Time may have come to consider Michael Pinball Clemons as the next CFL Commissione

[1971GreyCup]

When I said I didn't know the man, I meant to meet him. I know the above story but because he is a good man doesn't mean he is the right man. I think the CFL commissionership has long been made up of good men: Gaudaur, Mitchell, Cohon and even Ambrosie. I was Ambrosie's biggest fan when he began, former player, successful businessman but he became political and wishy washy, that's not what the position needs, it needs an iron will and backbone and a willingness to be unpopular when difficult decisions arise.

if you look back over five years ago on this thread, I argued vehemently against Ambrose’s selection for the reasons that turned out and at that time I made the same case to CFL BOG Chairman Jim Lawson and Argos BOG representative Dale Lastman. Even the, Mike was 5-0 with Grey Cups.

[bannedforlife]

if you look back over five years ago on this thread, I argued vehemently against Ambrose’s selection for the reasons that turned out and at that time I made the same case to CFL BOG Chairman Jim Lawson and Argos BOG representative Dale Lastman. Even the, Mike was 5-0 with Grey Cups.

And the Argos have been 0-5 in everything else dragging down the league. The narrative being if the Argos are failing the league is failing.

I don't want to come across as a troll but most people who don't live in Toronto have a dislike for Toronto. But I want the Argos to do well because if they do well the league does well. Like it or not media and marketing for Canada is based in Toronto and when perceptions are bad for the Argos they are projected on the league.

Mike can put a football team together, that's great but can he put 27k people in BMO on a regular basis. Winning the Grey Cup left me feeling like Canada losing against Belgium, incomplete. Win the championship, but attract no crowds or put out a brilliant effort but still lose. Somebody has to fix that, if Mike's skills are transferable to being commissioner, let him fix the Argos' organization before attempting the league.

[1971GreyCup]

And the Argos have been 0-5 in everything else dragging down the league. The narrative being if the Argos are failing the league is failing.

I don't want to come across as a troll but most people who don't live in Toronto have a dislike for Toronto. But I want the Argos to do well because if they do well the league does well. Like it or not media and marketing for Canada is based in Toronto and when perceptions are bad for the Argos they are projected on the league.

Mike can put a football team together, that's great but can he put 27k people in BMO on a regular basis. Winning the Grey Cup left me feeling like Canada losing against Belgium, incomplete. Win the championship, but attract no crowds or put out a brilliant effort but still lose. Somebody has to fix that, if Mike's skills are transferable to being commissioner, let him fix the Argos' organization before attempting the league.

Of course, everyone is entitled to to their own opinion.

I am sure if I looked into Mike’s contract it doesn’t say win almost all the season games and championships AND raise the attendance. Eisenhower wasn’t told to win WWII AND do it in record time.

People outside Toronto do dislike Toronto, but I assure you all Canadians know and love “Pinball”. EVERYONE

I think if you gave “Pinball” the task to rebuild the fan base in Toronto too he’d do that. But he wasn’t given that task. We just asked him to win the GreyCup. Don’t move the bar afterwards.

[1971GreyCup]

By the way, this thread is to start the discussion. Sadly I don’t think change is coming anytime soon. So, let’s move Mike to President and broaden his mandate and put him in charge of attendance too. I don’t think attendance was a real problem when he was president last time.

[Will]

By the way, this thread is to start the discussion. Sadly I don’t think change is coming anytime soon. So, let’s move Mike to President and broaden his mandate and put him in charge of attendance too. I don’t think attendance was a real problem when he was president last time.

When did he last serve as President?

[1971GreyCup]

When did he last serve as President?

2001-2002 and took over a HC

[Will]

2001-2002 and took over a HC

Attendance wasn't great at the time although it was 100% not Pinball's fault

[bannedforlife]

I don’t think attendance was a real problem when he was president last time.

And the Argos are the biggest proof that times (and the market) have changed. When every team in the league can average 24k (Ott, Ham, Mtl capacity) or over and be profitable we'd all be amazed how many league problems would disappear.

[1971GreyCup]

Today Pinball made a very compelling case to be promoted to president and build a dynasty in Toronto. Sweeeet Spot!

[bannedforlife]

And that sums up the frustration and why you see conspiracy theories . Why would you want to lose 6 million a year when you could spend maybe a million more and break even. And the worst part is there is no engagement. People ask these questions in forums and no company rep will come on and at least explain their side. Someone had to direct me to an interview saying some of the good things they were doing, was it publicized here, at one of the few Argo fansites? I actually have to beg for an Argo rep to tell me I'm wrong and correct me. And it hasn't happened yet.

If MLSE is such a great company as they seem to think they are, you would think: 1. They would consider the Argos a challenge to their mass marketing skills or 2 At least be humiliated by the shit job they have done at not moving the needle after so many years. No one is asking for 80k people, just 25k in a 5 million market area. A rookie, Doman has come in and done more in one year than their media conglomerate has done in a decade. Gary Stern's rambling tweets have probably done better

[paulwoods13]

And that sums up the frustration and why you see conspiracy theories . Why would you want to lose 6 million a year when you could spend maybe a million more and break even.

I think it's highly unlikely that spending an additional $1M on marketing would yield a 700% return. I wish it were otherwise, but if the Argos really are losing $6M per year, I'm pretty sure it would take a lot more than an additional $1M in spending to get them to break even (and of course the hill to climb would grow by whatever amount of additional spending takes place).

MLSE is less interested in turning an operating profit on its properties than in growing their enterprise value. How much spending would have to take place, and how much new revenue would have to be generated, to turn the Argos from a property worth maybe the same $5M it reportedly sold for more than once in the past, to a property worth ten times that?

[bannedforlife]

I think it's highly unlikely that spending an additional $1M on marketing would yield a 700% return. I wish it were otherwise, but if the Argos really are losing $6M per year,
MLSE is less interested in turning an operating profit on its properties than in growing their enterprise value.

I didn't mean for one million to be taken literally as for their losses haven't they ranged from 6-12 million?

You're right about the enterprise value but WTF were they thinking when they bought the team? Did they think a CFL team would be worth 150 million? Or (insert conspiracy theory) did they figure someday they would tie in with an NFL wannabe league.

[OV Argo]

And that sums up the frustration and why you see conspiracy theories . Why would you want to lose 6 million a year when you could spend maybe a million more and break even. And the worst part is there is no engagement. People ask these questions in forums and no company rep will come on and at least explain their side. Someone had to direct me to an interview saying some of the good things they were doing, was it publicized here, at one of the few Argo fansites? I actually have to beg for an Argo rep to tell me I'm wrong and correct me. And it hasn't happened yet.

If MLSE is such a great company as they seem to think they are, you would think: 1. They would consider the Argos a challenge to their mass marketing skills or 2 At least be humiliated by the shit job they have done at not moving the needle after so many years. No one is asking for 80k people, just 25k in a 5 million market area. A rookie, Doman has come in and done more in one year than their media conglomerate has done in a decade. Gary Stern's rambling tweets have probably done better

Yep - shows how gutless and useless MLSE are on anything Argos.

And again - accuse me of putting on a tin-foil hat - but, sorry, can't shake the idea that MLSE and Larry buying into the Argos was nothing to do with wanting to see the Argos and the CFL succeed in the GTA and overall, but more to have some control of pro gridiron football in the area to further their never ending love & quest for getting an American pro football team (NFL crack-pipe dream still going; XFL, USFL, whatever Mickey Mouse league is looking hip at the time). Of course they would never answer that question, but we'll see what happens with the Argos future, and maybe sooner than later.

[bannedforlife]

And again - accuse me of putting on a tin-foil hat - but, sorry, can't shake the idea that MLSE and Larry buying into the Argos was nothing to do with wanting to see the Argos and the CFL succeed in the GTA and overall, but more to have some control of pro gridiron football in the area to further their never ending love & quest for getting an American pro football team (NFL crack-pipe dream still going; XFL, USFL, whatever Mickey Mouse league is looking hip at the time). Of course they would never answer that question, but we'll see what happens with the Argos future, and maybe sooner than later.

They make it very difficult to think otherwise, especially with their stand on XFL. Thank God for the other owners.

["Issues"Mcgee]

They make it very difficult to think otherwise, especially with their stand on XFL. Thank God for the other owners.

It's just not going to happen. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. The only reason why a merger was even suggested is because the CFL was on hiatus.

[bannedforlife]

It's just not going to happen. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. The only reason why a merger was even suggested is because the CFL was on hiatus.

There were two teams in favour of it Toronto and Calgary IIRC. I believe there was a rift at the BOG between Christmas Tree and everybody else. He was pissed the rest were too stupid not to go along with it. Stern stood up for him publicly out of respect. There was more to it than the league being on hold. If I have any of this wrong please correct me.

[ArgoRavi]

It's difficult to envision that bigger crowds would show up in February and March to watch the XFL in Toronto or Calgary. I really don't understand the owners in either of those markets wanting to merge with that league.

[bannedforlife]

It's difficult to envision that bigger crowds would show up in February and March to watch the XFL in Toronto or Calgary. I really don't understand the owners in either of those markets wanting to merge with that league.

The end game is never to remain a spring league. They always want to take on the giant sooner or later, maybe in the hopes of a merger or a coexistence. Ironically a spring league over the long haul has a better shot at surviving except no one has stayed the course long enough to prove it. Maybe Christmas Tree and the other conglomeration CSEC never got that far in their thinking (playing in spring) but had their eye fixed on that elusive enterprise value.