Toronto FC

[LLB997]

Back in the mid 1970s, a fine football-only facility in Toronto had to be reconfigured to accommodate the Blue Jays which made that facility not as good for football. Did Argo fans complain about that back then?

Torontonians then > Torontonians now

[T-Bone]

Back in the mid 1970s, a fine football-only facility in Toronto had to be reconfigured to accommodate the Blue Jays which made that facility not as good for football. Did Argo fans complain about that back then?

Like I said before, I wasn't alive in 1977 so I don't know if Argo fans complained when Exhibition Stadium was expanded to accommodate the Blue Jays. The playing surface was changed which may have upset people, however I would assume back then the attitude towards AstroTurf was different as it was still a newer technology. Plus the playing surface in football doesn't affect the game as much as it does in baseball or soccer. The current grandstand wasn't changed maintaining the original sightlines so there was no issue there. Also more seats meant more people could see games potentially expanding the fan base which I would assume was seen as a positive.

Torontonians then > Torontonians now

So by that same logic Torontonian Argo fans then > Torontonian Argo fans now. I'm sure that statment makes newer Argos fans feel good.

[Will]

When I get the opportunity I can go through the Star archives to see if there is any mention of any unhappiness from Argo fans regarding the renovations to Exhibition Stadium for the Toronto Blue Jays. I suspect that there was excitement generally in Toronto to the prospect of a major league baseball team though. The grandstand of Exhibition Stadium wasn't changed that is true, but the new "L" shaped grandstand that was built for baseball couldn't have been great for football once you got past where the bench seats ended and the chairs began.

[R.J]

So by that same logic Torontonian Argo fans then > Torontonian Argo fans now. I'm sure that statment makes newer Argos fans feel good.

I disagree with that, Argos fans are still very similar, just a lot less of a fan base nowadays. TFC fans view the Argos as a threat, probably why they are so negative towards the Argos. Raptors fans have been taking it for years, and continue to do so, yet they don't seem to mind the Argos TFC, Blue Jays.

[argonaut11xx]

The perfect senario is....let the T.S.C...Toronto Soccer Club, just fad away or move...then re-jig BMO as the Home of the Argonauts...

This soccer team is pretty bad, the league is about a 5th tier compared to real soccer...so its only a matter of time (hopefully) before it go's away, and the stadium can be used for a REAL sport, and a REAL team....

(watch the drunken soccer fans get angry at me now...haha)

[T-Bone]

I disagree with that, Argos fans are still very similar, just a lot less of a fan base nowadays.

I also disagree with LLB997's comment. It is a stupid generalization made with no thought behind it. My response to LLB997's comment was sarcastic. Though there maybe fewer Argo fans now then there were then there is still a very passionate fan base now. I think the biggest problem with the fan base is that it is fractured. If Argo fans start getting together and organizing they could be a much stronger voice. Message boards like this are a great start but that is part of the reason why I'm organizing the get together. No matter what your opinion of TFC fans, they are united and organized when it matters.

TFC fans view the Argos as a threat, probably why they are so negative towards the Argos. Raptors fans have been taking it for years, and continue to do so, yet they don't seem to mind the Argos TFC, Blue Jays.

Though TFC fans viewed the Argos as a threat to the atmosphere of BMO Field they are currently not one and why are many Argo fans so negative towards TFC and their fans? I still don't understand the point of your post though. Are you trying to justify stupid statements such as this:

Whats a TFC ? is it an organization that hopes to last longer then the Blizzard ?

by Argos fans towards TFC and their fans because Raptors fans have been "taking it for years" and they don't retaliate against the Argos, TFC, Blue Jays? So that makes it ok?

[R.J]

It was just a joke T-Bone, I don't think the Argos were only a threat to TFC fans because of BMO, TFC knows that they are the lowest on the totem pole, only above the Rock at this point, so everything at or above TFC is a threat. If Bmo were originally built as mulit-purpose I'm sure soccer fans would still complain and wonder why they're being treated so (not having their "own home"). However IMO TFC just like the Raptors are not as strong as they appear, MLSE's Ownership is a big reason why both seem to sell "well".

[T-Bone]

I don't think the Argos were only a threat to TFC fans because of BMO

How else were the Argos a threat to TFC fans?

TFC knows that they are the lowest on the totem pole, only above the Rock at this point, so everything at or above TFC is a threat. If Bmo were originally built as mulit-purpose I'm sure soccer fans would still complain and wonder why they're being treated so (not having their "own home"). However IMO TFC just like the Raptors are not as strong as they appear, MLSE's Ownership is a big reason why both seem to sell "well".

You're entitled to your opinions but I prefer to deal with facts not imaginary totem poles.

[R.J]

How else were the Argos a threat to TFC fans?

You're entitled to your opinions but I prefer to deal with facts not imaginary totem poles.

Imaginary totems poles ? You seriously think that TFC is anywhere near the popularity and media coverage as The Raps, Jays, Leafs or even the Argos ? Yeah, TFC might have a more vocal fan base, and go "strong" to games, but the TV numbers are horrible even lower then the Raps. The Media rarely even brings up TFC let alone the MLS. How else were the Argos a threat its very simple, when TSN signed the MLS TV contract all TFC fans were talking about how "hopefully we get the same coverage as the CFL", which didn't happen. The Argos are a threat, because of what they are and mean to this country, soccer fans always complain about being kicked aside and for some reason like to look down upon the CFL. Yet the CFL is very clearly the number 2 Pro Football league in the world and MLS is what 88th ?

[T-Bone]

Imaginary totems poles ? You seriously think that TFC is anywhere near the popularity and media coverage as The Raps, Jays, Leafs or even the Argos ? Yeah, TFC might have a more vocal fan base, and go "strong" to games, but the TV numbers are horrible even lower then the Raps. The Media rarely even brings up TFC let alone the MLS. How else were the Argos a threat its very simple, when TSN signed the MLS TV contract all TFC fans were talking about how "hopefully we get the same coverage as the CFL", which didn't happen. The Argos are a threat, because of what they are and mean to this country, soccer fans always complain about being kicked aside and for some reason like to look down upon the CFL.

So you're saying the Argos are a threat to TFC fans because the Argos are more popular than TFC. The only criteria for popularity you use in your post above appears to be TV ratings though you provide no actual stats. I've seen TV ratings comparisons of the two teams and in this case you are correct that the Argos are more popular than TFC in the TV ratings. However popularity is a subjective standard by which to measure something. I would argue that TV ratings alone do not determine the popularity of a sports team and that other criteria should be considered in the debate. Perhaps season ticket holder numbers, ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc. but I'm not interested in popularity contests.

Yet the CFL is very clearly the number 2 Pro Football league in the world and MLS is what 88th ?

I don't know where you pulled those numbers from but your statement proves nothing as it is missing crucial data. How many professional football leagues are there in the world? How many professional soccer leagues are there in the world? If you want to compare the two sports on a global scale using your criteria of TV ratings for popularity then soccer is a far more popular sport than football. Like I said though, I'm not interested in popularity contests.

[Mulder]

While I love a good debate, Please keep it civil and follow the rules.

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.p...om-Forum-Rules

specifically

1. Personal attacks are not tolerated. It is possible to disagree without personally insulting fellow posters. Lets show respect for fellow posters just as we would on the street. Threatening ARGO FANS members with phsyical violence will not be tolerated.

5. "Trolling" and "fishing" is not tolerated. "Trolling" or "fishing" by definition, means to make a post that goes against the grain, not because it is a true opinion, but to get a negative reaction and cause a disruption to the forum.

8. Fans of all teams are allowed and encouraged to post here and shall not be harassed, bullied, demeaned, treated like an inferior, or felt unwelcome based on anything in relation to the politics of what a "true fan" is. This includes, but is not limited to money and leisure time (or lack there of) committed to their favorite CFL team(s).

[argonaut11xx]

hmmm....its a heated debate for sure...

that said...Soccer is retarded....and boring

[R.J]

Please boot me out then or ban me then.

[T-Bone]

Please boot me out then or ban me then.

I don't believe your previous post violated the rules and that Mulder's warning was directed at you alone. I believe it is a general warning to everyone as there have already been a few posts deleted in this thread as they clearly violated the rules.

[argonaut11xx]

I bow before the MIGHTY Toronto Soccer Club.... i have been humbled.....

[Will]

Look, nobody is telling you that you have to love TFC. I've been to a few games and enjoyed them, but wouldn't call myself a committed fan.However, it is the duty of EVERYONE participating in the thread to keep things civil. Threads about soccer have been controversial on the old site and this one and this one was no different.

Furthermore, a moderator would step in if a thread got contentious no matter the topic. Don't think Mulder is just here to silence criticism of soccer.

[argonaut11xx]

I completely understand....no worries...while we can bash each other's opinions, bash the argo's when they are not performing...its hands off the soccer team....

makes perfect sence to me.....

Go Argo's....

hehe

[R.J]

I completely understand....no worries...while we can bash each other's opinions, bash the argo's when they are not performing...its hands off the soccer team....

makes perfect sense to me.....

Go Argo's....

hehe

Actually we can't even bash the Argos, it's too NEGATIVE and the site might be shut down. Everything has to be sunshine and roses. BTW since when did the internet become a place where people lose freedom of speech, I'd understand if someone is being threatened or attacked or there is continuous swearing from a poster etc, aside from that I just don't get it.

[argonaut11xx]

Hey SnowRogue....

the sun is shining brightly today......why?...

the toronto soccer team is having an outdoor practice, of course....

[T-Bone]

Actually we can't even bash the Argos, it's too NEGATIVE and the site might be shut down. Everything has to be sunshine and roses.

I don't believe that is the case. There is a difference between bashing and constructive criticism. Constructive criticism encourages discussion and that is good, bashing does not.

BTW since when did the internet become a place where people lose freedom of speech, I'd understand if someone is being threatened or attacked or there is continuous swearing from a poster etc, aside from that I just don't get it.

There is also a difference between saying whatever you want and freedom of speech. Freedom of speech has its limits. There is a reason we have laws to prevent hate speech. In this case by signing up to this forum you agree to follow the rules that are laid out and if moderators feel a post is out of line they have the right to delete it.

I completely understand....no worries...while we can bash each other's opinions, bash the argo's when they are not performing...its hands off the soccer team....

makes perfect sence to me.....

Go Argo's....

hehe

Again there is a difference between bashing and constructive criticism. I assume your posts were deleted because they were hateful statements that did not encourage further discussion. You believe soccer is "retarded and boring." You're entitled to that opinion but how does that opinion further discussion? What is the point in posting it in a thread about soccer? I personally don't post in threads unless I feel my post furthers discussion or adds value of some sort. I'm not a big fan of curling but I wouldn't go out of my way to express my opinion that it is boring on a forum or thread about it. I respect the fact that other people enjoy the sport and that my opinion doesn't matter to them.