Which municipality have most CFL-Argos fans in GTA surrounding areas?

[CEO]

Where are the Argos fans at? Been told at meetings that AJAX, Pickering Beach, Oshawa is where most of the fans live. And Milton, Oakville is 2nd........ With so many people moving around this could be issue for Argos to get large season ticket numbers. Now that many people that are CFL fans are moving to Dundas, Hamilton area.


What are your thoughts?

[ArgofanIan]

I wish we could get one at least Saturday game at 4 o'clock to accommodate people from out of town. I think we play now at 7 ish to get tv numbers but I think one game should be at 4 PM to accommodate Out of towners, young families and tail gaters. That is my schedule rant.... LOL.

[Will]

The cost of living is pushing people out farther from city centre, although the cost of living is going up across the board so moving to some outer suburb isn't necessarily the cure-all right now.

Some people say the Argos need to move to the '905' well the '905' is a large area code that could mean Oshawa (as far east as Brighton) and as far south as Niagara Falls. Heck, Hamilton is a 905 area code.

[Mocha]

I wish we could get one at least Saturday game at 4 o'clock to accommodate people from out of town. I think we play now at 7 ish to get tv numbers but I think one game should be at 4 PM to accommodate Out of towners, young families and tail gaters. That is my schedule rant.... LOL.

Agreed. One should be the absolute minimum. I think that, especially in the fall, 4 pm (or even earlier) weekend games should be the norm. Let more kids be able to attend, as well as out-of-towners.

I'm not sure where most Argo fans are anymore. I live in Ottawa. Perhaps some shuttle bus service from Oshawa and Mississauga would help.

[paulwoods13]

I'm not sure where most Argo fans are anymore. I live in Ottawa. Perhaps some shuttle bus service from Oshawa and Mississauga would help.

This comes up periodically, here and elsewhere. The problem with the idea is that there are way more than just two communities surrounding Toronto. Buses from Mississauga and Oshawa wouldn't do anything for fans in Aurora, Newmarket, Pickering, Burlington, etc.

While the notion that most Argo fans live in the 905 region and not the 416 has become conventional wisdom (which may or may not be true), as everyone who lives here knows (and as was stated eloquently above), 905 is a massive region with many, many communities. Even if every single Argo fan lived in 905, I see no practical way to capitalize on that to drive increased sales.

[Mocha]

This comes up periodically, here and elsewhere. The problem with the idea is that there are way more than just two communities surrounding Toronto. Buses from Mississauga and Oshawa wouldn't do anything for fans in Aurora, Newmarket, Pickering, Burlington, etc.

While the notion that most Argo fans live in the 905 region and not the 416 has become conventional wisdom (which may or may not be true), as everyone who lives here knows (and as was stated eloquently above), 905 is a massive region with many, many communities. Even if every single Argo fan lived in 905, I see no practical way to capitalize on that to drive increased sales.

It would depend on the numbers in each area. But a shuttle from Mississauga (assuming there's easy parking nearby) would be of value for fans in Burlington, Milton, Oakville, etc. Yes, they'd still have to drive to wherever the bus is leaving from, but that would be easier and more affordable than driving all the way to BMO. The same goes for fans on the east side of the GTA. Maybe make the shuttle leave from Pickering, so it could serve fans from Ajax and Oshawa. Maybe one leaving from Richmond Hill could service the communties to the north. Here in Ottawa, there are shuttles from the suburbs to TD Place and they seem to be well used.

[paulwoods13]

I personally would see no value in driving as far as Mississauga and then getting on a bus for the rest of the journey. I'd still have to fight QEW traffic part of the way, and the bus would have to fight it the rest of the way. Even if there was no traffic at all (as if that ever happens), it would take me longer to get to the stadium using a two-tier approach. If I was going to drive, I'd just as soon drive all the way. Maybe others would happily use such a hybrid service, but I very much doubt enough would to justify the expense of creating it.

Fans in smaller cities like Ottawa and Regina often note how well shuttles work in those communities. They do indeed work -- in those communities. The GTA is a much different (and much, much bigger) beast; ideas that work well there do not necessarily translate to this market.

[Mocha]

I personally would see no value in driving as far as Mississauga and then getting on a bus for the rest of the journey. I'd still have to fight QEW traffic part of the way, and the bus would have to fight it the rest of the way. Even if there was no traffic at all (as if that ever happens), it would take me longer to get to the stadium using a two-tier approach. If I was going to drive, I'd just as soon drive all the way. Maybe others would happily use such a hybrid service, but I very much doubt enough would to justify the expense of creating it.

Fans in smaller cities like Ottawa and Regina often note how well shuttles work in those communities. They do indeed work -- in those communities. The GTA is a much different (and much, much bigger) beast; ideas that work well there do not necessarily translate to this market.

It's difficult to say unless they try it. But I think you're underestimating the value that shuttles bring: use of HOV lanes, savings on parking, fewer concerns about drinking at the game. If research shows that a good chunk of ST holders are out Oshawa way, for example, it might be worth a few trial runs.

[Mike Hogan]

Welcome CEO!

To get back to your question, we're in Whitby.

[OV Argo]

I personally would see no value in driving as far as Mississauga and then getting on a bus for the rest of the journey. I'd still have to fight QEW traffic part of the way, and the bus would have to fight it the rest of the way. Even if there was no traffic at all (as if that ever happens), it would take me longer to get to the stadium using a two-tier approach. If I was going to drive, I'd just as soon drive all the way. Maybe others would happily use such a hybrid service, but I very much doubt enough would to justify the expense of creating it.

Fans in smaller cities like Ottawa and Regina often note how well shuttles work in those communities. They do indeed work -- in those communities. The GTA is a much different (and much, much bigger) beast; ideas that work well there do not necessarily translate to this market.

Ottawa is - geographically speaking - one of the largest cities in North America; and not only are there several huge suburbs (Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven) well outside the city core (all these now served for RedBlacks game by the deal the team has with OC Transpo), but also a number of towns (Carleton Place, Almonte, Smith Falls, Arnprior, Renfrew for example) that are less than an hour drive and have historically been Ottawa sports team supporters; and not to mention the other side of the Ottawa River, with Quebec towns/people who are easily within RedBlacks attendance range.

A smart football team organization would make every effort possible to attract fans and help put bums in the seats (effort not needed really if the stadium is always SRO and with a season tickets waiting list). The RedBlacks deal with OC Transpo is quite well used from what I have seen - and it gets you back and forth to games from the suburbs faster than driving and having to park. This type of effort or under-taking may be beyond the capacity or ability of sports geniuses like MLSE however.

[paulwoods13]

A smart football team organization would make every effort possible to attract fans and help put bums in the seats (effort not needed really if the stadium is always SRO and with a season tickets waiting list).

Tell that to Carling O'Keefe in 1981. Wasn't quite sold out, and there likely was no waiting list for seasons tix, but the building was close to full every game. Not making an effort then was the beginning of the 40-year decline in interest.

[OV Argo]

Tell that to Carling O'Keefe in 1981. Wasn't quite sold out, and there likely was no waiting list for seasons tix, but the building was close to full every game. Not making an effort then was the beginning of the 40-year decline in interest.

Yep- the lack of marketing effort / resting on laurels, was likely a decent factor in Argo/CFL popularity, image decline.

One of many factors of course - competition from the Jays and later the Raptors; but also the sell-out of Canadian football by wannabes in the "world class" & "major league" Canadian & GTA media - who gleefully took to either lacking or negative or downright ignoring Argo/CFL coverage - that IMO is the biggest factor by far. We've had this discussion/ debate before of course. ;o)

One thing we see in Ottawa - to do with attracting or getting fans to sports events - is the practice of sports bars, mostly in the suburbs, renting a bus & driver and offering free or nominal charge transportation to the game/stadium; started with the Senators, but also used for RedBlacks games now (and I don't recall this at all in old days of attending Ottawa Rough Rider games; although i do recall some buses from small towns in the Valley bringing fans in); win for the bar who gets some customers for pre & post game meals and drinks (and maybe they become repeat customers). Does this practice exist much or at all in the GTA ? I get the feeling that sports bars (owners & staff) there and their wannabes and NFL fan-boy type customers might be offended by this offering = the CFL ??? - pffft?

[ArgofanIan]

LOL- I can confirm this. I am actually working in from Brighton these days... I am wearing my ARRGO hoodie around town...but home base is Scarborough... Got my season tickets... hope people who have the funds will get seasons... the team really needs the support... I miss a few games but its easy to give them to charity... going to try to donate some for the one of the CNE games....

The cost of living is pushing people out farther from city centre, although the cost of living is going up across the board so moving to some outer suburb isn't necessarily the cure-all right now.

Some people say the Argos need to move to the '905' well the '905' is a large area code that could mean Oshawa (as far east as Brighton) and as far south as Niagara Falls. Heck, Hamilton is a 905 area code.

[Dubya]

2 of us in Newmarket, we drive down and stop in Markham to pick up 2 more, then head across the 407 to the 427 to get to BMO

[argolio]

The general sentiments in this thread are pretty much why I was hoping for the York University stadium proposal to go through. A centralized stadium in the northern 416/southern 905 region would have taken the Argos out of the oppressive downtown Leafs/Raptors/Jays bubble and attracted more suburban fans, which is where the majority of Argo fans live.

Lost opportunity, unfortunately.

[Will]

The big albatross, IMO, to a centralized stadium where Argolio suggests is the expensive 407 that people would have to take to get to a stadium in southern York. Imagine people trying to funnel up Keele or Dufferin (for example) to get to a stadium near York University.

[paulwoods13]

York might be geographically "central," but it would effectively cut out any fans from outside the city who are not willing to either drive or stage a prolonged journey on at least two modes of public transit. Getting to York would at least double the length of time it currently takes me to get to games. Would I still go to every game if that became the case? Maybe, but I'd have to think long and hard about it. All fans who come in from East or West by GO Train would be faced with a similar choice. As I've said a million times, the only location in the GTA that can be easily and directly accessed from all parts of the region, by both highway and public transit, is downtown. BMO's slightly less convenient for subway users than SkyDome (and slightly more convenient for GO users), but the extra time spent on the streetcar from Union to BMO is a fraction of the extra time someone coming from east or west would spend taking the subway to York from Union. For those who prefer to drive (and can tolerate traffic), I imagine preference depends on the starting point. York might be preferred by those living east and north, BMO by those living west.

[Argo57]

York might be geographically "central," but it would effectively cut out any fans from outside the city who are not willing to either drive or stage a prolonged journey on at least two modes of public transit. Getting to York would at least double the length of time it currently takes me to get to games. Would I still go to every game if that became the case? Maybe, but I'd have to think long and hard about it. All fans who come in from East or West by GO Train would be faced with a similar choice. As I've said a million times, the only location in the GTA that can be easily and directly accessed from all parts of the region, by both highway and public transit, is downtown. BMO's slightly less convenient for subway users than SkyDome (and slightly more convenient for GO users), but the extra time spent on the streetcar from Union to BMO is a fraction of the extra time someone coming from east or west would spend taking the subway to York from Union. For those who prefer to drive (and can tolerate traffic), I imagine preference depends on the starting point. York might be preferred by those living east and north, BMO by those living west.

I agree Paul, nothing wrong with the location of BMO Field.
We travel from west of Burlington to attend games either by GO or car with no issues.
Personally I would have no interest in traveling to any location north of the city.

[Shatto]

[QUOTE=argolio;159073]The general sentiments in this thread are pretty much why I was hoping for the York University stadium proposal to go through. A centralized stadium in the northern 416/southern 905 region would have taken the Argos out of the oppressive downtown Leafs/Raptors/Jays bubble and attracted more suburban fans, which is where the majority of Argo fans live.

I would agree with this sentiment. Many people I know would go to Argo games if they didn't have to drive downtown, especially on a week day, when one has to battle rush hour traffic (if only it was just one hour!!) Several of my friends used to have season tickets but have given up going to see games because of the drive downtown. York would have been an excellent choice but the chance has been lost. There is a subway line going to the university and HWY 407 goes right by the area of the university. Yes, 407 is expensive but is quick and very seldom has heavy traffic. For the occasional trip it is well worth the cost.

For anyone working or living in the 905 region, the trip downtown on a week day is a real trial. Sometimes, I even ask myself if it is worth it---but then the love of the Argos prevails.

Oh well, I've been doing it for over 50 years, so I guess I will continue to battle the traffic.

[paulwoods13]

For anyone working or living in the 905 region, the trip downtown on a week day is a real trial. Sometimes, I even ask myself if it is worth it---but then the love of the Argos prevails.

But for many living and working in the 905 region, a trip to York on any day of the week would be a real ordeal. And as many have pointed out in the past, all the other teams' fans also have to get downtown for games (and they all seem to manage it, just as Argo fans like us do).