Argos outdrew Toronto FC at BMO Field, and massively on TV this year

[Argobouncer]

Interesting that if you remove the playoff game, the Argos averaged nearly identical numbers to Toronto FC. If you include the playoff game of 21,492, the Argos "averaged" 20% more fans per game this year - 10215/game for the Argos vs 8608/game for Toronoto FC

Credit @ Ben Carter on Twitter.


TV ratings also about 10x higher - this is commonplace

[AngeloV]

Not going to get too excited about this. Argos were a good team all year, TFC was already pretty much out of the playoffs before they got the green light to return home. TV numbers are no surprise as the CFL is watched across the country no matter what teams are playing, while MLS probably only is watched if by the home market of the team that is playing that day.

Bottom line, MLSE has a lot to do in terms of getting crowds out to Argos games.

[Treblecharger1]

Although correct, With my TFC season tickets I had the option to keep my money on credit and not loose my seat location for 2022. If I wanted to go to a TFC game in 2021 I could use my credit money towards tickets but not for the same seat. I have a feeling you will see Toronto FC's attendance corrected next season. Just like with the Argos I think you will see our number go back to the 12 to 15k range due to group sales. As long as all this covid mess is cleaned up.. We shall see

[ArgoRavi]

If the Argos can even get back to consistently drawing 15k per game, then that would be a good start on the road back.

[Will]

If the Argos can even get back to consistently drawing 15k per game, then that would be a good start on the road back.

Which is why the eastern final loss was so disappointing. Not to say that a Grey Cup appearance (and potential win) would've all of a sudden put 15,000 butts in the seats, but having said that it would've resulted in another week of hype/promotion for the team. Instead we got some Ticat fans acting like doofaces.

[jerrym]

I have a feeling you will see Toronto FC's attendance corrected next season. Just like with the Argos I think you will see our number go back to the 12 to 15k range due to group sales. As long as all this covid mess is cleaned up.. We shall see

I hope you're right, but making assumptions about Covid has brought a lot of people grief in the last two years.

[Topshelf]

We have to end this TFC thing. And i say that as a TFC SSH. The teams have 2 different primary sets of supporters. There is no competition between the two clubs, unless we're talking about MLSE resources.
Argos ratings are always a bit different because it's nation wide. So for TFC we'd have to include the US audience of the opposition.
For attendance, both teams had their challenges after missing a full year with fans. If TFC signs Insigne crowds will average 25k this summer. If not, youre down to the core 16k. And even if its 8k it doesnt affect the Argos, just like the only argos impact for TFC is additional wear and tear on the field.

[ArgoZ]

We have to end this TFC thing. as a TFC SSH.

If TFC fans can stop chanting “F U Argos” at games, (yes, that’s a literal chant) maybe we can end this. It’s a one sided childish affair as far as I’m concerned and any comments from Argo fans is only pushback.

[Shatto]

The problem is complete lack of Canadian interest in TFC games on TV. Even when it plays another Canadian team like the Whitecaps, the game still cant draw flies. With the lack of in-stadium fans becoming a problem, MLSE is going to work hard if the club is to make a profit.

Will MLSE eventual come to the realization that the only way to make a good profit from their investment in the franchise, is to sell it to a deep pocketed US investor who will transfer the team to a US southern city.

I hope not, as the city is richer for having TFC playing here. We have an eclectic mix of fans in the GTA, who support all number of sports. I was hoping the Toronto Wolfpack rugby team would thrive and give us one more top class sport to cheer for.

[argolio]

The problem is complete lack of Canadian interest in TFC games on TV. Even when it plays another Canadian team like the Whitecaps, the game still cant draw flies. With the lack of in-stadium fans becoming a problem, MLSE is going to work hard if the club is to make a profit.

Will MLSE eventual come to the realization that the only way to make a good profit from their investment in the franchise, is to sell it to a deep pocketed US investor who will transfer the team to a US southern city.

I hope not, as the city is richer for having TFC playing here. We have an eclectic mix of fans in the GTA, who support all number of sports. I was hoping the Toronto Wolfpack rugby team would thrive and give us one more top class sport to cheer for.

Now that there's an independent Canadian pro soccer league, I don't get why MLS isn't working to kick out TFC, Montreal and Vancouver. They're a drag on maximizing American broadcast revenues, and FIFA has been pretty militant about not wanting club teams to play in the league of another country (except for a few really small countries). MLS will also have to deal with more border issues if Covid drags on.

[AngeloV]

Now that there's an independent Canadian pro soccer league, I don't get why MLS isn't working to kick out TFC, Montreal and Vancouver. They're a drag on maximizing American broadcast revenues, and FIFA has been pretty militant about not wanting club teams to play in the league of another country (except for a few really small countries). MLS will also have to deal with more border issues if Covid drags on.

If this ever was to happen, pro soccer would be dead in Toronto. Let's be honest, casual sports fans in Toronto are attracted to athletes that make millions. They have no interest in athletes that may make less than they do, and likely question whether or not they are really professional. Sad, but IMO true of the attitude in this city.

[OV Argo]

If this ever was to happen, pro soccer would be dead in Toronto. Let's be honest, casual sports fans in Toronto are attracted to athletes that make millions. They have no interest in athletes that may make less than they do, and likely question whether or not they are really professional. Sad, but IMO true of the attitude in this city.

Maybe Canadian pro (only in Canada) football, or soccer, or baseball leagues will never draw huge crowds or a huge following of "world class" sheep , who need media hype galore or millionaire, preening athletes to follow a team/league. But in a demographic of 5 million people or more to draw from, ANY of those sports should be able to retain a fan base and cultivate lots of new fans - to the tune of 20K plus attendance for a weekly game (or a series as in baseball) - IMO only of course. And Canadian football is a long established, historic national sport (and soccer is not) - invented here and played here at many levels for over 100 years - so it has that base; and smart marketing should be harping on this fact (over & over again) along with all sorts of other efforts/ tricks to attract and keep paying customers.

And BTW are you saying most people in the GTA make more than an average CFL player does in a little more than half a year's work ? They should be able to attend and support all kind of sports teams/leagues if that is the case. Lots of people survive or get by on or have to make do with minimum wage or not that much more these days - and by my quick calculation, full-time work at current Ontario minimum wage would net you about 32K a year nowdays - so a lot of these people look down their noses at some pro athletes who make more than double than they do in a year (and for 6 or 7 months work in a job you love) ??? Whatever.

[bannedforlife]

We have to end this TFC thing. And i say that as a TFC SSH. The teams have 2 different primary sets of supporters. There is no competition between the two clubs, unless we're talking about MLSE resources. just like the only argos impact for TFC is additional wear and tear on the field.

I agree that the (for lack of a better word) "feud" has to end, but it has always been pretty one sided. The Argos have hardly been in a position to lord it over anyone. Traditionally, many TFC fans seemed to believe a way to a higher visibility was to bring somebody else down to their level. Before the Argos moved to BMO the target was usually "fat, out of shape" baseball players, they knew they could never take on hockey. That all changed when the Argos moved to BMO and they became number one on the hit list with a vengeance. The most popular threads at RPB were hate Argo threads, by far. Ok, now that the history is out of the way how about some myth busting.

I am talking about the myth that it is football causing the most damage to the BMO turf.

John Torres, the head groundskeeper at Philadelphia's PPL park hosted a seminar called "Playing Surface Management" This was by an expert talking to other experts in the field with no discernible financial stake.

PPL park is also interesting in that it hosts Football, Lacrosse, Rugby and other random events. John Torres, PPL Park's head groundskeeper, went to Ohio State then worked for the Crew - whose field quality has long been highly regarded. Torres has been part of the groundskeeping crews for the last three US/Mexico games in Columbus

January 17 from TweetDeck
Torres says that, though it surprises some people, soccer does the most damage to a playing field of the sports he's worked with.


Tony Stones, Head Groundsman, Wembley Stadium

"We find most damage is caused by football (soccer) players digging in, turning quick, whereas an NFL game it's all solid, it's crunching together, Desso likes that, holds together well, it's when they're doing quick turns, your Rugby Union you get a bit of quick turning in that as well and a bit of scrummaging so you get a bit of mess from that but I'd say most damage comes from football (soccer)"

"It's warmups, football (soccer) warmups that are the worst thing, that's where we get the most damage from, especially the goalkeepers that will not use his portable goal, they insist on using his main goal that creates us some serious trouble"

https://youtu.be/yHNxCzUBnNQ?t=53

[bannedforlife]

If the Argos can even get back to consistently drawing 15k per game, then that would be a good start on the road back.

It's too bad the fans seem to sit in the seats behind the main follow TV camera. I watched the Eastern final and that stand was full.