Game Thread Hamilton at Argos Aug 26, 2022

[AngeloV]

Argos really need to win this one. Both teams battling injuries, so it should be an interesting game. I get that 4 out of 5 against the same team is overkill, but I for one love the atmosphere with the Cats are in town.
Dane Evans returns to the starter's role for Hamilton.

Depth chart and full roster can be found at the below CFL.CA link.

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...-Depth-PDF.pdf

Ti-Cats depth chart and roster below.

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...r-08-26-22.pdf

[paulwoods13]

Zero fullbacks in the lineup this week. Just a guess that we will have trouble establishing a running game.

[AngeloV]

Zero fullbacks in the lineup this week. Just a guess that we will have trouble establishing a running game.

Yes, I think they might use one of the extra o-lineman in a TE role more than normal.

[OV Argo]

Zero fullbacks in the lineup this week. Just a guess that we will have trouble establishing a running game.

Did Carbone play a single down on offence when he was dressed last game? Asking, cause i didn't notice.

Really, these offensive coaches don't get a varied or strong application of a fullback or H-back (interesting to see Ticats' brilliant (LOL) 1st round pick Jake Burt catch a 25 yard gainer out of tight end last game); might as well line-up an extra O-lineman, I guess - not sure it will do much good though.

[paulwoods13]

Carbone got hurt very early, but IIRC he did get into the offence before he was injured. Dinwiddie said losing him killed part of their playbook since they had no fullback after that. Before Cross got hurt, he was getting a lot of offensive snaps.

[OV Argo]

Carbone got hurt very early, but IIRC he did get into the offence before he was injured. Dinwiddie said losing him killed part of their playbook since they had no fullback after that. Before Cross got hurt, he was getting a lot of offensive snaps.

Lame excuse by Dinwiddie; a lot of CFL H-backs now are converted linebackers or guys who were mostly just blocking backs in college ball; if the position is oh so important to this diverse offence (LOL), then why not have a guy with the body type or strength/athleticism to just block, be prepared as a back-up at the position to the one other guy listed as "fullback" - I'm guessing Cassar, Calver or Penny could easily learn/do the job.

[Shatto]

Lame excuse by Dinwiddie; a lot of CFL H-backs now are converted linebackers or guys who were mostly just blocking backs in college ball; if the position is oh so important to this diverse offence (LOL), then why not have a guy with the body type or strength/athleticism to just block, be prepared as a back-up at the position to the one other guy listed as "fullback" - I'm guessing Cassar, Calver or Penny could easily learn/do the job.

Completely agree. To have no alternative for an injured player is unacceptable. Another coaching blunder.

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, let's stick a guy from defence on offence in a position he has not played ever, or at least since high school, and ask him to learn the (150? 250? 500?) plays in the offensive playbook. In a week. That will work for sure.

Hey, the Argos brass deserve every bit of condemnation I (and a few others) have heaped on them for personnel management blunders this year. Having no option to replace two injured fullbacks is another one of those, albeit of far lesser importance than having no viable offensive tackle to replace two of those. But complaining they did not convert a linebacker to fullback in one week might be a bit rich.

[OV Argo]

Yeah, let's stick a guy from defence on offence in a position he has not played ever, or at least since high school, and ask him to learn the (150? 250? 500?) plays in the offensive playbook. In a week. That will work for sure.

Hey, the Argos brass deserve every bit of condemnation I (and a few others) have heaped on them for personnel management blunders this year. Having no option to replace two injured fullbacks is another one of those, albeit of far lesser importance than having no viable offensive tackle to replace two of those. But complaining they did not convert a linebacker to fullback in one week might be a bit rich.

It's called having some vision, plus knowing how to utilize players on the roster with some versatility; the "fullback" is just a simple blocker in this oh so so-fist-icated Argo offence; a couple of back-up LBs learn the position from TC on in, just like they have to learn various ST roles; not too much to ask.

[AngeloV]

Completely agree. To have no alternative for an injured player is unacceptable. Another coaching blunder.

I think I would blame management more than the coach for not having personnel available. Heaven forbid Pinball and the management team take blame for anything.

[Shatto]

Yeah, let's stick a guy from defence on offence in a position he has not played ever, or at least since high school, and ask him to learn the (150? 250? 500?) plays in the offensive playbook. In a week. That will work for sure.

Hey, the Argos brass deserve every bit of condemnation I (and a few others) have heaped on them for personnel management blunders this year. Having no option to replace two injured fullbacks is another one of those, albeit of far lesser importance than having no viable offensive tackle to replace two of those. But complaining they did not convert a linebacker to fullback in one week might be a bit rich.

It is quite proper to disagree with another's opinion but with the greatest of respect, not with sarcasm. Paul, I admire and respect your opinions but you are better than that.

Penny-Laryea started his college career as a RB and with 4.58 speed could be an excellent fill in at FB. Since he primarily plays on special teams only, it shouldn't be too onerous a task, to learn the FB role. He is intelligent (former All-Academic) with great speed (40 in 4.58). I'm old enough to remember players playing full time on both offense and defense, granted in simpler times, so it can be done.

[argolio]

I think I would blame management more than the coach for not having personnel available. Heaven forbid Pinball and the management team take blame for anything.

Or maybe it's ownership. I'm getting a David Braley vibe based on MLSE's current commitment to the team.

[ArgoRavi]

I think I would blame management more than the coach for not having personnel available. Heaven forbid Pinball and the management team take blame for anything.

Or maybe it's ownership. I'm getting a David Braley vibe based on MLSE's current commitment to the team.

It may be a bit of both.

I have said before that Pinball loves his veteran players. When he was head coach, it seemed like he would go with a vet any day over a younger player. Think back to 2007 and how old that team was; by the end of the season, the offence contained the likes of Mookie Mitchell, Marc Boerigter, John Avery, Robert Edwards, and Troy Davis - none of whom returned the following season. The signings of Brandon Banks and Andrew Harris have Pinball's name written all of over them - for good or bad - although I tend to go with the negative here. Neither seemed like a great fit for Dinwiddie's offence.

As for ownership, could they at least pretend to care?

[paulwoods13]

It is quite proper to disagree with another's opinion but with the greatest of respect, not with sarcasm. Paul, I admire and respect your opinions but you are better than that.

Penny-Laryea started his college career as a RB and with 4.58 speed could be an excellent fill in at FB. Since he primarily plays on special teams only, it shouldn't be too onerous a task, to learn the FB role. He is intelligent (former All-Academic) with great speed (40 in 4.58). I'm old enough to remember players playing full time on both offense and defense, granted in simpler times, so it can be done.

Sorry for the sarcasm (which clearly was not directed at you, FWIW). How realistic is it to expect a defensive player to learn an offence? Offensive playbooks have literally hundreds of plays. For anyone (again, not you) to suggest that all a FB needs to know how to do is block ignores the reality that blocking is just as schemed up as pass patterns are. (And we have seen plenty of examples this year of blocking schemes breaking down.)

Sadly, the simpler times when players played both ways are long gone. I would love it if football became simpler and less coaching-driven, but that ship sailed decades ago.

[Will]

I don't care how they do it, just win the fucking game!

[paulwoods13]

I have said before that Pinball loves his veteran players. When he was head coach, it seemed like he would go with a vet any day over a younger player. Think back to 2007 and how old that team was; by the end of the season, the offence contained the likes of Mookie Mitchell, Marc Boerigter, John Avery, Robert Edwards, and Troy Davis - none of whom returned the following season. The signings of Brandon Banks and Andrew Harris have Pinball's name written all of over them - for good or bad - although I tend to go with the negative here. Neither seemed like a great fit for Dinwiddie's offence.

Yes, Pinball was likely the driving force behind those signings. But I don't think he is doing much of what is normally expected of general managers, including scouting prospective players. That role was held last year by Murphy, who had to go but IMO has not been adequately replaced. I don't see Barker as a viable head of personnel at this point, and I hope Magri is not expected to fulfil that role at this stage of his career. And I believe that because Murphy left and was not replaced, most of the personnel decisions that have been questionable or downright wrong were likely made by the head coach.

[Scooter McCray]

Pinball should always have been, and still should be the President of the team. He can install a GM who can then build their own staff from scouting to coaching. Pinball can focus on getting bums in seats and building a fanbase. I have actually forgotten the name of the current President. MLSE should be embarrassed about the neglect they have shown a pro team in this city.

[ArgofanIan]

Looking forward to going to the game today. This is my favorite game of the year. always great atmosphere when Ticats and their fans visit. Always admire the passion of the Ticat fans.. Lots of pressure on both Quarterbacks. Just hoping for a good game... Would be nice to keep hold of the Ballard cup ... GO ARRERRGOS !!!

[OV Argo]

Sorry for the sarcasm (which clearly was not directed at you, FWIW). How realistic is it to expect a defensive player to learn an offence? Offensive playbooks have literally hundreds of plays. For anyone (again, not you) to suggest that all a FB needs to know how to do is block ignores the reality that blocking is just as schemed up as pass patterns are. (And we have seen plenty of examples this year of blocking schemes breaking down.)

Sadly, the simpler times when players played both ways are long gone. I would love it if football became simpler and less coaching-driven, but that ship sailed decades ago.

And sadly as well, you must be gosh golly impressed by the complexity of this Argo offence and the incredible schemes it would take to learn to block. ;o) Sorry bout the sarcasm, and let's not criticize a coaching genius like Dinwiddie too much now. And BTW - does Pinball get to dictate to the Argo coaching staff that Banks is on the roster, where he lines up and that he gets deemed a go to target ?

[paulwoods13]

And sadly as well, you must be gosh golly impressed by the complexity of this Argo offence and the incredible schemes it would take to learn to block. ;o) Sorry bout the sarcasm, and let's not criticize a coaching genius like Dinwiddie too much now. And BTW - does Pinball get to dictate to the Argo coaching staff that Banks is on the roster, where he lines up and that he gets deemed a go to target ?

You're not alone in criticizing the Argo offence, as you must know if you have been reading this forum closely. That is, however, beside the point. Do you or do you not agree that any offence, however effective, has hundreds of plays and could not be learned in one week by a defensive player? Do you or do you not agree that blocking schemes are an important part of the design of any offence, however effective?

As for Pinball, I don't believe he is dictating much, if anything, to the coaching staff, which IMO is part of the problem we've had with personnel decisions. The GM should endeavour to get players a coach wants, but should have ultimate decision-making authority on who gets kept. Coaches should determine how the players are used. Again, do you agree or disagree?