Week 10 Game Thread - Ottawa Redblacks @ Toronto Argonauts

[cfl-cis fan]

Argos had another punt blocked, and Ottawa also took a roughing the kicker penalty which means they got through to Bede a second time.

Special teams needs some roster consistency. You can not keep expecting the personal protectors to handle 2 some time 3 guys coming through. This is on the guys up front and you can not keep changing this and not expect bad results sometimes.

[CrazyCanuck89]

Liked what I saw from Hoyte, you guys may have found a gem in the fourth round.

[Will]

I thought they would at least introduce each player and bring them out on the field at halftime (like they did with the 1983 team), but nothing.
When you hype the game as a celebration of the 1991 Grey Cup Championship you may want to actually do something beyond a few video clips during the game.

It is my understanding that COVID prevented them from doing something more substantive.

[Will]

Of concern is Jake Reinhart's injury. You obviously don't f*** with the long snapper nor is it easy to simply find out out of thin air.

[shayman]

It is my understanding that COVID prevented them from doing something more substantive.

When they showed the scene of the box where the players were, I looked around from my seat and honestly couldn't tell where it was. That was awkwardly done. We all wanted to cheer but couldn't figure out where to look. (I finally figured out that a lot of the in game things, like the national anthem, are done from the plateau in the northwest corner of the stadium, but when they honoured the Canadian Forces member I couldn't spot where that was either.) Wish they could figure out a way to use the scoreboard and the long zipper display running the length of the grandstand to tell us where to look once in a while.

Even the welcome return of (a much smaller) Argos A-Team had them off in a corner with very little visibility.

It must be COVID preventing them from doing this on the field, although there seems to be no problem having the standard halftime divot-replacement show.

things are inching back towards normal, though. just wish it would move faster. and that more people would come.

[paulwoods13]

I did not think MBT played well. After you subtract Foster's 63 yard screen pass that started behind the line of scrimmage MBT had only 118 yards passing, but he did a decent job of managing the game to avoid mistakes by running a conservative offence once the Argos had a large lead thanks to the interceptions for TDs.

Is it just me, or does Macbeth always break our hearts? After a good game against montreal, everyone was thinking QB controversy. But he struggles when it comes to stringing good games together. He had one good drive in the second half, a lot of which was Foster running like a beast. Great pass to Jean pierre, but I'm still eager to have Arbuckle back.

Does anyone else see the irony here? When MBT was leading the league in TD passes, some fans groused that it was all due to "garbage time" stats, and the real indicator of his worth was the team's terrible won-lost record. Now, when he is 3-1 as a starter (a record surpassed this season by just one other QB in the league), some fans find other stuff to grouse about.

The guy threw only 21 passes all game. He completed 71% of them for an average gain of 8.6 yards per attempt. He threw two more TDs, giving him seven in four starts plus brief mopup duty in a fifth game. He turned the ball over for the first time all year. After his team got out to 26-point lead, he handed the ball off 11 times and attempted just three passes. That's what you are supposed to do when winning in "garbage time."

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am very enticed by the potential of Arbuckle, and want him to get healthy enough that the coach can choose how to deploy his QBs. But the lack of appreciation for what MBT brings to the table really annoys me.

[AngeloV]

He turned the ball over for the first time all year.

While officially in the stats as an INT, I personally don't think a pick on a conversion attempt should be counted against a QB's stats. It's not like they get a TD added if they complete the pass for 2.

MBT is such an easy target for people. Clearly nobody knows who is to blame whenever there is an incompletion, but Gittens didn't make the correct sight adjustment on one of them. There was a guy in the next section over from me wearing a Don Moen jersey that was giving it to him after each incompletion. After the Jeanpierre TD, I waited for the noise to calm down, and then I just started yelling "way to go MBT. We love you. Some people have no clue what they are talking about."

So irritating to hear "fans" yell at your players when you are actually winning. Ridiculous IMO.

Also no idea how MBT broke our hearts in a 35-16 victory.

[argolio]

From some of these comments, I get the impression that defence and special teams are not really part of football and we actually lost this game.

[REAL]

Special teams needs some roster consistency. You can not keep expecting the personal protectors to handle 2 some time 3 guys coming through. This is on the guys up front and you can not keep changing this and not expect bad results sometimes.

Thinking Xs and Argos should ask the special teams coach about the 2 blocks ( 1 for and 1 against) rather than speculate and ....

[AngeloV]

Thinking Xs and Argos should ask the special teams coach about the 2 blocks ( 1 for and 1 against) rather than speculate and ....

You know how it goes with some posters. Defend all Canadian players even if nobody is blaming them.

[Will]

What is it about McLeod Bethel-Thompson that pisses other people off?

[AngeloV]

What is it about McLeod Bethel-Thompson that pisses other people off?

I think people look at the last 2 years of 4-14 and let's face it, always easiest to blame the QB. The team was bad. That's why they lost. Not because of him. The team is better this year (coaching and talent wise) and the team is 3-1 with him as their starter, only loss coming in a place that is incredibly hard to win (nobody has done it this year). But some just can't let go of the 4-14 seasons which were not his fault.

[jerrym]

I did not think MBT played well. After you subtract Foster's 63 yard screen pass that started behind the line of scrimmage MBT had only 118 yards passing, but he did a decent job of managing the game to avoid mistakes by running a conservative offence once the Argos had a large lead thanks to the interceptions for TDs.

Does anyone else see the irony here? When MBT was leading the league in TD passes, some fans groused that it was all due to "garbage time" stats, and the real indicator of his worth was the team's terrible won-lost record. Now, when he is 3-1 as a starter (a record surpassed this season by just one other QB in the league), some fans find other stuff to grouse about.

The guy threw only 21 passes all game. He completed 71% of them for an average gain of 8.6 yards per attempt. He threw two more TDs, giving him seven in four starts plus brief mopup duty in a fifth game. He turned the ball over for the first time all year. After his team got out to 26-point lead, he handed the ball off 11 times and attempted just three passes. That's what you are supposed to do when winning in "garbage time."

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am very enticed by the potential of Arbuckle, and want him to get healthy enough that the coach can choose how to deploy his QBs. But the lack of appreciation for what MBT brings to the table really annoys me.

What is it about McLeod Bethel-Thompson that pisses other people off?

I didn't say I was pissed off with MBT. I said I didn't think he played well and I acknowledged that he did a decent job of managing the game conservatively with a large lead. I said at the start of the season that I still had some reservations about MBT, which does not mean I thought he was terrible or even mediocre. I thought he played well in his last game. There was a long let-down after a good start when MBT seemed off not only to my eyes but to Duane Ford's and Ferguson. I have been far from MBT's worse critic. He then managed the game with a large lead in my view and I acknowledged that in my post. Some people here refuse to accept that others don't see things their way and get defensive about any criticism of MBT.

[OV Argo]

I didn't say I was pissed off with MBT. I said I didn't not think he played well and I acknowledged that he did a decent job of managing the game conservatively with a large lead. I said at the start of the season that I still had some reservations about MBT, which does not mean I thought he was terrible or even mediocre. I thought he played well in his last game. There was a long let-down after a good start when MBT seemed off not only to my eyes but to Duane Ford's and Ferguson. I have been far from MBT's worse critic. He then managed the game with a large lead in my view and I acknowledged that in my post. Some people here refuse to accept that others don't see things their way and get defensive about any criticism of MBT.

Bang-on jerry; to each his own views of the plays, players, team. Some do get all bent out of shape when they read an opinion they don't like - a "how dare you think that" attitude; why can't they just reply with their own take on things to present a different view or angle ?

[OV Argo]

Liked what I saw from Hoyte, you guys may have found a gem in the fourth round.

Hoyte was on no media or fan forum (that i noticed) radar at the time of the last draft; same for Schaffer-Baker who has broken out at receiver for the Riders.

[RB957]

What is it about McLeod Bethel-Thompson that pisses other people off?

I didn't say I was pissed off with MBT. I said I didn't not think he played well and I acknowledged that he did a decent job of managing the game conservatively with a large lead. I said at the start of the season that I still had some reservations about MBT, which does not mean I thought he was terrible or even mediocre. I thought he played well in his last game. There was a long let-down after a good start when MBT seemed off not only to my eyes but to Duane Ford's and Ferguson. I have been far from MBT's worse critic. He then managed the game with a large lead in my view and I acknowledged that in my post. Some people here refuse to accept that others don't see things their way and get defensive about any criticism of MBT.

I agree with JerryM and to be clear, I for one am not "pissed off" with MBT. I just think that he is not the guy the Argos should be heavily investing in as their #1 QB. He had a very solid outing against Montreal, but in my opinion, a pedestrian effort last night. And honestly, that is how it seems to go with him. He looks great, then makes some awful throws and decisions. And I know you can say this can happen to any player, but MBT is now in his thirties... supposedly his "prime". He has played with what, 9 different teams in 4 different leagues. It isn't getting any better, it just is what it is. I am thrilled we have him because I see him as probably the best QB who is not a starter and we need to have a capable backup. But he is not "the guy", as far as I am concerned. For those who say that the two 4 - 14 seasons were not all his fault, I agree. But by the same token, the fact we are 3 - 1 this year with him starting is because of him either. What if we had used the time in those losing years to allow a younger QB to get all those reps? Would we be in a better position today, with a more solid future? Possibly. A big issue is that in the past, because of the instability with ownership, coaches trying to preserve their jobs etc., there was not a willingness or the luxury to allow players to grow. We were fortunate to win two Grey Cups in the last 10 years, but both those teams had .500 records and could never sustain anything going forward. Like I have said before, the Argos have signed and begun to develop multiple young QB's who then leave and achieve success with other teams. We need this to stop. As long as Nick Arbuckle is injured then MBT should be the starter. But as soon as Arbuckle is healthy, he should be the #1. If he is faltering, then you can always pull him, because we are still in the thick of things to win the division, but he needs to start.

[paulwoods13]

I didn't say I was pissed off with MBT. I said I didn't think he played well and I acknowledged that he did a decent job of managing the game conservatively with a large lead. I said at the start of the season that I still had some reservations about MBT, which does not mean I thought he was terrible or even mediocre. I thought he played well in his last game. There was a long let-down after a good start when MBT seemed off not only to my eyes but to Duane Ford's and Ferguson. I have been far from MBT's worse critic. He then managed the game with a large lead in my view and I acknowledged that in my post. Some people here refuse to accept that others don't see things their way and get defensive about any criticism of MBT.

Nobody said you were pissed off at MBT. It seems to me the question "why do people get pissed off at MBT?" was asked in response to my suggestion that, even when he does what people were mad about him not doing ("winning," not that I personally ascribe wins to QBs), people still find fault. My post expressing annoyance at the latest criticisms against him (classic damned-if-he-do/damned-if-he-don't, IMO), which seems to have sparked the "pissed off" question, was a response to two separate posts, not just yours. The other post was much stronger in its criticism than your "I didn't think he played well/he had low yardage/but he did manage the lead." But both of you did find fault with him. And I continue to find it ironic that some of the things he was criticized for in the past -- not "winning," turning the ball over, racking up most of his passing yards and TDs in "garbage time" -- don't seem to matter to some people now that he's doing almost the exact opposite. If you feel that viewpoint reflects me (or anyone else, for that matter) being defensive over criticism, so be it. Unanimity about how good MBT is or what constitutes adequate (or stellar) performance by him is clearly not to be found here; nor would I expect it to be.

[Shatto]

MBT did not have a good first half but the way the OL played, I'm not sure any QB would have looked vey good. The main thing is the team won and is now the division leader. If anyone had suggested the team would be 5-3 most of us would be delighted. The next game in Hamilton will be a real test.

[ArgoRavi]

Where did you find that, Ravi? I haven't been able to figure out who's scratched even once this year.

Matthew Scianetti mentioned it on TSN's pregame show.

[ArgoRavi]

Really can't see Jones, if he has full influence now, starting a rookie Canadian like Cassar at MLB; Jones likes to demonstrate what a genius he is by having players line-up all over the place or out of position. McCoil could line-up at MLB, and Dexter should be on the field on D at all times IMO.

While it wasn't Cassar, Jones did indeed start a rookie Canadian at MLB.