Week 13 - Lions @ ARGOS - October 30, 2021

[Mightygoose]

The "victory" formation gaffe will definitely go down in the ugly portion of the fancast this week.

Already meme worthy

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFL/comment...m_source=share

[Shatto]

MBT certainly did not have a good game but just as he did in Hamilton, he came up big when the game was on the line. Just before the overtime there was a comment on TV about Reilly being a big time player when it was needed (or words to that effect) but instead it was MBT who prevailed. I'm not claiming MBT is an elite QB but this season he has proved himself to be a winning QB--can't ask more than that.

[Rich]

Michael Reilly also missed a lot of open receivers and if not for a couple of drops by out DB's would have thrown 3 picks yesterday.

He also threw three pinpoint perfect long throw TD passes. Three huge plays for the QB. I was surprised at how well Reilly played, I thought he was washed up a couple of years ago.

I love how he keeps going deep all game long. You can accept a few misses if you also connect on a few. The Argo offence is more of a short range passing game. Is that because they believe MBT is weak with the long ball? What if the Argos play calling was more aggressive? If they called for more deep routes maybe MBT would get more comfortable throwing the long ball, and wouldn’t get the yips when he sees an open guy deep.

[OV Argo]

He also threw three pinpoint perfect long throw TD passes. Three huge plays for the QB. I was surprised at how well Reilly played, I thought he was washed up a couple of years ago.

I love how he keeps going deep all game long. You can accept a few misses if you also connect on a few. The Argo offence is more of a short range passing game. Is that because they believe MBT is weak with the long ball? What if the Argos play calling was more aggressive? If they called for more deep routes maybe MBT would get more comfortable throwing the long ball, and wouldn’t get the yips when he sees an open guy deep.

As Matt Dunigan likes to say: "can't go wrong, when you go long".

But standard, copy-cat CFL offences of today have deferred to mostly short passing game; since they have little faith in the run game, and maybe they are afraid of deep to intermediate passes turning into INTs (the TD/INT ratios of the great QBs of some great CFL decades featured way more INTs than we typically see today - and hardly because those great QBs weren't as good or accurate as some of the mediocres of today - the offensive play callers just went for way more high reward but slightly higher risk pass plays).

Reilly has a good deep passing arm and as a real vet QB might have a lot of pull/sway with the play selection or trusting his reads (and receivers) there - that MBT might not have with Dinwiddie ? Kinda helps to have a receiver of the skill level of Brian Burnham who can make great adjustments to the ball and come up with so many circus like catches. I think Rogers & Daniels in the current Argo corps can do that pretty well too - it's not just about blazing 40 speed for receivers to get open deep. And consistent accuracy on deep passes is not an easy task - it's clear IMO that MBT does not have it; and I've always said the same about Bo -L Mitchell: very poised, sharp and accurate CFL QB who makes good reads and can buy time in the pocket, but he just misses way too many open deep receivers - I think he could have made an NFL roster based on his all-around QB skills, but missing open deep receivers one too many times down there likely gets you cut.

Dinwiddie & Jackson are disciples of today's short /high % passing games; I doubt you see them change much from that, though love to see a more aggressive approach.

[AngeloV]

He also threw three pinpoint perfect long throw TD passes. Three huge plays for the QB. I was surprised at how well Reilly played, I thought he was washed up a couple of years ago.

I love how he keeps going deep all game long. You can accept a few misses if you also connect on a few. The Argo offence is more of a short range passing game. Is that because they believe MBT is weak with the long ball? What if the Argos play calling was more aggressive? If they called for more deep routes maybe MBT would get more comfortable throwing the long ball, and wouldn’t get the yips when he sees an open guy deep.

And yet he lost a game that was gift wrapped and is now 4-7 on the season.

[AngeloV]

As Matt Dunigan likes to say: "can't go wrong, when you go long".

.

I love Dunnigan, but he played in an era when cover 3 was just a rumour. Every team threw long back then because the deep ball was almost always a 1 on 1 cover.

[paulwoods13]

I would love to see much more variety in offensive philosophy, but with every team using the same basic defensive philosophy (bend but don't break, force teams to move the ball up the field slowly) we are unlikely to see anything different than we see at the moment.

For what it's worth, the Lions fan who writes about the team for 3DN complained repeatedly in his writeup of Saturday's game about the Lions stubbornly throwing deep all game, and linked that philosophy to the four straight defeats.

[OV Argo]

I love Dunnigan, but he played in an era when cover 3 was just a rumour. Every team threw long back then because the deep ball was almost always a 1 on 1 cover.

Yeah; those cover 3 defences are so awesome; seeing so many picks these days in the CFL cause of all those awesome DBs and offences just can't figure it out - pretty well every long pass tried is either picked off or easily covered.

And in Dunigan's day, there were some good, smart rovers who were allowed to make plays and come up with picks.

[argotom]

Agree with you Rich.
Was at the game, MBT was brutal at my count missed 4 open receivers and it wasn't even close misses.
Meanwhile Reilly I think hit 5 deep balls with tight spirals that pretty much lead his receivers.
I think the longest was 65 yards in the air.
We only won because of the rotten FG kicker for the Lions and inspite of MBT.

[Argo57]

Agree with you Rich.
Was at the game, MBT was brutal at my count missed 4 open receivers and it wasn't even close misses.
Meanwhile Reilly I think hit 5 deep balls with tight spirals that pretty much lead his receivers.
I think the longest was 65 yards in the air.
We only won because of the rotten FG kicker for the Lions and inspite of MBT.

Its not how but how many, I’ll take the win.

[paulwoods13]

We only won because of the rotten FG kicker for the Lions and inspite of MBT.

Or we only won because of our great FG kicker and in spite of the Lions getting two of the luckiest plays you will ever see.

[Will]

I'm not going to defend MBT's performance, but I don't necessarily buy the notion that Reilly tore the Argos to shreds either. He finished 20 of 38 for 290 yards, and 85 of those yards came off the fluke catch by Johnson and the TD pass to Burnham that followed. Other than that he was at 50% passing with around 200 yards. The lack of running game in BC is apparent and also contributed to their defeat. I think the wind shifted in the second half, the drizzle picked up and it was increasingly unpleasantly damp. Returning to my car in the lot S of BMO after dinner in Liberty Village at around 9:00 and it honestly felt warmer than it was during the game.

[argolio]

The good:
-improvement in the running game
-Jalen Collins locking down on Whitehead and taking him out of the game
-Bede (including two awesome kickoffs), and special teams in general

The bad:
-minimal pass rush against not a great o-line
-MBT (rough game)
-Ricky Collins (rougher game)
-offensive strategy of continually trying to attack the Lions D on the edges (roughest game)

The ugly:
-not knowing the Lions still had a timeout; we got away with a HUGE mistake

Also, props to Bryan Burnham. He's so good at reading a secondary and finding open spaces. Bo Lokombo was also a standout on Saturday.

[AngeloV]

Yeah; those cover 3 defences are so awesome; seeing so many picks these days in the CFL cause of all those awesome DBs and offences just can't figure it out - pretty well every long pass tried is either picked off or easily covered.

And in Dunigan's day, there were some good, smart rovers who were allowed to make plays and come up with picks.

So I guess you just don't understand what I'm saying. Teams in general don't throw deep as often as they did back in Dunnigan's day and it's because of the 3 deep zones most teams play. As far your comment about the Rovers, 90% of the interceptions by the rovers in those days came just playing centre field and catching an overthrow. They offered zero support on long balls down the sidelines, which was a Dunnigan special, because he knew he had 1 on 1 and the rover couldn't cover that much ground. Cover 1 and Cover zero, that is when you attack deep.

[Argo57]

The good:
-improvement in the running game
-Jalen Collins locking down on Whitehead and taking him out of the game
-Bede (including two awesome kickoffs), and special teams in general

The bad:
-minimal pass rush against not a great o-line
-MBT (rough game)
-Ricky Collins (rougher game)
-offensive strategy of continually trying to attack the Lions D on the edges (roughest game)

The ugly:
-not knowing the Lions still had a timeout; we got away with a HUGE mistake

Also, props to Bryan Burnham. He's so good at reading a secondary and finding open spaces. Bo Lokombo was also a standout on Saturday.

Good summary.
I didn’t understand running sweep plays on a slick field where the offensive player would have difficulty making the cut to go upfield.
Dinwiddie’s play calling is questionable at times especially when the Argos get into scoring position.
Still a lot to clean up on O and D.

[OV Argo]

So I guess you just don't understand what I'm saying. Teams in general don't throw deep as often as they did back in Dunnigan's day and it's because of the 3 deep zones most teams play. As far your comment about the Rovers, 90% of the interceptions by the rovers in those days came just playing centre field and catching an overthrow. They offered zero support on long balls down the sidelines, which was a Dunnigan special, because he knew he had 1 on 1 and the rover couldn't cover that much ground. Cover 1 and Cover zero, that is when you attack deep.

Yep - QBs won't throw deep as often into a 3 deep zone, but it is hardly some fool proof D plan on a huge Canadian football field; otherwise we would see next to no deep pass completions in the CFL anymore; the much bigger reason we don't see as many deep pass plays is because of the limited, safe/gutless play-calling from the clique of same-old recycled hacks who run CFL offences. As I mentioned - the average gain per completion in some CFL games now is laughable; and if you went to yards per pass attempt it is sometimes downright pathetic. But the GOB OCs love their 4 yard gainer hitch pass or 3 yard check-downs = brutal stuff. Honestly, a team could go to all run play calls and run 3 downs in a row and have better offensive success than a lot of the $hite short passing game in the CFL now; 4 yards /carry is a weak average on run plays now; good backs average well over 5.

[Argo57]

DC’s use varying blitz packages much more frequently necessitating the need for short quick passes and “check downs” to avoid sacks, does it suck sometimes to see frequent short passes and check downs…….yes it does but it also sucks seeing your QB take a beating when throwing more frequent deep passes.

[AngeloV]

I re-watched this game yesterday. Reilly is lucky he didn't throw 4 picks in this game, and his deep throws in the 2nd half were all brutal. He threw the 1 pick to Richards. Threw a deep ball to Whitehead in Double coverage that Butler could have picked. Threw a deep ball to Whitehead down the sidelines that Collins likely would have picked off but Whitehead broke it up (should have been OPI). Threw a long ball down the same sideline to Rhymes that Decoud had in his hands but was falling and couldn't hang on too.

Point being, it's tough to throw in the rain.