CFL/XFL Collaboration

[Shatto]

Excellent points made by Skinny. Hopefully, he doesn't mind but I'd like the reiterate the point about the TV revenue. No spring league has ever received revenue from TV and some have actually had to pay for TV exposure. IMO with or without the CFL, this is not likely to change.

[jerrym]

I don't often agree with Arash Madani, but on his belief that joining with the XFL would be a disaster, I do.

Often bemoaned for his negativity among CFL circles, Arash Madani rose to the defence of the troubled league during a recent episode of the XFL Markcast, spending nearly an hour dismantling every aspect of the XFL proposal in brutally honest fashion. ...

“Pro football leagues do not work. There have only been two that have worked, the NFL — which is a behemoth, forget it, don’t even compare anything with the NFL — and the CFL. Every other league be it the Alliance of American Football, the World League of American Football, Arena Football 2, Arena Football, be it the XFL twice, they have all failed and there’s a reason for that,” he began his tear down of the twice-failed XFL.

Much has been made of the CFL’s failing business model since the two leagues have agreed to work together to identify opportunities for both to innovate and grow the game of football. Madani doesn’t buy it. “It’s not just that the CFL’s business model doesn’t work, [alternative football] just doesn’t work at all. People do not have interest in anything outside of major college football and the NFL in the United States,” he continued. “Nothing we have seen in history, from the USFL that had real stars to leagues that have had major money backing them to network supporting and investing in them, it has not succeeded.” ...

“You have no football people. You have no helmets. You have nothing. You have nothing but a name. That’s all the XFL is right now. It’s a name,” Madani insisted. “There is nothing there other than moldy uniforms and expired helmets and shoulder pads.”

The glitz and glamour of The Rock and RedBird Capital’s $4 billion are great, but none of that is a guarantee of sustainability. ...

“They’re looking for the Hail Mary all the time. ‘Wait until we get out of the baseball stadium in Toronto — we’re going to move outdoors, we’re going to have tailgating, it’s all going to be fixed. Wait until Johnny Manziel shows up, then all our problems are solved and he’s going to sell a million tickets. We’re going to bring Ricky Williams to Toronto and he’s going to take the city by storm,'” Madani illustrated. “Nothing is a quick fix. I understand The Rock has a lot of money and I understand RedBird has got a lot of money. They have no idea how to run a pro football league.”

The solution, according to Madani, must remain a roll-up-your-sleeves hard work approach that the CFL has failed at time and again due to a lack of vision. “Here’s what you do: you actually have some leadership. Some people who put together an idea and a plan,” he explained. “The CFL has been poorly run forever. It’s been poorly run at the league side and at the team side, all over the place.”

While the CFL has failed to market or engage growing grassroots areas of engagement like flag football, the league has suffered. Partnering with a failed enterprise is no substitute for those activities.

“Selling your soul to go down the river with something that is not established whatsoever for a product that can very easily get forgotten about in the sports landscape is a major mistake,” Madani emphasized.

https://3downnation.com/2021/04/09/t...-merger-talks/

[Argo57]

I don't often agree with Arash Madani, but on his belief that joining with the XFL would be a disaster, I do.

https://3downnation.com/2021/04/09/t...-merger-talks/

I understand the CFL’s business model is probably broken but this whole thing has really bummed me out, I love this league and our game (as it is).
Can’t help but have the sickening thought that Ambrosie and the gang are going to sell a large piece of Canadian tradition down the river.
Love the fact that this game is unique, Canadian and downright special to most of us.
Always loved spending time at Argonaut games with my dad and would hate to think that this could disappear.

[OV Argo]

I understand the CFL’s business model is probably broken but this whole thing has really bummed me out, I love this league and our game (as it is).
Can’t help but have the sickening thought that Ambrosie and the gang are going to sell a large piece of Canadian tradition down the river.
Love the fact that this game is unique, Canadian and downright special to most of us.
Always loved spending time at Argonaut games with my dad and would hate to think that this could disappear.

Agreed 57 - would be a shame to lose the CFL we grew-up on and have followed for so long.

Sad thing is - this news of a possible XFL partnership is around 2 weeks old now and Ambrosie and the CFL have not been able to come out and make a clear statement or declaration to it's fans and supporters. They could just say - "we're broke and finished as is, so we will do anything including selling-out to become American football like"; OR declare that Canadian football rules and Canadian player content are sacred to our business/sport/league and any collaboration with the XFL or whoever, will see the Canadian game preserved. Too much to ask I guess; and we should just shut-up and put-up with whatever the new "business model" deems is best. Just a business like any other and none of joe average fan's business what they do ?

[Shatto]

A unnamed politician once said, in order to make changes that people would never buy, you need to have a disaster and use that disaster (even if you have to create it) to justify doing what we always wanted to do in the first place. The pandemic and the "supposed" annual loses are being used to justify change that would never be accepted in normal times.

Yes, the business model needs to be improved upon. Sensible solutions like gate revenue sharing are not being contemplated but rather illogical schemes, like merging with an American spring league that has no chance of TV revenue and is highly unlikely to exist after a year or so, are being considered.

As Jerrym has mentioned, Madani has outlined why merging or even collaborating with the XFL will be a disaster. Desperate times may demand desperate measures but not foolish ones.

[Skinny G]

Growing Football in Canada

That’s what Ambrosie says has to be done right? “"Everyone wants to see football in Canada grow and be stronger. If we can harness that energy, then this is going to be a very positive experience for us." – is what he said in this last call regarding the XFL talk.

Well, why isn’t he/the league working with Football Canada? We went in to take a look at what Football Canada has been developing and found some interesting things:

• They created a football coaching app to be shared with all amateur football coaches - https://www.footballcanadamobile.com/
• It was created in collaboration with all provincial football associations in Canada, except Quebec

The collaboration with the provincial football associations totally makes sense, but I think there is a league that’s missing here…

Looking further, we noticed that Football Canada has another partner specifically around football education… USA Football!

In addition to all this, also found out that Ontario Football worked with Players Health to provide their injury tracking app to use too! - http://ontariofootball.ca/news.php?news_id=1919221

You would think with how important it is to grow the game, the league would be involved with these associations as key partners, to be able to cross market, as well as promote the league.

For the Football Canada Coaching App, imagine if you could have CFL players doing the walk throughs? Arbuckle doing QB drills, Brescasin doing WR drills, Campbell doing OLine drills, etc. It’s all added visibility.

Also, look at all the leagues/teams Football Canada helps/supports/leads – U18, U19, Junior National, Sr Women’s, Sr. Mens, Women’s Flag Football, Men’s Flag Football (http://footballcanada.com/ ). Beyond each of these respective teams, Football Canada also manages Flag Football leagues across the country - http://cffl.footballcanada.com/find-league/

This is where the CFL needs to be! Jim Mullin and his team have basically done all the work for league… but Ambrosie is too busy being useless to see that all of this is there for the league. Plus it shouldn’t be done individually team by team. We saw in 2019 that the Argos started to get involved in supporting and being around youth and flag football (which was great to see), but it should be league driven, and it’s not going to just happen overnight.

[carlos]

Nice step in the right direction for Canadian football with Calvin McCarty being hired as a high school coach in Edmonton. I expect he will do well and won't be surprised to see a graduate of his program become a future player five years or so down the road.

[Skinny G]

Looks like the CFL has asked for a new loan from the Federal Government...they are currently in negotiations. I hope they were watching the Air Canada deal and how much transparency/accountability the Feds put on Air Canada, even getting a stake in the company. They also are forcing AC to have a sustainable business plan.

It would be great if the Government forced all of these same requests onto the CFL, and then maybe they would get their act together. Also, would like to be a fly on the wall when the Feds ask "So, about this XFL thing, how many Canadians will be impacted?"

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl-continuing-ta...n-21-1.1622252

[OV Argo]

Looks like the CFL has asked for a new loan from the Federal Government...they are currently in negotiations. I hope they were watching the Air Canada deal and how much transparency/accountability the Feds put on Air Canada, even getting a stake in the company. They also are forcing AC to have a sustainable business plan.

It would be great if the Government forced all of these same requests onto the CFL, and then maybe they would get their act together. Also, would like to be a fly on the wall when the Feds ask "So, about this XFL thing, how many Canadians will be impacted?"

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl-continuing-ta...n-21-1.1622252

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall there.

Some Fed / MP might want to ask the CFL "leadership" some tough questions: "so, you say you're a Canadian "business" and "cultural" institution that needs some help? ; funny though how you've purposely evolved to be an enterprise that employs more Americans than Canadians in key jobs (coaching staffs; player roster; highest paid job reserved for Americans only) " ; are you going to ask the US government for some assistance too ? are you going to change a whole bunch of your cultural tradition to become even more American like ?

[Shatto]

The last time Ambrosie completely bungled the appeal for federal funds. He did not connect with sympathetic politicians, who could have guided and paved the way to a more effective submission and he completely underestimated the significance that the absence of player reps had on the MP's Hopefully, he will be better prepared in addressing those failings of last year.

The uniqueness of the CFL in Canadian sports, is a great potential selling point but as Skinny and OV correctly points out, the question of the negative effect of any type of merger with the XFL could undermine the Canadian players interests. This certainly will not help in the negotiations for financial support from the feds.

[Argo57]

I have obtained the training video that the CFL provided Ambrosie for his ill fated plea for financial assistance a few months ago.
Not sure why it didn’t go as planned.

https://youtu.be/lc01Uw8PcfU

[OV Argo]

Sure is a ton of coverage and hype for Global prospects over on the CFL site; makes me think of Ambrosie's big plan as maybe part of a deal to sell-out the CFL/ Canadian football and be open to a new XCFL - welcoming the Global community into part of a new football vision (they only know American football in other parts of the world - no clue about Canadian football).

[Wobbler]

Considering that the draft is happening in two days, the coverage on CFL.ca is pretty light.

[AngeloV]

Considering that the draft is happening in two days, the coverage on CFL.ca is pretty light.

Probably due to layoffs.

[OV Argo]

Considering that the draft is happening in two days, the coverage on CFL.ca is pretty light.

You mean the CFL Global Draft is in 2 days ?

Like I said above - there has been tons of coverage on CFL.ca on some of these Global prospects and how cool it would be to see them in the CFL.

Too bad some to do with the CFL didn't care as much about Canadian talent.

[Mocha]

I wonder if something like this could work:

XFL plays their 10 game schedule Feb through April. And the CFL would play its 18-game schedule June through November. The XFL teams would all be owned by (or somehow closely affiliated with) CFL teams. That way, players, coaches, scouts, etc. could be employed more of the year for, hopefully, only a relatively small increase in salary.

The teams would be:
Montreal Alouettes (play indoors at the Big O)
BC Lions (play indoors at BC Place)
St. Louis Battlehawks (Winnipeg Blue Bombers)
LA/San Diego Wildcats (Hamilton Tiger-Cats)
Houston Roughnecks (Calgary Stampeders)
Dallas Renegades (Edmonton Eskimos)
DC Defenders (Ottawa Redblacks)
NY Guardians (Toronto Argonauts)
Seattle Sea Dragons (Saskatchewan Roughriders)
TB or some other more viable market (Atlantic Schooners)??

Maybe it'd be possible to give Toronto an XFL team if they play all their February games on the road? Then, perhaps affiliate NY with the Schooners onwership and leave TB out.

This would allow CFL fans to follow their teams during XFL season and hopefully attract more US viewers to follow their city's teams during the CFL season. Both leagues could keep their schedule and rules intact (though I'd like to see the XFL adopt unlimited motion and the rouge) and lower the costs of running each franchise.

[Skinny G]

Feds and CFL in talks for potential support this year

https://leaderpost.com/news/saskatch...this-year-carr

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Like everyone else on this forum I love the CFL and I've supported in for damn near 60 years. That being said I don't want to give these guys a single tax dollar until Randy comes clean with EXACTLY what these XFL discussions are all about. So far it has been nothing but speculation by people not in the discussions. It's time to fess up Randy before you go hat in hand to the governemnt for help.

[Argo57]

Like everyone else on this forum I love the CFL and I've supported in for damn near 60 years. That being said I don't want to give these guys a single tax dollar until Randy comes clean with EXACTLY what these XFL discussions are all about. So far it has been nothing but speculation by people not in the discussions. It's time to fess up Randy before you go hat in hand to the governemnt for help.

Zero chance this happens, Randy and the gang apparently have difficulty keeping the CFLPA in the loop.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Randy Ambrosie has become a major disaapointment to me and an obstacle to success. It is time for him to go. It's a mystery to me how he is able to sell these lamebrain ideas of his to the Board of Governors and keep his job. The most disappointing aspect of his tenure, and there are many is his relationship with PA. As a former player he should know better.