all for under $20 million.

What would they have done with their assets? Plus like someone mentioned, where would they get the money at this time?

Regardless, while I have both concern and slight optimism about such a deal between the CFL and a league that barely exists, the fact remains we know nothing about what an arrangement would even look like, since all we've been told is that the 2 entities were looking to engage in talks. So for now, everything is just pure speculation. People, not necessarily on this forum, have them already merged up and the CFL playing 4 downs. Good lord, it could be something as simple as partnering up on CFL 2.0 for global players or whatever. Who knows.

[Wobbler]

The news is so vague that I find it hard to have an opinion of any kind.

[Will]

The news is so vague that I find it hard to have an opinion of any kind.

What Wobbler said.
Simply keep an open mind.

[Skinny G]

We agree with you Paul, that they need to look at finding increased revenue streams, and understand that the league is probably in very bad shape financially, however looking at this from both a fan of the league, but also from a business stand point (my brother and I are business analysts and have experience with retail, customer/service mgt, and sales/marketing), the handling of the announcement was absolutely terrible. Being the commissioner and someone with the corporate experience he has, he should recognize how important communication is.

Do we feel having a conversation with the XFL is a bad thing, absolutely not! Think it’s a smart idea. But not being somewhat more open and direct in messaging is the problem, because it leaves too much to speculation and a feeling that the league is begging for money, and will give up anything for it.

Some thoughts

• He just seems willing to sell out too quickly. Going to CFL 2.0 (which we think is a good initiative), who were originally going to lose the roster spots? Canadians! If there is a merger of sorts, what makes anyone think that Ambrosie wouldn’t sell out the Canadians again? No Canadians, 4-down football…don’t think that will help anything and may make things worse, and I know I’m not keeping season tickets for that!
• Referencing the Rock’s social media followers doesn’t guarantee anything, just because he has Twitter/Instagram followers doesn’t mean that all of a sudden stadiums will be packed and the world will rush to watch a game
• Being in such financial need, you would’ve thought he would have come to that review with the Finance Committee more organized and with clear information, and with the players, but we saw how that turned out.
• Look at the how a solid and real leadership model works over in the NBA. How much constant communication there is with Adam Silver and Chris Paul, and it was like that with David Stern as well.
• If they do some sort of merger, that would cost the CFL Teams quite a bit more, as they would have to pay in US Dollars, and may be forced to pay higher salaries than they do now
• The XFL did not have a players union, how would the CFLPA take that?
• If he wants to engage with more youth, it’s surprising to hear that he (as the commissioner of the league) and the CFL only became an associate member with Football Canada in 2020
• Look at the amount of effort that Jim Mullin is putting in to help grow the game, align football, try to help sell the game, and market, etc. Where is the league here to help this, shouldn't they recognize that supporting this only helps the CFL as well?
• We sent a bunch of suggestions to the Argos leadership in the past, on how to engage more youth (some of which they’ve used). Basically, there is a lot that can be done and hasn’t been done yet by the league to get those youth out. If we want a model, use the Raptors before they were popular, and you’ll know what we’re talking about.

1/2

[Skinny G]

Can good come out of this? Sure! Here are some suggestions (and others have made similar ones)

• Maybe the XFL joins the CFL 2.0 initiative with XFL as a larger player or co-lead with the CFL? Therefore partners in Canada, US, Mexico, and around the world!
• Playing/Selling games in Europe and other parts of the world, similar to NFL to generate revenue and more hype and support for the leagues
• Align scheduling somehow to be able to sell the TV/streaming rights. Currently the XFL would go against College Basketball and into NHL and NBA Playoffs potentially. Couldn’t have the games between Feb to Apr in Canada.
• Selling a combined product for TV/streaming rights (DAZN, etc) – can either sell a CFL/XFL product, or a CFL 2.0 deal
• Marketing partnerships and shared resources
• Selling the Game together, maybe doing a “Pro Bowl”/All Star game for charity to promote both leagues. This might be cool from a brand marketing standpoint
• Support a Video Game (let’s still not forget that the CFL has not yet been willing to support the Maximum Football where they could have already had a game)

The other aspect that may a big part of the discussion is betting. I don’t know if the CFL is worried that the Canadian legislation might not pass, or if they are seeing if they can leverage the XFL’s in game betting system for international betting. If they can somehow leverage this to generate revenues for both leagues, that would be a win win, and add in the Canadian betting, and that would have a huge positive financial impact to the league.
So can there be a positive partnership between the CFL/XFL, of course there can, but “selling their soul” could put the league in an even worse position then they are in today.

2/2

[OV Argo]

MLSE = net worth of a billion buck$ plus ?

[Skinny G]

MLSE = net worth of a billion buck$ plus ?

Net Worth - MLSE

- Probably around $5-6 Billion (2.5 Billion for Raptors, 1.5/1.8 for Leafs, + Real Estate and other ventures)
- Add Bell Media - Net Assets $60 Billion, Rogers - Net Assets $30 Billion, Kilmer Group (Tannenbaum) - $2 Billion

Networth XFL
- Rebird (Gerry Cardinale) - $4 Billion US
- Dany Garcia - $20 Million US
- The Rock - $400 Million US

Went through the Redbird investment advisor profiles, this people look like they will be there with Cardinale - Andy Gordon, Nicole Musicco, Alec Scheiner, Mike Zabik, Niraj Shah, Isaac Halyard, Michael Kaplan, Brent Stehlik

Here's Cardinale's Profile
https://www.redbirdcap.com/people/#member-406-info

Other Profiles
https://www.redbirdcap.com/people/

Redbird has also recently taken a sports acquisition company public. From the article "SPAC companies are generally used to raise money, which is stored in escrow for two years, while officials seek to acquire distressed or companies for sale."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/priv...ny-public.html

Let's think about another Canadian (now American/Brazilian) company that was purchased by a private equity firm - Tim Hortons. It's all about money to those firms, and nothing more.

I'll say again, if this is TRULY about a partnership, great. But the lack of clarity smells fishy.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Let's think about another Canadian (now American/Brazilian) company that was purchased by a private equity firm - Tim Hortons. It's all about money to those firms, and nothing more.

I'll say again, if this is TRULY about a partnership, great. But the lack of clarity smells fishy.

Your instincts are right.

It's not going to be a partnership. The CFL crew will be shown the door.

[Skinny G]

Here is what Jim Mullins (someone who CLEARLY loves our game and our league!) posted last night about this - https://twitter.com/Jim_MullinTSN

Here are some personal thoughts from someone on the front lines of amateur football in Canada after the news broke yesterday regarding the CFL and XFL discussing possible alignment paths. /1

Canadian Football was my gateway into football and remained the vehicle to why I, along with legions of fans, coaches, officials, volunteers and media across Canada, dedicate their time, energy and passion to building the game./2

Today, football is much more than the 12-man game in our country. It is 6-man for kids and small towns. It is flag for beginners and Team Canada at World Championships. It is our world junior team winning back-to-back gold medals playing American Football. /3

For some, contributing to something uniquely Canadian can be more significant than the sport itself. Our Canadian game is just that; it’s ours. It does not belong to a league, a conference or an association. It's a set of values we share that sustain us as an unlikely nation. /4

In a country that asks so little of us to be Canadian, football demands our better self; To make disparate parts work in unison, with a dedication to the community and a focus on resourcefulness. /5

The CFL has decisions to make as a league to set it on a sustainable pathway as a business instead of remaining a philanthropic institution. However, alignment within the sport in Canada needs to remain a primary objective. /6

Cities, municipalities, schools and universities have installed infrastructure specific to our game. The league cannot radically alter their game in isolation without adverse effects on our sport. /7

Let’s move forward with confidence in what we’ve developed in over 150 years of Canadian football. Let’s dialogue with those globally who respect what we’ve achieved in our sport. And, if a visiting team wants a game here, stand proud & invite them to play our game. #playourgame

[OV Argo]

Here is what Jim Mullins (someone who CLEARLY loves our game and our league!) posted last night about this - https://twitter.com/Jim_MullinTSN

Here are some personal thoughts from someone on the front lines of amateur football in Canada after the news broke yesterday regarding the CFL and XFL discussing possible alignment paths. /1

Canadian Football was my gateway into football and remained the vehicle to why I, along with legions of fans, coaches, officials, volunteers and media across Canada, dedicate their time, energy and passion to building the game./2

Today, football is much more than the 12-man game in our country. It is 6-man for kids and small towns. It is flag for beginners and Team Canada at World Championships. It is our world junior team winning back-to-back gold medals playing American Football. /3

For some, contributing to something uniquely Canadian can be more significant than the sport itself. Our Canadian game is just that; it’s ours. It does not belong to a league, a conference or an association. It's a set of values we share that sustain us as an unlikely nation. /4

In a country that asks so little of us to be Canadian, football demands our better self; To make disparate parts work in unison, with a dedication to the community and a focus on resourcefulness. /5

The CFL has decisions to make as a league to set it on a sustainable pathway as a business instead of remaining a philanthropic institution. However, alignment within the sport in Canada needs to remain a primary objective. /6

Cities, municipalities, schools and universities have installed infrastructure specific to our game. The league cannot radically alter their game in isolation without adverse effects on our sport. /7

Let’s move forward with confidence in what we’ve developed in over 150 years of Canadian football. Let’s dialogue with those globally who respect what we’ve achieved in our sport. And, if a visiting team wants a game here, stand proud & invite them to play our game. #playourgame

Good for Jim Mullin - bravo !!! Canadian football needs way more like him, IMO.

People are jumping the gun on what will happen with these XFL talks, and some are seeing doom & gloom. But who really knows at this point.

But IF the CFL does undergo radical changes including converting to American rules and further reductions in Canadian talent getting real shots to play in the big league in their own country, then I won't be watching the (X)CFL anymore; don't care if the BOGs make oodles of ca$h and they get noticed in the USA. Some up here might go for a shiny new XCFL, but I bet a lot won't and would still crave real Canadian football.

So, there might become a void for a new league of Canadian football - one that is not run by Americans / for Americans like the current CFL has evolved to. One that maintains Canadian football rules, tradition & history and values top Canadian talent playing. And groups and people like Football Canada & Mr. Mullin along with some wealthy backers might get a chance to form such a league - would be a tough road probably, but you never know.

[Skinny G]

Clearly Bob Young is one of the leads behind this whole merger, and doesn't care about the Canadian Game & CFL as much as he likes to say he is.
Via CFL_New Twitter/Fan 590. - https://twitter.com/CFL_News

@CaretakerBob

- "100 years ago you weren't allowed to pass the ball forward. Our rules do keep changing. As long as they change for the better our fans will follow us. If they change for the worse, they won't follow us." #CFL #XFL #Ticats via @FAN590

[ArgoGabe22]

"100 years ago you weren't allowed to pass the ball forward. Our rules do keep changing. As long as they change for the better our fans will follow us. If they change for the worse, they won't follow us." #CFL #XFL #Ticats via @FAN590

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Minor tweaks are fine like OT, converts etc. but is the wider field, 12 players, 3 downs really an issue that needs tweaking?