2021 CFL and Argo Attendance

[paulwoods13]

In the long-term, assuming MLSE has the willingness to stay in, the economics have to favour the Argos over TFC. TFC's biggest expense is in $U.S. and their salary budget is over 5x what the Argos is but their TV viewership is brutal. As others have said, now that expansion fees are drying up, reality will sink in regarding that league's economics.

People have been saying that for a long time. Last I heard, TFC was valued (by Forbes, I think it was) at $650M. It cost MLSE $10M for the franchise. Perhaps the MLS bubble will burst one of these days, but in view of how much bigger international soccer seems to be getting every year in North America, I'm not counting on that.

[OV Argo]

Soccer is part of "woke culture", believe it or not. MLSE is willing to lose a fortune on TFC. They would not be so willing for the Argos.

Soccer is a historic sport for a lot of new Canadians (immigrants); and is also trendy amongst all the trend-mongers and wannabes out there.

OTOH - Canadian football is a historic national sport - game invented and played (at many levels) in Canada for over 100 years. There are 3 pro Canadian football teams in Ontario and 11 OUA teams and a Junior football league as well; somebody should add up the combined weekend attendance for those 3 leagues when they all host games and put it out there for soccer snobs to try to grasp that a large number of people like and attend Canadian football games. The CFL's TV #s blow-away soccer TV#s; sorry bout that though.

MLSE types don't get the latter concept and have no clue how to market both the Argos and Canadian football. Somebody else might; and it would help to have CFL leadership and U Sports leaders on board to help in marketing the game (i.e. not that clown Ambrosie).

[ArgoRavi]

People have been saying that for a long time. Last I heard, TFC was valued (by Forbes, I think it was) at $650M. It cost MLSE $10M for the franchise. Perhaps the MLS bubble will burst one of these days, but in view of how much bigger international soccer seems to be getting every year in North America, I'm not counting on that.

The MLS is bearing more and more of a resemblance to the NASL all the time in regards to their over-expansion.

I am a little skeptical about the Forbes valuations but it would be interesting to see how much TFC could fetch on the open market. I suspect the franchise has more value in the US than in Canada though.

[AngeloV]

The MLS is bearing more and more of a resemblance to the NASL all the time in regards to their over-expansion.

I am a little skeptical about the Forbes valuations but it would be interesting to see how much TFC could fetch on the open market. I suspect the franchise has more value in the US than in Canada though.

I’m skeptical too. Forbes, values the Leafs, a licence to print money, at 1.5B. There is no way TFC should be valued anywhere near 40% of what the Leafs are valued at. Forbes obviously is taking expansion fee sharing into account. When that’s gone will the value go down? I suspect it will big time

[matthew]

Yeah, but; did anybody see that guy who bought the BC Lions waiting in the wings ? Is he some sort of fool for buying a team with weak attendance and fan interest in the huge BC market ?

No he is not a fool he cares about the CFL which many of us on this site have said is what we need. Thank god for people like him, Bob and the consortium in Calgary that keep this all alive. We’d be blessed to have an owner that cares.

[Bill G]

The Argonauts must keep some sort of database of former season ticket holders and single-game ticket purchasers.

Are there follow ups done with these individuals?

Can confirm that they used to ... After going to the season opener in 2017 I got called by the Argos to buy season tickets before the 2018 season. Happy to report I did get season tix that season (and for the next two).

[DanTheFan]

Can confirm that they used to ... After going to the season opener in 2017 I got called by the Argos to buy season tickets before the 2018 season. Happy to report I did get season tix that season (and for the next two).

Now that you bring that up, I remember the same thing happened to me. I think it was the year after that after they gave the replica rings away. Hoping they crank up the push from the ticket office with more hires after having read about tons of difficulty people have been having contacting sales reps. I really appreciated being reached out to, but held out on getting seasons until this year.

[ArgoGabe22]

Hamilton’s attendance has been slowly increasing over time. Roughly 15k, 15k, 18k, 21k within their last home games. Seems like Sept 22 hasn’t affected their numbers much.

[argolio]

it would help to have CFL leadership and U Sports leaders on board to help in marketing the game (i.e. not that clown Ambrosie).

Marketing help from CIAU/CIS/U Sports people who have spent the last 50 years systematically destroying Canadian university football's national exposure? No thanks.

[Will]

I am not really going to laud a crowd of 9,088 but it was more than I was expecting given the weather.

[ArgoGabe22]

Looked less on TV tbh. Chris Creamer from sports logos dot net said it was a loud crowd.

[Shatto]

Recently the Argos have been close to doubling the TFC stadium attendance. Considering the Argo TV numbers absolutely dwarf the TFC TV audience, why don't we hear more about this in the media? With the TFC salary for 2021, over four times the Argo salary for 2021, why is there no discussion about how long MLSE might be willing to take these losses. I enjoy soccer and wish TFC every success but it astounds me that the media has not highlighted the situation, as they seem be quick to point out the problems facing the Argos.

[Wobbler]

2021 average home attendance will be the lowest in the last hundred years.

Yes, COVID-19, but TFC isn't the problem.

[Will]

Recently the Argos have been close to doubling the TFC stadium attendance. Considering the Argo TV numbers absolutely dwarf the TFC TV audience, why don't we hear more about this in the media? With the TFC salary for 2021, over four times the Argo salary for 2021, why is there no discussion about how long MLSE might be willing to take these losses. I enjoy soccer and wish TFC every success but it astounds me that the media has not highlighted the situation, as they seem be quick to point out the problems facing the Argos.

Maybe the pundits believe that TFC will rebound next year? Although I don't see that likely if the team doesn't improve.

[AngeloV]

Recently the Argos have been close to doubling the TFC stadium attendance. Considering the Argo TV numbers absolutely dwarf the TFC TV audience, why don't we hear more about this in the media? With the TFC salary for 2021, over four times the Argo salary for 2021, why is there no discussion about how long MLSE might be willing to take these losses. I enjoy soccer and wish TFC every success but it astounds me that the media has not highlighted the situation, as they seem be quick to point out the problems facing the Argos.

Not going to lie, I am shocked that TFC is drawing such small crowds, even with COVID and a team that has been terrible. The reason it isn't as big a deal as the Argos though, is because Argos attendance has been trending down for years. With TFC, it might be a one off. Once it becomes a trend, that's when the panic sets in.

[Shatto]

The issue is not TFC, rather I was attempting to contrast how the media appears to treat the Argos as compared to other sports organizations, TFC in particular, since the two teams share so many common features.

Perhaps my perception that the media is somewhat uncaring and somewhat negative to the team is wrong. Nevertheless it is my perception.

[1971GreyCup]

Recently the Argos have been close to doubling the TFC stadium attendance. Considering the Argo TV numbers absolutely dwarf the TFC TV audience, why don't we hear more about this in the media? With the TFC salary for 2021, over four times the Argo salary for 2021, why is there no discussion about how long MLSE might be willing to take these losses. I enjoy soccer and wish TFC every success but it astounds me that the media has not highlighted the situation, as they seem be quick to point out the problems facing the Argos.

https://www.sounderatheart.com/2021/...ders-valuation

The current franchise value applied to TFC is $650 million. MLSE was always in it for the potential wealth creating opportunity from a North American version of the English Premiership League. And so far they aren’t wrong. 🤷🏻*♂️

[Will]

The issue is not TFC, rather I was attempting to contrast how the media appears to treat the Argos as compared to other sports organizations, TFC in particular, since the two teams share so many common features.

Perhaps my perception that the media is somewhat uncaring and somewhat negative to the team is wrong. Nevertheless it is my perception.

I've seen TFC fans lament about the coverage their team gets within the media as well. I'm not specifically looking out for it, so I'm not in a position to judge their assertion though.

[argolio]

The issue is not TFC, rather I was attempting to contrast how the media appears to treat the Argos as compared to other sports organizations, TFC in particular, since the two teams share so many common features.

Perhaps my perception that the media is somewhat uncaring and somewhat negative to the team is wrong. Nevertheless it is my perception.

Probably a carryover of TFC being a "thing" in this town more recently than the Argos.

Ironically, I think the success of the men's national team is hurting TFC.

https://www.sounderatheart.com/2021/...ders-valuation

The current franchise value applied to TFC is $650 million. MLSE was always in it for the potential wealth creating opportunity from a North American version of the English Premiership League. And so far they aren’t wrong. 🤷🏻*♂️

Nobody believes TFC would sell for anything close to that on the open market.

[OV Argo]

The issue is not TFC, rather I was attempting to contrast how the media appears to treat the Argos as compared to other sports organizations, TFC in particular, since the two teams share so many common features.

Perhaps my perception that the media is somewhat uncaring and somewhat negative to the team is wrong. Nevertheless it is my perception.

No ! Your are bang-on there IMO.

And this factor is vastly under-estimated or not understood by many; not only what the Argos are up against in the GTA, but what the CFL faces all over ... in it's own gawd damn country; and been going on for decades now.

I guess the heavy-weight sports experts and marketing gurus at MLSE have no clue though; just throw their hands up in the air and say nothing we can do ?