Toronto FC

[Ballstothewall]

18,143 at BMO to watch Toronto FC clinch a playoff spot. That's not even a good Argo crowd and is not even a full house at BMO feild before expansion renovations in it's original stage. Nice goal though, Giovinco is far too good for the MLS and imo wasting his peak years playing soccer in North America. He is being paid well though as a designated player.

Credit to Kurtis Larson for the attendance reference, even though I can't stand this prick's comments about the Argos, I'll attribute my sources.

How can you credit Kurt Larson. Here is the difference on how the media treats TFC vs the Argos. My argument has always been that the media for TFC are more fans then reporters. Larson story in the Sun today was and I quote. " it was a memorable night for home supporters who FILLED Saputo Stadium to the brim. He thenchanged it on his online story, to " I near capacity crowd". Now we all know if the Argos got 18,000 in a 21'000 seat stadium for a playoff game, the story would read." A disappointing crowd of only 18,000 bothered to turn out for a playoff game. And anyone who does not think that is nuts

[Gill The Thrill]

How can you credit Kurt Larson. Here is the difference on how the media treats TFC vs the Argos. My argument has always been that the media for TFC are more fans then reporters. Larson story in the Sun today was and I quote. " it was a memorable night for home supporters who FILLED Saputo Stadium to the brim. He thenchanged it on his online story, to " I near capacity crowd". Now we all know if the Argos got 18,000 in a 21'000 seat stadium for a playoff game, the story would read." A disappointing crowd of only 18,000 bothered to turn out for a playoff game. And anyone who does not think that is nuts

Can you read the date of that post and why I was referencing Larson? The hell's a matter with you. My post has nothing to do with yesterday's game, and the points you mentioned have already been mentioned. I couldn't agree more as I've pointed out...did you not read the part that says why I can't stand the prick... You're preaching to choir.

[Ballstothewall]

Can you read the date of that post and why I was referencing Larson? The hell's a matter with you. My post has nothing to do with yesterday's game, and the points you mentioned have already been mentioned. I couldn't agree more as I've pointed out...did you not read the part that says why I can't stand the prick... You're preaching to choir.

I don't read posts about TFC I skim them. Relax, numnuts, we are in the same choir

[T-Bone]

I don't read posts about TFC I skim them.

It shows and since that's the case please stop posting in this thread and pulling it off topic. Thank you.

[Ballstothewall]

It shows and since that's the case please stop posting in this thread and pulling it off topic. Thank you.

Just answer the question Tbone. If the Argos got 18,000 in a 21,000 stadium, would the story be written by the T.O media, that the stadium was filled to the brim, or a near capacity crowd watched. Or would it read a Dissapointing crowd of only 18,000 attend the Argo playoff game. Give me your honest answer, I will never darken the TFC page again

[Scooter McCray]

I need an education about MLS and it's economics. I read today in the Toronto Star that the MLS commissioner values TFC at $175 million. The average league attendance is 21,500.

Why are they worth $175 million? What is the MLS league TV deal worth to each team? Gate receipts can't add up to much. We know the Argos are not worth much, but how can TFC be worth this much? I know their corporate sponsorships are $30 million but that is only because they are part of MLSE. TV numbers are a fraction of CFL numbers, attendance is the same as CFL teams.

Curious.

[Ron]

I need an education about MLS and it's economics. I read today in the Toronto Star that the MLS commissioner values TFC at $175 million. The average league attendance is 21,500.

Why are they worth $175 million? What is the MLS league TV deal worth to each team? Gate receipts can't add up to much. We know the Argos are not worth much, but how can TFC be worth this much? I know their corporate sponsorships are $30 million but that is only because they are part of MLSE. TV numbers are a fraction of CFL numbers, attendance is the same as CFL teams.

Curious.

- The TV deal is $US90 mil per season for MLS. How it's divided between teams and players I don't know.

- TFC plays 17 home game + friendlies. So for argument sake they have more than double a CFL teams home dates. (Thus double revenues +)

- TFC makes good $$ from concessions and other avenues (like kit)

- You.ve already said they make $30 mil from sponsorship alone. (that's 2-3 years total revenues of the CFL's richest team, the Riders)

add it up the $175 ain't too far off.

[R.J]

Corporate revenue for TFC is $21 million according to Rick Westhead, how did it suddenly turn into $30 million ?

[AngeloV]

Corporate revenue for TFC is $21 million according to Rick Westhead, how did it suddenly turn into $30 million ?

And the salaries they pay out are likely 20M minimum. How a team that makes no money can be valued at $175M makes you wonder how valiud any of these valuations really are. You can ask for $175M, but there is no chance anyone would spend that if if it was on the open market.

[Scooter McCray]

And without MLSE they don't get their 20 Million in sponsorships. The 90 million TV is split 20 ways or 4.5 million per team. So they are not worth 175 million then. Plus the rest of the league do not have the MLSE largesse to share which means that valuation has no basis. A future owner could not buy the team and replicate 20 Million in corporate sponsors. The TV money is the same as CFL.

Peddle never wanted the Argos because of its economics. But TFC economics are no better. MLSE can make any team successful because they leverage Maple Leaf success to do so with the corporate community.

[R.J]

And the salaries they pay out are likely 20M minimum. How a team that makes no money can be valued at $175M makes you wonder how valiud any of these valuations really are. You can ask for $175M, but there is no chance anyone would spend that if if it was on the open market.

I remember hearing Naylor and someone else discussing this awhile ago on TSN Drive, from their explanation, the team valuations are based on future potential, because there's no way MLS teams are worth what the MLS claims.

And without MLSE they don't get their 20 Million in sponsorships. The 90 million TV is split 20 ways or 4.5 million per team. So they are not worth 175 million then. Plus the rest of the league do not have the MLSE largesse to share which means that valuation has no basis. A future owner could not buy the team and replicate 20 Million in corporate sponsors. The TV money is the same as CFL.

All of the $90 million doesn't go to the MLS and it's teams, a chunk of it goes to the U.S Soccer Federation.

Peddle never wanted the Argos because of its economics. But TFC economics are no better. MLSE can make any team successful because they leverage Maple Leaf success to do so with the corporate community.

So if Bell and Tanenbaum use MLSE to help prop up the Argonauts, is it still bad ?

[Scooter McCray]

MLSE don't own the Argos though. But I do hope that Bell and Kilmer Group leverage their resources fully to get full present and future value out of the Argos. That would help football out in Canada in a sustainable way.

[R.J]

MLSE don't own the Argos though. But I do hope that Bell and Kilmer Group leverage their resources fully to get full present and future value out of the Argos. That would help football out in Canada in a sustainable way.

You're right they don't, but 2/3's of MLSE owns the Argonauts, and Tanenbaum acknowledged (during the press conference) that MLSE resources would be used to operate the Argonauts.

[Scooter McCray]

You're right they don't, but 2/3's of MLSE owns the Argonauts, and Tanenbaum acknowledged (during the press conference) that MLSE resources would be used to operate the Argonauts.

Until Rogers crap in the Argos one hand and steals their Christmas wishes from the other. I think you are right. I hope the corporate sponsorships are where the real inroads are made. If they put on a good show next year we should see that bounce back in a real way. If TFC are able to generate 20 Million why not the Argos with much higher national profile.

[paulwoods13]

This recent column by Cathal Kelly -- a TFC booster if there ever was one -- would be chilling if I were a TFC fan:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle27556061/

[T-Bone]

This recent column by Cathal Kelly -- a TFC booster if there ever was one -- would be chilling if I were a TFC fan:

Typical Cathal Kelly. He makes some valid points but I'm not worried TFC is going anywhere.

[paulwoods13]

Typical Cathal Kelly. He makes some valid points but I'm not worried TFC is going anywhere.

I'm not, either, but I think MLSE should be worried they may have missed their moment to really grow the business. Altho the "new" stadium should help just as it will help the Argos. What I'd be worried about if I were an MLSE exec is the possibility that fan passions are no longer stirrable to the extent that seemed possible on the day when Dafoe was announced.

[T-Bone]

I'm not, either, but I think MLSE should be worried they may have missed their moment to really grow the business.

Had the Jays not been on the playoff hunt and didn't make the playoffs I think TFC would have gotten a lot more attention as Kelly pointed out. I along with 20 other people missed the first half of TFC's game where they clinched their first ever playoff spot because we were watching Jose flip his bat. With that said I don't hate or blame the Jays for making the playoffs and grabbing the spotlight it was just unfortunate timing for TFC.

Altho the "new" stadium should help just as it will help the Argos.

It probably will but I'm not sure how much for TFC, more so for the Argos in my opinion.

What I'd be worried about if I were an MLSE exec is the possibility that fan passions are no longer stirrable to the extent that seemed possible on the day when Dafoe was announced.

Maybe, unfortunately the Defoe experiment was a failure but anyone that looks a little into will realize it was Defoe himself that made it fail. He was unprofessional off the field and in the end I was glad to see him go. If Giovinco sticks around a few more years I think things can change for TFC. It was a pleasure to watch him play this past season. One man does not make a team though and the playoff game proved that. The team still needs some work, particularly on the defensive side. Toronto is a competitive sports market place and TFC and the Argos face similar challenges being the underdog sports franchises in this city. I just hope off field management is up to the job for both teams.

[T-Bone]

NEWS: #TFC releases 2016 @MLS regular season schedule.

Details → https://t.co/AtPOfoGukG pic.twitter.com/gFHw0aGQBB

— Toronto FC (@torontofc) January 7, 2016

[1argoholic]

What a team is worth means squat in the long run. So TFC is supposedly worth that but they still put a horrible product on the field. Look at what the Jays and Leafs are worth. What have they won lately? SQUAT!!!! People in TO are way too messed up and believe that money makes things of better quality when it comes to sport. The two teams that get no respect in the Argonauts and Rock have given sports fans way more to cheer about in the last number of years while the big money franchises continue to be huge disappointments. Someone is lining their pockets win or lose.