Anyone Still Think MLSE ever had a business plan for the Argos?

[argolio]

Can MLSE at least try and put in equal effort to what they put into Toronto FC? Is that asking too much?

MLS sold MLSE on the idea of soccer infiltrating the American market to the point where MLS would eventually land a big U.S. TV contract, and MLSE is still on board with that. MLSE does not see the same revenue potential with the CFL, and therefore doesn't see the point spending more on the team.

At least that's what I think MLSE believes.

So what is their rationale for owning the Argos? Small tax write off, philanthropy (keep Argos off deathbed), keep CFL alive for TSN?
If they are committed to the losses to do that they could commit a little more to trying to create value.
If not they should try and find another Amar Doman, Bob Young to sell to. A dedicated President with a dedicated budget (drop in the bucket to them), and they can just watch what happens with very little risk. Value would come. An entire 10 team league firing on all cylinders should be worth $100 million.

Probably a content play. Bell makes money from the CFL deal and wants to keep a team in Toronto, home of major advertisers and ad agencies.

Finding another owner sounds good in theory, but those people generally want to see some kind of a payoff down the road. If it's not a big jump in TV money, franchise value, or attendance beyond the occasional East final, then what?

[Argofan_1000]

There is no doubt, and there has never been any doubt, that MLSE is in the sports business for one primary purpose: to grow enterprise value. Operating profits (and losses) are of vastly lower importance. Its three other major league properties have all grown significantly in value over the duration of MLSE's ownership. The Argos have not. They likely could not be sold today even for the $5 million the team supposedly fetched in 1988 and 1991 (although we now know that both of those sales figures were essentially fictional).

A strong case can be made that in its five years of ownership, MLSE has done little (if anything) to attempt to grow the franchise value. And a strong case can also be made that ownership failures/neglect/stupidity over the preceding 35 years were also a massively important contributor to this awful state of affairs.

As to what could be done to reverse this situation, who the hell knows at this point? A dedicated Argo president with a mandate from MLSE to grow the Argos brand (and a budget to make that happen) certainly could not hurt, but there is no guarantee that even that would make a difference.

MLSE did nothing to advance value. They got sucked along for the ride because all the other teams are in American Leagues. They are pretty bold to think they had anything to do with value when all the other teams are below the 49th. All the action happened there, not here

[ArgoRavi]

Well I think we're all agreed that 5+ seasons of continued excellence -- something this team has never done before in its history -- would at least move the needle a little bit. We're already through season 1!

But as for long-term solutions, Tannenbaum pretty much spelled it out in that article, and I think he's right on. The CFL needs to be totally restructured in order to survive. The community-owned teams need to have a stake in the success of Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Although Larry can't say it in public, surely he believes the CFL should be structured like MLS, where all player contracts are with the League and all revenues are shared.

This would bring the return of the Marquee Player, IMO the only way the CFL survives going forward. Look, the TFC was invisible in this town until the day Beckham came to town as an opponent. They took off from there. Big names draw interest in Toronto. Period. Just imagine Russell Wilson coming to finish off his career with the Argonauts, Derek Carr in BC and Jared Goff trying to rekindle his career in Montreal. There'd be sellouts across the League, including at BMO.

And if anyone wants to argue that Flutie didn't draw any interest in 96-97, think about how different things are today in terms of media exposure and social media. It's a different world.

The Argos did get their way as far as reinstating revenue sharing.

[AngeloV]

Must be nice to have an owner that tries.

The lower bowl at BC Place seats 25,500.

For context, the Lions have only reached the 24,000 attendance mark twice since 2016.

It's good to finally see some momentum behind this franchise.#BCLions | #CFL https://t.co/Xfdf5nqquL

— John Hodge (@JohnDHodge) June 7, 2022

[ArgoGabe22]

Not being snarky but what has he done so far? Are people just excited at fresh blood?

[R.J]

Sadly, it looks as if their plan was "Hey, we're MLSE, so long as we own it, move them to BMO, and tell the CFL what to do, we'll make money, because well, we're MLSE".

As a fan, I have been greatly disappointed with MLS&E's stewardship, they just don't seem to give a rat's behind. While I'm sure the Argonauts employees are working hard to make things work, the top brass lacking an overall plan, and by the looks of it lacking even faith that the Argos can work is disheartening.

[AngeloV]

Not being snarky but what has he done so far? Are people just excited at fresh blood?

Probably need to speak to Lions ticket holders or former ticket holders. We have no idea what promotion is going on in Vancouver, but it must be more than what we are seeing in Toronto. You yourself said that the Argos have not contacted you since you cancelled your subscription. That speaks volumes to effort or lack there of.

[Mocha]

Not being snarky but what has he done so far? Are people just excited at fresh blood?

He seems to do a lot of interviews, in which he says a lot of the right things in the vein of Bob Young. He is promoting the home opener with some enthusiasm, even booking OneRepublic to perform. He's renogiated some conditions with Pavco, the company that operates BC Place, so there will be some more affordable options on the menu for families. He's done outreach programs/camps with kids and particularly with indigenous kids. I think the Lions always ran such programs, but I've heard much more about them since Doman took over.

[argotom]

He seems to do a lot of interviews, in which he says a lot of the right things in the vein of Bob Young. He is promoting the home opener with some enthusiasm, even booking OneRepublic to perform. He's renogiated some conditions with Pavco, the company that operates BC Place, so there will be some more affordable options on the menu for families. He's done outreach programs/camps with kids and particularly with indigenous kids. I think the Lions always ran such programs, but I've heard much more about them since Doman took over.

Not to mention they appear to have an outstanding young Canadian QB tandem, O'Connor who should have been still with us challenging for first team reps. Don't know what happened there.

[gilthethrill]

Not to mention they appear to have an outstanding young Canadian QB tandem, O'Connor who should have been still with us challenging for first team reps. Don't know what happened there.

From what I understand the Argos wanted MOC to stay but he felt a move to Calgary was best for him. He resides on the West Coast so signing with B.C. was a logical choice.

[AngeloV]

Not to mention they appear to have an outstanding young Canadian QB tandem, O'Connor who should have been still with us challenging for first team reps. Don't know what happened there.

That is great but I fail to see what the owner had to do with that.

[gilthethrill]

Must be nice to have an owner that tries.

Congratulations to the BC Lions. I am excited to see football become relevant again on the West Coast.

[Antwon]

Here's another example of the Argos relevance in their market. I stream TSN 690 Montreal every morning. (long time Habs fan) Today there are a number of people talking CFL and the Als ahead of the first game. There's high interest and excitement.
In Toronto the Argos get next to no coverage. This is where MLSE has enough clout to push for more coverage etc. Although Bell/TSN don't push Argo coverage, so maybe it's hopeless.

[argotom]

Here's another example of the Argos relevance in their market. I stream TSN 690 Montreal every morning. (long time Habs fan) Today there are a number of people talking CFL and the Als ahead of the first game. There's high interest and excitement.
In Toronto the Argos get next to no coverage. This is where MLSE has enough clout to push for more coverage etc. Although Bell/TSN don't push Argo coverage, so maybe it's hopeless.

Bell/CTV despite the contract for the CFL, purposely took off the potential Grey Cup game which years ago was on the main networks(CBC and CTV) and brought them down a peg to strictly the cable TSN spot.
Although exclusive yes, the reality for at least not having playoffs or the Championship game is therefore below the "majors".
I am not wrong, as all of the so called 'majors" to include golf and MLS is played on the CTV feed.
Don't get me going about the NFL where the board was purposely cleared on Sundays by removing our league which was doing well a few years back going head to head.
Bell/CTV could change that in a nano second if their advertising arm were also on board.
So perception is reality in this market only.

[ArgoRavi]

Here's another example of the Argos relevance in their market. I stream TSN 690 Montreal every morning. (long time Habs fan) Today there are a number of people talking CFL and the Als ahead of the first game. There's high interest and excitement.
In Toronto the Argos get next to no coverage. This is where MLSE has enough clout to push for more coverage etc. Although Bell/TSN don't push Argo coverage, so maybe it's hopeless.

Tanenbaum put Toronto, Montreal and B.C. all in the same category and yet the new owners in the latter two markets actually seem to be trying to improve the situation in those markets and appear to be making headway. Meanwhile, Larry just whines. I am so pissed off with him and MLSE right now.

[OV Argo]

Tanenbaum put Toronto, Montreal and B.C. all in the same category and yet the new owners in the latter two markets actually seem to be trying to improve the situation in those markets and appear to be making headway. Meanwhile, Larry just whines. I am so pissed off with him and MLSE right now.

X-Mas tree is still living his crack pipe dream of an NFL franchise for Toronnawannabeland; involvement with the Argos was bet hedging to have some control of football in the area - could fold the Argos or try to make them more irrelevant in a heartbeat to fit his agenda.

Larry & MLSE as Argo owners = a total joke.

Meanwhile, there's Doman in BC.

[cfl-cis fan]

X-Mas tree is still living his crack pipe dream of an NFL franchise for Toronnawannabeland; involvement with the Argos was bet hedging to have some control of football in the area - could fold the Argos or try to make them more irrelevant in a heartbeat to fit his agenda.

Larry & MLSE as Argo owners = a total joke.

Meanwhile, there's Doman in BC.

Say what we want about MLSE but I dont see anyone stepping up to purchase the team and keep it in TO. Agree with all comments about lack of good marketing though .... in my opinion we need to replace the Comish though. Sorry but I dont have any trust in him.

[Scooter McCray]

Say what we want about MLSE but I dont see anyone stepping up to purchase the team and keep it in TO. Agree with all comments about lack of good marketing though .... in my opinion we need to replace the Comish though. Sorry but I dont have any trust in him.

Agree with commissioner. I want MLSE to be the owner. I just want them to be an engaged owner, and to put someone in as a standalone President who cares like Michael Clemons and give him free rein to rebuild. Just like Victor Cui is doing as President in Edmonton. The Argos are going to be a contending team to win a championship over the next few years. They need to re-engage the fanbase, the city and the business community while they play good football. And they need to be a leader inside the league itself. MLSE is perfectly suited to do all of the above. MLSE need to learn how to work hard to be successful. The day may come when those skills can be if use with their other franchises.

[Foxhound]

There is no doubt, and there has never been any doubt, that MLSE is in the sports business for one primary purpose: to grow enterprise value. Operating profits (and losses) are of vastly lower importance.

Precisely! MLSE are investors, not operators and they don't know the first thing about running a business including building a brand. (The Maple Leafs and the Raptors were already well established brands when MLSE acquired them.)

So no, they had no business plan for the Argonauts. The entire concept of such a thing is alien to them.

Make Pinball President, give him a budget, and get out of the way. In 5 years you will have value.

Agreed!

[paulwoods13]

(The Maple Leafs and the Raptors were already well established brands when MLSE acquired them.)

That's debatable, at best. Maple Leaf Gardens Ltd. (later rebranded MLSE) purchased the Raptors in 1998, when the team was halfway through its third season and still playing in SkyDome. The Leafs were definitely an established brand before the current ownership structure came along.