Can the Argos Grey Cup win help build fan support or is it another blown opportunity

[jerrym]

The Argos win in the Grey Cup and the attendance at the East Final is a sign of hope in terms of building the fan base. However, the failure of management to do much promotion of the team and the history in the 21st century of poor on-the-field performance following such a win raises questions about whether the opportunity will be seized.

[jerrym]

The best thing the Argos have going for them is the talent on this team, especially their defence. So if they sign many of their free agents, re-sign MBT or another good QB, and pick up to replace the losses that annually occur in free agency and retirement, they should be in good shape on the field.

[ArgoRavi]

I thought that this was a decent article by Josh Smith (believe it or not): https://3downnation.com/2022/12/09/h...-grey-cup-win/

Pinball explicitly talked about this when he became GM in 2019 - they need to have a contending team year in and year out over the long-term. He has been committed to building a team that won't just be one-year wonders.

[jerrym]

I agree that sustained success is what is needed and full credit to Pinball who has done a good job of recruiting, including attracting local talent, which makes a lot of sense when you are the biggest community by far in the country and many players like to play in their hometown, especially when CFL salaries don't match the NFL and other top leagues. However, a greater effort at marketing of the team is also needed, especially in such a competitive sports market. Whether that will ever happen is the question.

[Will]

It takes two to tango.

Sustained success on the field is important, however a commitment from the wider MLSE umbrella is also vital.

[gilthethrill]

It takes two to tango.

Sustained success on the field is important, however a commitment from the wider MLSE umbrella is also vital.

I am concerned MLSE will pursue a WNBA franchise which will make the Argo even less of a priority. A bigger concern is MLSE getting an expansion team in the NWSL and having another soccer tenant at BMO.

[Brian45]

It takes two to tango.

Sustained success on the field is important, however a commitment from the wider MLSE umbrella is also vital.

I found that they did a better job of this leading into the playoffs. The Leafs were wearing Argos sweaters going into game day, Nick Nurse had an Argos hat during a presser. Having the Grey Cup at the Leafs and Raptors games following the win was great too. All good moves and need to be sustained, this kind of stuff makes a big difference.

[bannedforlife]

I am concerned MLSE will pursue a WNBA franchise which will make the Argo even less of a priority. A bigger concern is MLSE getting an expansion team in the NWSL and having another soccer tenant at BMO.

["Issues"Mcgee]

MLSE needs to go hard on the advertising in April/May before the season. The rest of us need to show up and pray the Argos don't crash and burn at the beginning of the season, like they have before, after winning the Cup.

[Scooter McCray]

I am concerned MLSE will pursue a WNBA franchise which will make the Argo even less of a priority. A bigger concern is MLSE getting an expansion team in the NWSL and having another soccer tenant at BMO.

If MLSE prioritizes WNBA over the Argonauts then they truly don't care about making money, or enterprise value. That sport for 20 years has done nothing to generate attendance, viewership and without the NBA subsidizing it would have been out of business 19 years ago.

[Spindrift]

I remember 40-50k fans at Exhibition stadium, but I don’t think excellence on the field alone will bring those days back.

Having a contending team year after year certainly wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t think it really matters unless people are paying attention to the team and the league. Toronto is a market with a lot of entertainment choices, so I think the Argos have to offer something different to stand out from the other options.

I went to a bunch of Toronto Wolfpack games in their brief existence playing rugby as members of the English league. They played at Lamport Stadium from 2017 to 2020, but they went bankrupt during the pandemic. There are a lot of reasons behind the collapse (flying all the opposing teams over and paying for their accommodations was never really feasible), but they regularly drew a large, boisterous crowd to a bare-bones stadium. They had lower attendance than the Argos, but they drew 9-10k for a team that just appeared out of nowhere.

One of the things they did to draw fans was to break out of the standard sports model of cutting off alcohol sales after the third quarter/seventh inning, etc. They had a beer garden that kept selling after the game ended. When it was over, they brought out a DJ, and the players showered and joined the fans for a drink. It was a party atmosphere with games that usually started mid-day on the weekend and went into the early evening. They comped a lot of tickets, but people kept coming back, year after year. It was a different kind of experience than a Leafs or Jays game.

I remember getting on the streetcar after one game, and one of the players was riding home with his kids. It struck me at the time as being a lot like the CFL – the guys playing the game weren’t that much different than me (except they were four inches taller and had muscle instead of fat).

I’m not saying this will work at BMO Field, but I think MLSE needs something unusual like this to generate a buzz about the Argos. A lot of the Wolfpack fans came from downtown/midtown, etc. I’d love to see the Argos tap into this crowd and add 5k more fans to each game. Not sure how they could do it, but the Wolfpack seemed to find something, briefly, that created a unique sports experience in Toronto. If the Argos could do the same thing, it might help to vault them back into the consciousness of the GTA in a way that would make all their Grey Cup wins really resonate. They really have a remarkable record in championship games, but capitalizing on it seems pretty elusive.

Anyway, I hope MLSE can find something like what the Wolfpack tapped into. I think there’s some buzz out there – I’ve had more people comment on my Argos gear this year than any other – but whether that translates into more attendance next year is a pretty open question. I'll be back, one way or the other.

[Scooter McCray]

I remember 40-50k fans at Exhibition stadium, but I don’t think excellence on the field alone will bring those days back.

Having a contending team year after year certainly wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t think it really matters unless people are paying attention to the team and the league. Toronto is a market with a lot of entertainment choices, so I think the Argos have to offer something different to stand out from the other options.

I went to a bunch of Toronto Wolfpack games in their brief existence playing rugby as members of the English league. They played at Lamport Stadium from 2017 to 2020, but they went bankrupt during the pandemic. There are a lot of reasons behind the collapse (flying all the opposing teams over and paying for their accommodations was never really feasible), but they regularly drew a large, boisterous crowd to a bare-bones stadium. They had lower attendance than the Argos, but they drew 9-10k for a team that just appeared out of nowhere.

One of the things they did to draw fans was to break out of the standard sports model of cutting off alcohol sales after the third quarter/seventh inning, etc. They had a beer garden that kept selling after the game ended. When it was over, they brought out a DJ, and the players showered and joined the fans for a drink. It was a party atmosphere with games that usually started mid-day on the weekend and went into the early evening. They comped a lot of tickets, but people kept coming back, year after year. It was a different kind of experience than a Leafs or Jays game.

I remember getting on the streetcar after one game, and one of the players was riding home with his kids. It struck me at the time as being a lot like the CFL – the guys playing the game weren’t that much different than me (except they were four inches taller and had muscle instead of fat).

I’m not saying this will work at BMO Field, but I think MLSE needs something unusual like this to generate a buzz about the Argos. A lot of the Wolfpack fans came from downtown/midtown, etc. I’d love to see the Argos tap into this crowd and add 5k more fans to each game. Not sure how they could do it, but the Wolfpack seemed to find something, briefly, that created a unique sports experience in Toronto. If the Argos could do the same thing, it might help to vault them back into the consciousness of the GTA in a way that would make all their Grey Cup wins really resonate. They really have a remarkable record in championship games, but capitalizing on it seems pretty elusive.

Anyway, I hope MLSE can find something like what the Wolfpack tapped into. I think there’s some buzz out there – I’ve had more people comment on my Argos gear this year than any other – but whether that translates into more attendance next year is a pretty open question. I'll be back, one way or the other.

Great comments. MLSE need to do alot of things. They seem to be incapable (because their other franchises don't require effort to promote, and they don't know how to), or they don't want to.

[jerrym]

I remember 40-50k fans at Exhibition stadium, but I don’t think excellence on the field alone will bring those days back.

Having a contending team year after year certainly wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t think it really matters unless people are paying attention to the team and the league. Toronto is a market with a lot of entertainment choices, so I think the Argos have to offer something different to stand out from the other options.

I went to a bunch of Toronto Wolfpack games in their brief existence playing rugby as members of the English league. They played at Lamport Stadium from 2017 to 2020, but they went bankrupt during the pandemic. There are a lot of reasons behind the collapse (flying all the opposing teams over and paying for their accommodations was never really feasible), but they regularly drew a large, boisterous crowd to a bare-bones stadium. They had lower attendance than the Argos, but they drew 9-10k for a team that just appeared out of nowhere.

One of the things they did to draw fans was to break out of the standard sports model of cutting off alcohol sales after the third quarter/seventh inning, etc. They had a beer garden that kept selling after the game ended. When it was over, they brought out a DJ, and the players showered and joined the fans for a drink. It was a party atmosphere with games that usually started mid-day on the weekend and went into the early evening. They comped a lot of tickets, but people kept coming back, year after year. It was a different kind of experience than a Leafs or Jays game.

I remember getting on the streetcar after one game, and one of the players was riding home with his kids. It struck me at the time as being a lot like the CFL – the guys playing the game weren’t that much different than me (except they were four inches taller and had muscle instead of fat).

I’m not saying this will work at BMO Field, but I think MLSE needs something unusual like this to generate a buzz about the Argos. A lot of the Wolfpack fans came from downtown/midtown, etc. I’d love to see the Argos tap into this crowd and add 5k more fans to each game. Not sure how they could do it, but the Wolfpack seemed to find something, briefly, that created a unique sports experience in Toronto. If the Argos could do the same thing, it might help to vault them back into the consciousness of the GTA in a way that would make all their Grey Cup wins really resonate. They really have a remarkable record in championship games, but capitalizing on it seems pretty elusive.

Anyway, I hope MLSE can find something like what the Wolfpack tapped into. I think there’s some buzz out there – I’ve had more people comment on my Argos gear this year than any other – but whether that translates into more attendance next year is a pretty open question. I'll be back, one way or the other.

Welcome aboard and thanks for your comments. I do think you are right that the Argos need to do something to stand out. However, I'm not convinced selling alcohol until the end of the game is it. Rowdy drunks could scare off families with kids, who are the long-term future of any league and potentially a media problem if they get way out of hand.

[Spindrift]

Welcome aboard and thanks for your comments. I do think you are right that the Argos need to do something to stand out. However, I'm not convinced selling alcohol until the end of the game is it. Rowdy drunks could scare off families with kids, who are the long-term future of any league and potentially a media problem if they get way out of hand.

No, I don't think expanded alcohol sales would work as well at BMO Field. No one seemed to get very drunk at the Wolfpack games, but I'm not sure how that would translate to BMO. The layout doesn't offer the same opportunity as Lamport Stadium, for one thing. Anyway, I doubt MLSE would change their policy for the Argos when it's in step with the way the Leafs, Raptors, and TFC work, so it's kind of a moot point.

[paulwoods13]

One of the things they did to draw fans was to break out of the standard sports model of cutting off alcohol sales after the third quarter/seventh inning, etc. They had a beer garden that kept selling after the game ended. When it was over, they brought out a DJ, and the players showered and joined the fans for a drink. It was a party atmosphere with games that usually started mid-day on the weekend and went into the early evening. They comped a lot of tickets, but people kept coming back, year after year. It was a different kind of experience than a Leafs or Jays game.

This would be an interesting idea to try. Argos used to have players show up at Joe Badali's after games, and fans who attended loved the chance to interact with the players. Doing something like that on site, with continued food and beverage services in some sort of beer-garden atmosphere, could be a lot of fun. However, there might be blowback from the CFLPA. One of the few "wins" the PA has had in recent CBA negots is strict limits on how much time a team can control its players. Requiring guys to play a game, arrive early enough to warm up properly, etc., and also stay around for a few hours afterwards probably wouldn't come without a price. Still, cool idea.

[Spindrift]

This would be an interesting idea to try. Argos used to have players show up at Joe Badali's after games, and fans who attended loved the chance to interact with the players. Doing something like that on site, with continued food and beverage services in some sort of beer-garden atmosphere, could be a lot of fun. However, there might be blowback from the CFLPA. One of the few "wins" the PA has had in recent CBA negots is strict limits on how much time a team can control its players. Requiring guys to play a game, arrive early enough to warm up properly, etc., and also stay around for a few hours afterwards probably wouldn't come without a price. Still, cool idea.

If they could use some of the space around the stadium after 1pm starts, then it might be feasible. Maybe reopening the Shipyard or something similar after the game would work. Of course, this year's schedule is mostly evening games. I think there's just one in September that kicks off at one.

[Topshelf]

The CFL has a whole is in trouble. Even Regina has scores of empty seats.
This market simply will not buy into a minor league team. The NFL is a far bigger beast than it was 40 years ago when the Argos were getting huge crowds at the Ex.
No minor league teams do well in this market. TFC has a number of different things going for them, and MLSE just assumed wrongly that a move to BMO would put the Argos on par.
Now that said, there are solutions.
1. Free parking and tailgating - US style
2. Value menu entire game. Make it an affordable day out for families.
3. Free admission to the CNE game. Huge opportunity to grow a fan base. Even if you just allow free admission to the upper deck of the east stand (where there are no Season seats), you have thousands of people that peer through the fence that game. Why not invite them in?
Can also just hand out tickets at the gate for assigned seats. Give season seat holders a credit or some other incentive to make up for it.
The Grey Cup “parade” was downgraded from city hall to maple leafs square. There’s a long way to go to bring the fans back.

[Argo57]

The CFL has a whole is in trouble. Even Regina has scores of empty seats.
This market simply will not buy into a minor league team. The NFL is a far bigger beast than it was 40 years ago when the Argos were getting huge crowds at the Ex.
No minor league teams do well in this market. TFC has a number of different things going for them, and MLSE just assumed wrongly that a move to BMO would put the Argos on par.
Now that said, there are solutions.
1. Free parking and tailgating - US style
2. Value menu entire game. Make it an affordable day out for families.
3. Free admission to the CNE game. Huge opportunity to grow a fan base. Even if you just allow free admission to the upper deck of the east stand (where there are no Season seats), you have thousands of people that peer through the fence that game. Why not invite them in?
Can also just hand out tickets at the gate for assigned seats. Give season seat holders a credit or some other incentive to make up for it.
The Grey Cup “parade” was downgraded from city hall to maple leafs square. There’s a long way to go to bring the fans back.

I stopped reading at “minor league team”.

[bannedforlife]

I stopped reading at “minor league team”.

I stop reading when I know they are involved with TFC.

[OV Argo]

I stopped reading at “minor league team”.

Sadly, there's a whole generation or two of dupes who got sold that bill of goods and swallowed it hook, line & sinker; and oddly enough, you find a number of them on CFL "fan" forums (not many here though) where they are quite ready to trot out posts about how "minor league" the poor old, only in Canada, CFL is; especially compared to the almighty NFL that they have been taught to hero-worship.

Solutions ... ? Sorry, got nothing ... can only LMFAO