Is the CFL Screwing Canadian QBs #2

[bannedforlife]

/sarc

Why?

["Issues"Mcgee]

Why?

I'm not sure. I liked your post.

[OV Argo]

Why?

Why not ? ;o)

The good old "what conspiracy ?" schtick is a classic trump card to be played on this subject. Love it.

And as Ravi has pointed out - Chris Jones did give Brandon Bridge several opportunities to play for the Riders; but Bridge, like Yukon Cornelius, was a big 6-5 QB with mobility AND came with a Div I starter resume. We'll see if Ford gets written-off by Jones if he does not have even a decent game tonight - might be a "conspiracy" by Jones to have Ford set up to fail against a good Bummers team.

[bannedforlife]

Why not ? ;o)

The good old "what conspiracy ?" schtick is a classic trump card to be played on this subject. Love it.

I don't get it, can you explain what that has to do with the post?

[jerrym]

I don't know how tonight's game is going to turn out for Tre Ford, but at the beginning of the game the announcers mentioned Ford went 8/9 (but didn't mention the yardage) and ran for 30 yards. I tried to look up the stats on CFL.ca but they are missing for the preseason games, another example of a league mess-up that continued into the early season with stats. Some posters here kept noting that Jones had said Ford was on the PR because he had a terrible preseason. For me 8/9 doesn't sound horrid, although we don't have the full stats picture. However, Jones coaching overall has been horrid this year.

[jerrym]

Ford 12/16 for 189 yards and a TD and the interception and 5 carries for 50 yards. The interception was much more on the WR Moore who didn't come back to the ball and also allowed the ball come into chest causing it bounced over to Holm. The offence also seemed to be sparked by Ford's energy level to play better than have in a long time. However too many dumb penalties and a fumble by Brown on the next play immediately after Ford throws a 53 yard bomb were too costly to a team that does not have the luxury of making a lot of mistakes. Heh! but 12/16 isn't as good as 8/9 in completions and 30 yards rushing in a preseason game that Jones says was a terrible preseason. Bench the bum. The games announcers said that Ford complained during practice this week about a couple of the plays in the playbook that he felt weren't suited for him. Jarius Jackson said if you don't like them we'll take them out. The missing plays didn't seem to be the difference in the games and a young QB who questions Jones game approach is I suspect what was Jones view of Ford's 'terrible' preseason as Jones also said Ford came into camp with a bad attitude. Sometimes even a young inexperienced QB might know what won't work for his skill set. On the other hand, why would anyone ever question anything Jones does?

[OV Argo]

The defensive genius Jones' defence is a total joke. Cost them the game, but kudos to Bummers back-up QB Brown who was very sharp.

The Jonestown clown show might continue with Tre Ford at QB, but wouldn't matter if they had Russ Jackson or Warren Moon in their primes, this is a real $hite football team and allowing Jones to continue as HC is a farce and embarssment.

[OV Argo]

I don't get it, can you explain what that has to do with the post?

No; likely not.

[bannedforlife]

I have to wonder why there weren't more plays with Ford running the ball. He obviously is one of the fastest and most elusive guys on the field, that was evident from the few times we were allowed to see it. Aside from the one interception, I thought he protected the ball well and made mostly good decisions. His passes were good and let's remember this is the best team in the league they played. The defense obviously wilted as the game went on. But I think we can conclude Ford does have the tools just needs the time.

Considering that they had a decent crowd the last game I was kinda disappointed more people didn't turn out to cheer Ford on. Aside from the unlikely longshot of a win that was about as good as you could ask for.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't know how tonight's game is going to turn out for Tre Ford, but at the beginning of the game the announcers mentioned Ford went 8/9 (but didn't mention the yardage) and ran for 30 yards. I tried to look up the stats on CFL.ca but they are missing for the preseason games, another example of a league mess-up that continued into the early season with stats. Some posters here kept noting that Jones had said Ford was on the PR because he had a terrible preseason. For me 8/9 doesn't sound horrid, although we don't have the full stats picture. However, Jones coaching overall has been horrid this year.

I am only going by memory but I am believe it was for 48 yards in the preseason - 6 yards per completion which is quite a low number.

[ArgoRavi]

I have to wonder why there weren't more plays with Ford running the ball. He obviously is one of the fastest and most elusive guys on the field, that was evident from the few times we were allowed to see it. Aside from the one interception, I thought he protected the ball well and made mostly good decisions. His passes were good and let's remember this is the best team in the league they played. The defense obviously wilted as the game went on. But I think we can conclude Ford does have the tools just needs the time.

Considering that they had a decent crowd the last game I was kinda disappointed more people didn't turn out to cheer Ford on. Aside from the unlikely longshot of a win that was about as good as you could ask for.

The problem with Ford running on most plays is that defences will shut that down very quickly (see Crum, Dustin in Ottawa). Ultimately, any QB who is successful at the pro level has to be able to sit in the pocket, go through their reads, and deliver the ball with accuracy. Running ability is definitely a great asset to have but you have to be able to pass the ball effectively. Having said that, younger QBs will tend to run the ball more as they are just learning the pro game but they can't run a lot forever.

[OV Argo]

The problem with Ford running on most plays is that defences will shut that down very quickly (see Crum, Dustin in Ottawa). Ultimately, any QB who is successful at the pro level has to be able to sit in the pocket, go through their reads, and deliver the ball with accuracy. Running ability is definitely a great asset to have but you have to be able to pass the ball effectively. Having said that, younger QBs will tend to run the ball more as they are just learning the pro game but they can't run a lot forever.

Not sure who is suggesting Ford runs on most plays, but if you knew his U Sports passing resume, it's easy to see he was not just a great running QB, but also put up some superb passing numbers. A great QB can be just a pure passer, but the greatest CFL QBs (see guys named Russ Jackson or Doug Flutie) have been those with scrambling & running for yardage ability.

And once again - why, to all the CFL people who believe that a QB who runs often just has to get injured and knocked out of action, not able to view and take note of the number of NFL QBs now who are successful and run as much or more than young Crum has so far, plus are very good passers ???

[paulwoods13]

And once again - why, to all the CFL people who believe that a QB who runs often just has to get injured and knocked out of action, not able to view and take note of the number of NFL QBs now who are successful and run as much or more than young Crum has so far, plus are very good passers ???

Just to ensure there are some facts underpinning this discussion:

Last year there were five NFL QBs who rushed for more than 700 yards: Justin Fields (1,143), Lamar Jackson (764), Josh Allen (762), Jalen Hurts (760) and Daniel Jones (708). I doubt Fields or Jones would be considered very good passers, but the others certainly are.

There was then a huge drop-off to two over 400 (Mariota and Murray -- 34-38 yards per game), two over 300 (Mahomes and Smith -- 21-22 yards per game) and then we're into the 200s (16-19 yards per game). Mahomes is obviously a superb passer, the other guys are fair to middling. But none of these guys below the top five would be considered as running a lot, IMO.

[OV Argo]

Just to ensure there are some facts underpinning this discussion:

Last year there were five NFL QBs who rushed for more than 700 yards: Justin Fields (1,143), Lamar Jackson (764), Josh Allen (762), Jalen Hurts (760) and Daniel Jones (708). I doubt Fields or Jones would be considered very good passers, but the others certainly are.

There was then a huge drop-off to two over 400 (Mariota and Murray -- 34-38 yards per game), two over 300 (Mahomes and Smith -- 21-22 yards per game) and then we're into the 200s (16-19 yards per game). Mahomes is obviously a superb passer, the other guys are fair to middling. But none of these guys below the top five would be considered as running a lot, IMO.

Fields and Jones are both competent to good passers or they would not be starting in the NFL IMO. Point still is, that a number of NFL teams allow their franchise, multi-million dollar QBs to take off and run LOTS, including play-off bound teams; but this type of QB action is just unacceptable or fraught with danger/disaster when it comes to the CFL ??? Dustin Crum is just going to get killed I tells ya, but Josh Allen is cool.

[paulwoods13]

Fields and Jones are both competent to good passers or they would not be starting in the NFL IMO. Point still is, that a number of NFL teams allow their franchise, multi-million dollar QBs to take off and run LOTS, including play-off bound teams; but this type of QB action is just unacceptable or fraught with danger/disaster when it comes to the CFL ??? Dustin Crum is just going to get killed I tells ya, but Josh Allen is cool.

I'm surprised you think the fact a QB is starting in the NFL necessarily makes him competent to good, but that's a different discussion for another day. On your main point, "a number" of NFL teams allowing their QBs to take off and run LOTS was, in 2022, five out of 32 teams, which would equate to less than a team and a half in the CFL. I grant that there isn't a CFL team building in lots of running by the QB at the moment (and hasn't been for many years), but I also wouldn't overstate how prevalent it is in the NFL.

[OV Argo]

I'm surprised you think the fact a QB is starting in the NFL necessarily makes him competent to good, but that's a different discussion for another day. On your main point, "a number" of NFL teams allowing their QBs to take off and run LOTS was, in 2022, five out of 32 teams, which would equate to less than a team and a half in the CFL. I grant that there isn't a CFL team building in lots of running by the QB at the moment (and hasn't been for many years), but I also wouldn't overstate how prevalent it is in the NFL.

A number of known to run lots NFL starting QBs - Kyler Murray, D. Watson, Tyler Huntley, M. Mariota - did not play close to full seasons last year; so your stat cherry picking does not factor that in - that could be at least 8 out of 32 teams = i.e. one quarter of NFL teams, feature QBs that have good running ability, are not afraid to do so, and are not told by their coaching staffs (i would guess) to almost never run for fear of injury.

[paulwoods13]

A number of known to run lots NFL starting QBs - Kyler Murray, D. Watson, Tyler Huntley, M. Mariota - did not play close to full seasons last year; so your stat cherry picking does not factor that in - that could be at least 8 out of 32 teams = i.e. one quarter of NFL teams, feature QBs that have good running ability, are not afraid to do so, and are not told by their coaching staffs (i would guess) to almost never run for fear of injury.

Is this cherry picking, too? Yards per game: Fields 76, Jackson 64, Hurts 51, Allen 48, Jones 44. Second tier Murray 38, Mariota 34, Watson 29, Huntley 23.

I don't consider 23-34 yards per game indicative of "run lots QBs." Murray at 38 is on the bubble. It seems to me something in the range of 6-8 carries/game for 40-plus yards would probably warrant such categorization. Also, Huntley is not a starting QB, unless you consider Jackson to not be a starting QB.

[bannedforlife]

I'm surprised you think the fact a QB is starting in the NFL necessarily makes him competent to good

I thought this was an interesting sentence, if that is the case why do so many people crap on the CFL and deify the NFL? Food for thought.

[OV Argo]

Is this cherry picking, too? Yards per game: Fields 76, Jackson 64, Hurts 51, Allen 48, Jones 44. Second tier Murray 38, Mariota 34, Watson 29, Huntley 23.

I don't consider 23-34 yards per game indicative of "run lots QBs." Murray at 38 is on the bubble. It seems to me something in the range of 6-8 carries/game for 40-plus yards would probably warrant such categorization. Also, Huntley is not a starting QB, unless you consider Jackson to not be a starting QB.

What was Dustin Crum last game? - something like 4 carries for 21 yards ?

[OV Argo]

I thought this was an interesting sentence, if that is the case why do so many people crap on the CFL and deify the NFL? Food for thought.

Surely you reailize I'm not one of those type? To set the record straight - IMO, a number of CFL QBs are often as good or better than some NFL starters and most back-ups.

But when the NFL has the pick of any football players they want - IMO most NFL starters are decent to very good passers; doesn't make them superstar QB talents nor better than all CFL QBs.

The NFL fan-boys up here have been sold a bill of goods that makes them "deify" NFL players and crap on the CFL. These types are clueless clowns and know zip about football.