21,000 is great but...

[Will]

In 2017 the Argos drew 24,000 for the east final against Saskatchewan, and that was largely a pro-Argo crowd. But, many of those fans did/will not return for regular season games. The 8-28 record in 2018-2019 won't help.

Sure there were a lot of Ticat fans there today, but there were more Argo fans than the 6-8k they'd been average all year so what does the team do to try and get these people out in 2022? I'm just wondering if they could engage these individuals and see what'll get them out more often.

[Topshelf]

Had this game been on a Saturday i couldve got at least 5 friends out. CFL can not compete with the NFL, switch to Saturdays.....
As for regular season, expect low crowds again next year. Issue is there will be too much competition for entertainment money. Budgets are already stretched, after 2 years away, every option, from concerts to travel, to places like Wonderland will be pushing hard for your dollars. Even just sports, both TFC and the Jays will have a big head start in winning back fans.

[shayman]

For everybody who says "switch to Saturdays", there's somebody else who says "Switch to Sundays", or "Friday nights are best". I don't think there will ever be consensus on the best day of the week. (Or on starting the season earlier.)

Lots of people, I think, want changes that benefit themselves personally. (you often hear "They should move the team to {Barrie,Mississauga,Oshawa,Guelph}" which - even ignoring that there's no facility there - is usually an indication that they live in Barrie, Mississauga, Oshawa or Guelph.)

Gotta consider how many people any proposed change would alienate or lose, too.


BTW Mike Hogan on his postgame show on Sunday urged people to contact him with suggestions on improving the experience. I hope people take him up on that.

[Topshelf]

I think regular season is scheduled fine. But all of the sudden in the playoffs they switch to Sundays. Friday nights are great, but playoffs a saturday afternoon double header would be perfect.
I'd love to see the Argos lobby for tailgating. Like true tailgating, not the corporate version.
Friends that go to Hamilton games enjoy it. BMO should easily be able to have it on the CNE lots. Right now fans could smoke weed out there, but they cant grill some food and have a beer.

[Brian45]

I think regular season is scheduled fine. But all of the sudden in the playoffs they switch to Sundays. Friday nights are great, but playoffs a saturday afternoon double header would be perfect.
I'd love to see the Argos lobby for tailgating. Like true tailgating, not the corporate version.
Friends that go to Hamilton games enjoy it. BMO should easily be able to have it on the CNE lots. Right now fans could smoke weed out there, but they cant grill some food and have a beer.

There was at least 1000 to 1500 fans tailgating yesterday in the south lot between BMO and Lakeshore. I was one of them and all the buddies I brought loved it. This needs to be grown. There was bbqs, byob beer, music and all the usual stuff you see in Hamilton or Buffalo. Tailgating is is legal now if a permit is obtained, or of course if logic prevails and authorities don't interfere with people having fun and not causing problems.

The league also tried the Saturday playoffs in 2008 (CIS moved to Sunday) but it was quickly changed back. Not sure if it was the NHL or what but they weren't keen to keep it. I don't think the day of the week is what keeps people away in Toronto. They just need to find a way to create a buzz and get 18-22k per game.

[ArgoRavi]

Argos draw their largest crowd, by far on a Sunday and CFL blows the NFL away in the TV ratings but Sunday is a problem? I think that a problem is Bell/TSN/CTV ceding Sundays to the NFL.

[OV Argo]

Argos draw their largest crowd, by far on a Sunday and CFL blows the NFL away in the TV ratings but Sunday is a problem? I think that a problem is Bell/TSN/CTV ceding Sundays to the NFL.

Exactly right Ravi - and part of the huge problem the CFL and Canadian football faces in it's own country = sad.

[paulwoods13]

Argos draw their largest crowd, by far on a Sunday and CFL blows the NFL away in the TV ratings but Sunday is a problem? I think that a problem is Bell/TSN/CTV ceding Sundays to the NFL.

The only way to test that theory would be to put two routine regular-season games up against the NFL. Playoff games, especially involving bitter rivals, are always going to do better than regular-season games do. Let's see how the CFL draws for an Ott-Edm game in mid-September on a Sunday afternoon.

[AngeloV]

Argos draw their largest crowd, by far on a Sunday and CFL blows the NFL away in the TV ratings but Sunday is a problem? I think that a problem is Bell/TSN/CTV ceding Sundays to the NFL.

Hard to say they blow away the NFL on Sunday ratings. CTV has regional broadcasts, so you would have to combine all the viewers of the regional broadcasts at 1pm to get a true answer here. Do the Argos on a Sunday afternoon get a bigger audience in the local market than the Bills do? That would be a more accurate comparison. But since CTV has rights for both products, the can really own the time slot if they put up a CFL game, at the same time.

[ArgoRavi]

Hard to say they blow away the NFL on Sunday ratings. CTV has regional broadcasts, so you would have to combine all the viewers of the regional broadcasts at 1pm to get a true answer here. Do the Argos on a Sunday afternoon get a bigger audience in the local market than the Bills do? That would be a more accurate comparison. But since CTV has rights for both products, the can really own the time slot if they put up a CFL game, at the same time.

I meant that they blew the NFL away this past Sunday.

I found this interesting tidbit in The Athletic today:

"The current broadcast agreement with American broadcasters ESPN, FOX and Univision pays MLS just $90 million per year; the league brings in an additional $15 million per season from Canadian broadcasters TSN and TVA Sports."

I am shocked, assuming that TSN pays the majority of that $15 million, that the MLS is getting that much money for very low viewership in Canada. I don't think that's far off what TSN pays the CFL annually and MLS even gets the occasional game on CTV.

[Will]

I love the CFL, I love the NFL.

Why make me choose?

[SkalbaniasGhost]

"The current broadcast agreement with American broadcasters ESPN, FOX and Univision pays MLS just $90 million per year; the league brings in an additional $15 million per season from Canadian broadcasters TSN and TVA Sports."

I am shocked, assuming that TSN pays the majority of that $15 million, that the MLS is getting that much money for very low viewership in Canada. I don't think that's far off what TSN pays the CFL annually and MLS even gets the occasional game on CTV.

Why be shocked? They value the MLS product. They wish to super serve that particular audience. The question is how much more of a raise are they going to give them? We will get that answer in the next three months. So much for that trusted partner as Randy will say multiple times in the next few days.

[OV Argo]

Why be shocked? They value the MLS product. They wish to super serve that particular audience. The question is how much more of a raise are they going to give them? We will get that answer in the next three months. So much for that trusted partner as Randy will say multiple times in the next few days.

Yep !

If some media companies, TV broadcasters and assorted other media people/journalists in this country $ucked-up to and bent-over for the CFL & Canadian football like they do for the NHL, NFL, the Raptors & Jays and even MLS and now international soccer, the CFL (and U Sports ball) would be way more popular (not to mention get more revenue) in it's own country.

[AngeloV]

I meant that they blew the NFL away this past Sunday.

I found this interesting tidbit in The Athletic today:

"The current broadcast agreement with American broadcasters ESPN, FOX and Univision pays MLS just $90 million per year; the league brings in an additional $15 million per season from Canadian broadcasters TSN and TVA Sports."

I am shocked, assuming that TSN pays the majority of that $15 million, that the MLS is getting that much money for very low viewership in Canada. I don't think that's far off what TSN pays the CFL annually and MLS even gets the occasional game on CTV.

Does it really matter how the money gets distributed? Also, the way the MLS is set up, I think all TV revenues are split between all their teams.
Fact is they still pay more than 3 times that amount for CFL rights, so they obviously see it as a more important property.

[Mocha]

Does it really matter how the money gets distributed? Also, the way the MLS is set up, I think all TV revenues are split between all their teams.
Fact is they still pay more than 3 times that amount for CFL rights, so they obviously see it as a more important property.

But does it add up?

The CFL, I believe, provides TSN with many more games at several times the ratings. All things being equal, the CFL rights should be worth much more than 3 times the MLS rights.

So, what is the CFL doing wrong that they can't actually garner much more than 3 times the amount the MLS gets?

[OV Argo]

But does it add up?

The CFL, I believe, provides TSN with many more games at several times the ratings. All things being equal, the CFL rights should be worth much more than 3 times the MLS rights.

So, what is the CFL doing wrong that they can't actually garner much more than 3 times the amount the MLS gets?

The CFL has made the big mistake of being an only in Canada (teams/cities) league; this is not good enough for bean counters, media giants and all sorts of other wannabes up here. Only in Canada eh; pity

Could you imagine the English Premier soccer league falling into poverty and lower popularity in Merry Olde, while their media and assorted joe average fans get told/sold that league is not cool or "major league" anymore, so let's $uck-up to Italian or Spanish pro soccer or maybe broadcast and watch more NFL games instead ? Bloody hell, eh ? ;o)

[Topshelf]

Soccer is a good example. Look how the lower European domestic leagues operate as a guide. CFL keeps kinda looking to NFL, when say the Scottish Premier league may be better in terms of market size.
Or, how do rugby leagues, gaelic football, hurling, etc, operate successfully?
If operational costs were lowered, maybe a team becomes feasible in Halifax, Quebec City, London ON, Saskatoon.
The XFL rumors show that MLSE isnt fond of the CFL. So why not go with a grassroots approach?

[Shatto]

TSN is paying 15M for MLS TV rights in Canada!!! 15M for a league that practically nobody watches on TV---What? Haven't been able to find the Canadian TV ratings for MLS this year but if previous years were any indication, it drew about 1/10 of the average CFL game. This only demonstrates TSN is paying drastically below what they should be paying --the 50M contact should be at least doubled.

If a minor soccer league like MLS can warrant 15m then the CFL certainly deserves far more than 50M.

[paulwoods13]

I'm sure this opinion won't be popular, but rights are worth what someone is prepared to pay for them. I don't think there were any other bidders for the CFL the last few times the deal came up for renewal. IMO a better case could be made that Bell overpaid for CFL rights than the opposite. Bell definitely overpaid for MLS rights, given the weak ratings, but there might have been a competing bidder (Rogers) in that case, which would affect the buyer's willingness to bid it up.

[AngeloV]

I'm sure this opinion won't be popular, but rights are worth what someone is prepared to pay for them. I don't think there were any other bidders for the CFL the last few times the deal came up for renewal. IMO a better case could be made that Bell overpaid for CFL rights than the opposite. Bell definitely overpaid for MLS rights, given the weak ratings, but there might have been a competing bidder (Rogers) in that case, which would affect the buyer's willingness to bid it up.

I agree Paul. Just because they are likely overpaying for MLS rights, doesn't mean they should do the same for CFL rights. A lot goes into numbers, specifically demographics. If the small MLS ratings are comparable to the CFL's in the key 25-54 demographic, that can justify what they are paying for MLS rights when compared to the CFL's. Perhaps they are grossly overpaying for MLS rights as opposed to just overpaying for CFL rights.